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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 07-11-2017, 08:53 AM   #1
Jim in CT
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Baby Charlie in England

You want to know why I am conservative and pro-life, look no further than Baby Charlie.

The parents of tiny Baby Charlie Gard have been given two days by the British court to submit "new and powerful evidence" that their son should be kept alive. Otherwise the government will withdraw his life support.

Have these bureaucrats no conscience? No decency? No empathy? No mercy?

How's this for "evidence:" HE'S THEIR SON. AND HE IS A SACRED, UNIQUE, PRECIOUS, UNREPEATABLE, AND DIGNIFIED HUMAN BEING

Bastards.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:28 AM   #2
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it takes a village
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:29 AM   #3
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I am neither conservative nor liberal. There is a big grey area that exists between the two in which my belief system lies, and it's very individualistic. I agree with your take on baby Charlie.

That being said, what are your thoughts on capital punishment ?
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:44 AM   #4
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I am neither conservative nor liberal. There is a big grey area that exists between the two in which my belief system lies, and it's very individualistic. I agree with your take on baby Charlie.

That being said, what are your thoughts on capital punishment ?
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An extremely fair question. I am opposed to capital punishment, my personal belief is that life is too sacred and special. But this is an issue where I feel both sides can make a compelling argument.
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:21 PM   #5
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If you think every life is so prescious, I'm curious what you think about killing obama care. There will be millions of people who get the boot from health care and even more with pre existing conditions who won't qualify any more.

I love that saying- pro lifers stop caring about the quality of your life the minute you are born.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:04 AM   #6
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this issue has zero to do with healthcare , or the Government wanting to pay .. or Pro life

its about the law it was re newed recently saying the welfare of the child was to be considered over anything else

When parents do not agree about a child’s future treatment, it is standard legal process to ask the courts to make a decision.
Mr Justice Francis said doctors could stop providing life-support treatment after analysing the case at a hearing in the Family Division of the High Court in London

He concluded that life-support treatment should end and said a move to a palliative care regime would be in Charlie's best interests.

This is a sad case for all sad that the baby has this sickness sad that people dont see quality of a future life as a consideration for Charlie or his parents , Sad that the Parents must Face theses choices of do I let him go or do I go my whole life with an unanswered question Would it have worked ? Each of us will look at this thru a color lens .. but to say its a right or wrong choice . I am to far away to say

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7828776.html

Last edited by wdmso; 07-12-2017 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:40 AM   #7
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I love that saying- pro lifers stop caring about the quality of your life the minute you are born.

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this is true...the only reason pro-lifers want more babies to survive pregnancy is so that they will have more people to kill and make ill...
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:41 AM   #8
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this issue has zero to do with healthcare , or the Government wanting to pay .. or Pro life

its about the law it was re newed recently saying the welfare of the child was to be considered over anything else
wel·fare

noun
the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
synonyms: well-being, health, comfort, security, safety, protection, prosperity, success, fortune;
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:36 AM   #9
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If you think every life is so prescious, I'm curious what you think about killing obama care. There will be millions of people who get the boot from health care and even more with pre existing conditions who won't qualify any more.

I love that saying- pro lifers stop caring about the quality of your life the minute you are born.
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I'm sure you love the saying people like me stop caring when the baby is born. I'd like to see you support that with data or anything resembling fact. I can come up with a saying that " the earth is flat". Doesn't make it so. Google the study posted in the New York Times ( notca conservative rag, right?) called " who really cares". It compared charitable giving of liberals and conservatives. Read that, and then tell me what you think of your beloved saying.

Healthcare - I'm no expert. But when liberals claim that millions of Americans will die of Obamacare is repealed, I ask myself, "why wasn't I stepping over dead bodies in the streets, all those years before Obamacare came along?".

If the GOP wants to repeal it, they have a moral obligation to replace it with something at least as good, hopefully better. Fair enough?

As usual I answered you directly. Show me the same courtesy, google that study and tell me if you think conservatives are heartless tightwads
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:38 AM   #10
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this issue has zero to do with healthcare , or the Government wanting to pay .. or Pro life

its about the law it was re newed recently saying the welfare of the child was to be considered over anything else

When parents do not agree about a child’s future treatment, it is standard legal process to ask the courts to make a decision.
Mr Justice Francis said doctors could stop providing life-support treatment after analysing the case at a hearing in the Family Division of the High Court in London

He concluded that life-support treatment should end and said a move to a palliative care regime would be in Charlie's best interests.

