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Old 11-21-2017, 10:27 AM   #1
detbuch
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Trump compared to Charles Manson

I find this Newsweek article to be very interesting, and very revealing of something other than the obvious intent. Anyone care to comment?

Google: How Murderer Charles Manson and Donald ... - newsweek.com

Last edited by detbuch; 11-21-2017 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:07 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
I find this Newsweek article to be very interesting, and very revealing of something other than the obvious intent. Anyone care to comment?

Google: How Murderer Charles Manson and Donald ... - newsweek.com
Sure I will comment.
Trump is not Hitler.
Trump is NOT Charles Manson.

Trump is a charismatic narcissist who knows how to talk to people and sell them without saying anything (or anything true). You might say Obama had shades of this as well, he was a very good orator and connected with people in an emotional way that other candidates hadn't (some of which was probably b/c of race, others was 'hope and change'. Most good politicians probably also share similar speaking skills mentioned in the article.

Trump knows his base of the voters will stick with him, so he plays to that. Hence his 'I could shoot someone on 5th Ave' comment.

If you do not think that political scientists, sociologists and political strategists will not look to and study his campaign style and language and in some ways try to emulate it, you are mistaken. People will be studying this election for a long, long time...


From the article (my bold added)
“A charismatic leader knows how to speak to people in a way that will emotionally engage those people,” Smaller told Newsweek.

Smaller is clear that he does not believe President Donald Trump is similar to the convicted killer, or that their followers have any shared beliefs or characteristics, but he did say we can look to the current president to see how language is used to form a bond with followers.
“Our current president speaks in an emotional or affective way to large numbers of people in our country who feel a kind of alienation or disconnection from the government,” he said. “They feel very responded to and become his political base.”

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:14 PM   #3
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Trump is following the Mussolini play book. Youd be surprised how many Americans are fascists and have no idea what that word even means.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:23 PM   #4
detbuch
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Sure I will comment.
Trump is not Hitler.
Trump is NOT Charles Manson.

Trump is a charismatic narcissist who knows how to talk to people and sell them without saying anything (or anything true). You might say Obama had shades of this as well, he was a very good orator and connected with people in an emotional way that other candidates hadn't (some of which was probably b/c of race, others was 'hope and change'. Most good politicians probably also share similar speaking skills mentioned in the article.

Trump knows his base of the voters will stick with him, so he plays to that. Hence his 'I could shoot someone on 5th Ave' comment.

If you do not think that political scientists, sociologists and political strategists will not look to and study his campaign style and language and in some ways try to emulate it, you are mistaken. People will be studying this election for a long, long time...


From the article (my bold added)
“A charismatic leader knows how to speak to people in a way that will emotionally engage those people,” Smaller told Newsweek.

Smaller is clear that he does not believe President Donald Trump is similar to the convicted killer, or that their followers have any shared beliefs or characteristics, but he did say we can look to the current president to see how language is used to form a bond with followers.
“Our current president speaks in an emotional or affective way to large numbers of people in our country who feel a kind of alienation or disconnection from the government,” he said. “They feel very responded to and become his political base.”
I like your analysis. It is very astute. But I don't think it goes quite far enough in the direction you are taking. That last quote you end with contains the germ for an even greater connection to the emotional and affective way Trump or Manson supposedly speak or spoke. Trump's way can be connected to the way the left, rather than the classical liberal way of the past, has spoken.

Many of us have said that Trump is throwing the left's way right back at them. He is, subliminally, the left's worst nightmare. He is that mirror reflection, in methodology, of who they are. The left has to shatter that mirror, and make him out to be some out of touch anomaly that is dangerous to our survival as a democracy. And that mirror has to be isolated from its larger connection and destroyed before that connection is realized. Before it is realized that Trump's supposed danger is synonymous to theirs.

Also telling in that last quote you cited ("a kind of alienation or disconnection from the government,”) is exactly how Trump uses that alienation in the same way that the left does. The left equates government to be separate and above the people. For the left, alienation from the government is a consequence of government not favoring the people, or some over others. So when the leftists give favors to the larger class of people who numerically control the election, “They feel very responded to and become his [the left's] political base.” Trump's political populism is all about that very thing. In classical liberalism (conservatism in its most basic sense, not Republican Progressivism) the people ARE the government. There is no separation or alienation unless the government separates itself, becomes stronger, superior, to the people. The separation occurs when the government dictates, from a loftier position, what is good and proper for the people, in spite of any wishes the people desire expressed by vote.

This separation of the people from government is the age old separation practiced by all past authoritarian types of government. Authoritarianism solves the separation anxiety by a bond of supposed trust, of affection and favoring of and for the people by giving them what they need. So separation, in authoritarian systems, is government not attending, as the great administrator, to all the needs of the people. In classical liberalism, the people attend to their own personal needs. And the government attends only to those needs the people assign to it the responsibility to do so.

Smaller warns us against falling for the language that leads to “the large amount of people in our country who feel alienated and disconnected and looking to follow somebody,” yet he overlooks that following "somebody" is not different than following a separate group of somebody's. That is, a group that separates government from the people. As the left does.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:00 PM   #5
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Trump is following the Mussolini play book. Youd be surprised how many Americans are fascists and have no idea what that word even means.
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If Trump is a fascist, can you explain why he lets every TV station except one, spend several hours a day, attacking everything he does?

If he's a fascist, he's not a very good fascist. A right wing fascist wouldn't allow the attacks he lives with. He's a thin-skinned jerk, maybe he learned that from his predecessor.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:09 PM   #6
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If Trump is a fascist, can you explain why he lets every TV station except one, spend several hours a day, attacking everything he does?
he's a "Compassionate Fascist"
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:09 PM   #7
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Trump is following the Mussolini play book. Youd be surprised how many Americans are fascists and have no idea what that word even means.
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started drinking a couple days early huh?
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
If Trump is a fascist, can you explain why he lets every TV station except one, spend several hours a day, attacking everything he does?

If he's a fascist, he's not a very good fascist. A right wing fascist wouldn't allow the attacks he lives with. He's a thin-skinned jerk, maybe he learned that from his predecessor.
Hes pandering to the fascists.
Especially the uneducated fascists.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:13 PM   #9
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If anyone can be compared to Charles Manson its Hillary Clinton.
Both left a trail of dead bodies !
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:22 PM   #10
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If anyone can be compared to Charles Manson its Hillary Clinton.
Both left a trail of dead bodies !
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Warning! Fake news alert! Completely fabricated.

My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:22 PM   #11
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If anyone can be compared to Charles Manson its Hillary Clinton.
Both left a trail of dead bodies !
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I rest my case.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:26 PM   #12
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If Trump is a fascist, can you explain why he lets every TV station except one, spend several hours a day, attacking everything he does?
The only reason he lets them is because of the constitution and balance of power. He has said/tweeted time and time about revoking licenses and the sort. Fascist intent and promotion of fascist intent differ from the ability to carry out those intents unchecked.

My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:25 PM   #13
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Congratulations Gentlemen, you have successful created the stupidest &$!@ing thread to ever grace the political forum. Take time to bask in the glow of a job well done.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:41 PM   #14
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Congratulations Gentlemen, you have successful created the stupidest &$!@ing thread to ever grace the political forum. Take time to bask in the glow of a job well done.
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How many beers ? 5?
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:55 PM   #15
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:56 PM   #16
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Maybe after 5 this might improve.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:32 PM   #17
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The only reason he lets them is because of the constitution and balance of power. He has said/tweeted time and time about revoking licenses and the sort. Fascist intent and promotion of fascist intent differ from the ability to carry out those intents unchecked.
"The only reason he lets them is because of the constitution and balance of power. "

Agreed. Which means, he's not a fascist. he might be following the constitution begrudgingly, but he's following it. That's about the exact opposite of a fascist.

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Trump is a charismatic narcissist who knows how to talk to people .
Agreed. But there are a lot of charismatic narcissists out there. There is a reason that Newsweek picked Charles Manson to compare him to. And this is why Newsweek sold in 2010 for the whopping price of $1, and whoever bought it, got fleeced.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:30 AM   #18
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Congratulations Gentlemen, you have successful created the stupidest &$!@ing thread to ever grace the political forum. Take time to bask in the glow of a job well done.
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I got to think of something to say so I can bring this thread up
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:13 AM   #19
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Manson is dead, finally we don't have to pay to feed, cloth and provide for that motherfer; that is the good news. Trump is an entirely difference subject, but to compare him to Manson is a stretch at best.

Trump does believe he is the great white knight, claiming to have rescue America from the depths, so there are some similarities. During his latest question and answer session with the press on the way to "work" in is resort, he is apparently personally responsible for the lowest unemployment rates since the 60's, the stock market rise and the USA military power.....all in less than a year.....I bow to his greatness.

I only hope he doesn't develop carpel tunnel in his thumbs rendering him silent on twitter, I don't know what America will do without his words of wisdom.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:02 AM   #20
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Manson took impressionable people convinced them that his cause was just and they carried out his plan

Trump took impressionable people convinced them that his cause was just and they carried out his plan

neither actual were directly involved

Manson owned his involvement

Trump only own's anything if he can make himself look good .. anything else is some one else's Fault

they both attempted to start something by blaming some one else. with the same idea MAWA

Last edited by wdmso; 11-23-2017 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:17 AM   #21
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Gobble gobble
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:20 AM   #22
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Trump took impressionable people convinced them that his cause was just and they carried out his plan
I think you have this backwards.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:35 AM   #23
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This is easy. One is your President ,the other is dead. Say it over and over..Trump is your President. But I'm uneducated too and I won't go assigning labels to those that don't agree with my opinions. Have a great day gentlemen because when you wake up tomorrow Trump will still be your President.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:06 PM   #24
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Manson took impressionable people convinced them that his cause was just and they carried out his plan

Trump took impressionable people convinced them that his cause was just and they carried out his plan

neither actual were directly involved

Manson owned his involvement

Trump only own's anything if he can make himself look good .. anything else is some one else's Fault

they both attempted to start something by blaming some one else. with the same idea MAWA
I rest my case.....
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:18 AM   #25
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I rest my case.....
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You couldn't have done more to make your case. Wow.
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