This is a sad case for all sad that the baby has this sickness sad that people dont see quality of a future life as a consideration for Charlie or his parents , Sad that the Parents must Face theses choices of do I let him go or do I go my whole life with an unanswered question Would it have worked ? Each of us will look at this thru a color lens .. but to say its a right or wrong choice . I am to far away to say

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7828776.html
So the parents desperately want him to be treated. Hospitals in the us and the Vatican have agreed to treat him, but the British government won't allow its subject- a baby- to leave the country to seek treatment. And you have no opinion about that. Nothing to do with being pro life? The hell it doesn't.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:19 AM   #11
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When parents do not agree about a child’s future treatment, it is standard legal process to ask the courts to make a decision.
Is that the case here? I thought both parents desperately wanted to get any treatment available.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Is that the case here? I thought both parents desperately wanted to get any treatment available.
Pretty sure he means when the "parents" as a pair don't agree with the decision of the hospital / doctors / centralized health care consortium

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Old 07-12-2017, 09:24 AM   #13
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I love that saying- pro lifers stop caring about the quality of your life the minute you are born.
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Tell me what you think of that saying, after reading this...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/op...21kristof.html

The study shows that even though conservatives are poorer on average than liberals (which comes as a surprise to many people), they give more money and time to charity, than liberals. Not much more, but the point is, there is nothing to support your beloved saying. If you consider the role that religion plays with liberals and conservatives, this makes perfect sense.

What do you think?
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:27 AM   #14
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It's still ok to be pro-life, anti death penalty, and pro American Care Act, right?

I get equally entertained and disgusted by the sweeping generalizations applied to anyone who dares disagree with any political point.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:28 AM   #15
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Pretty sure he means when the "parents" as a pair don't agree with the decision of the hospital / doctors / centralized health care consortium
Thanks, I bet you are correct.

Fine, the parents cannot force the hospital to do that which they don't want to do.

But there are other hospitals (in the US and the Vatican) willing to treat this kid, for Christ's sake. All the British have to do, is agree to let him go. And they won't.

Can you IMAGINE how that makes the parents feel?

What would you do in that situation, John? All the British have to do is agree to let this kid go. And they won't, which is denying him a chance, however small it may be, at life.

Trump should send in Seal Team 6 to get that kid out of that goddamn hospital.

I cannot believe that a western nation is taking this position, and that people aren't outraged.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:30 AM   #16
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It's still ok to be pro-life, anti death penalty, and pro American Care Act, right?

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Sure.

But I don't know if you can be "pro life", and not be horrified at what the British government is doing to this family. I guess that's the difference between being a citizen (where our rights are endowed to us by God) and being a subject (where the state tells us what our rights are).
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:46 PM   #17
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So the parents desperately want him to be treated. Hospitals in the us and the Vatican have agreed to treat him, but the British government won't allow its subject- a baby- to leave the country to seek treatment. And you have no opinion about that. Nothing to do with being pro life? The hell it doesn't.
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Your issue is with the Law its an english law... read the article on the link it explains a lot

So who's suffering to you side with the parents or the Child.. since you would like me to choose I will ..

This child is living which currently he cant do on his own,, and if by chance he could breath on his own after this treatment if it even worked .. what life would he have sure he would be alive only clinically .. I would not want my child to suffer I dont doubt their love of their child but allowing a child to just be alive is a selfish act no different then a Child wanting there 98 year old parent to be a full code in a nursing home (All live saving measures) These are all hard choices for anyone to make no one wants to lose a love one .. I fault no one for their choices in theses matters .
But for me I would say my goodby be at their side until they passed and never forget and life will continue hard at times but it will continue
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:18 PM   #18
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What if the baby is gay or a Muslim ? Will the Christian pro life movement support him then?

Deep thoughts.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:34 PM   #19
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What if the baby is gay or a Muslim ? Will the Christian pro life movement support him then?

Deep thoughts.
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Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 07-13-2017 at 07:02 AM..
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:57 AM   #20
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Sure.

But I don't know if you can be "pro life", and not be horrified at what the British government is doing to this family. I guess that's the difference between being a citizen (where our rights are endowed to us by God) and being a subject (where the state tells us what our rights are).
Did I mistakenly type somewhere that this situation is not horrifying? If so, I apologize.
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