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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
12-12-2017, 03:29 PM
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Spence seems to think a lot less of Israelis than Trump.
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I'd wager Trump knows little about Israel other than having some Jewish friends in New York.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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12-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Having an ally in the Middle East, when we are at war with jihadists, doesn’t help us in any way that you see? You don’t think we share intelligence with Israel?
Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, that’s not complicated. What if next, the jihadistsbdecude they hate music? Do we pretend there’s no such thing as music?
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they were already our ally !! and they haven't let us use their air bases to attack theses Jihadist why do you think that is ?? for the same reason the US has steered clear of the Jerusalem question for decades
Whats your take on settlements legit or just land grab like we did with the American Indians |
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12-12-2017, 07:02 PM
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#63
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
If memory serves me correctly the city has had many owners over the past 3 millennium.
The 1947 protocol intended to keep the city under International control. When Israel announced all of Jerusalem to be their capital in 1980 it was found to be a violation of international law.
It's complicated, but I don't think you can just issue a mandate and expect everyone to follow.
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It is complicated, however the open status of Jerusalem has been under pressure due to minor things like invasions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
they were already our ally !! and they haven't let us use their air bases to attack theses Jihadist why do you think that is ?? for the same reason the US has steered clear of the Jerusalem question for decades
Whats your take on settlements legit or just land grab like we did with the American Indians
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Did Israel grab the land? Or did they not relinquish it after each and every attack on them? |
~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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12-13-2017, 04:54 PM
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
It is complicated, however the open status of Jerusalem has been under pressure due to minor things like invasions...
Did Israel grab the land? Or did they not relinquish it after each and every attack on them?
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settlements are a land grab thats clear as day
keeping land after a conflict . called occupied territories please note the area around jerusalem |
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12-13-2017, 08:48 PM
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Is your suggestion to give the land back after a conflict? Please elaborate. Tell your s what you would do?
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12-13-2017, 08:52 PM
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,443
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Israel has also removed settlements and offered backnprevious strips of land. It didn’t make anyone stop hating them.
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12-14-2017, 04:59 AM
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Is your suggestion to give the land back after a conflict? Please elaborate. Tell your s what you would do?
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Thats what the peace process was designed to hammer out
What land have we kept after a conflict .. |
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12-14-2017, 05:03 AM
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Israel has also removed settlements and offered backnprevious strips of land. It didn’t make anyone stop hating them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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build 10 remove one.. I love your reasoning
3\4 the arab world hate them for what they do.. the rest have always hated them for political reason and history ..
in the USA 3\4 love them for political reasons the rest clearly see what they do and dont give them a pass and the right says we hate them |
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12-14-2017, 06:48 AM
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#69
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
What land have we kept after a conflict ..
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Guam |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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12-14-2017, 08:05 AM
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#70
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Thats what the peace process was designed to hammer out
What land have we kept after a conflict ..
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The Thirteen Colonies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
build 10 remove one.. I love your reasoning
3\4 the arab world hate them for what they do.. the rest have always hated them for political reason and history ..
in the USA 3\4 love them for political reasons the rest clearly see what they do and dont give them a pass and the right says we hate them
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The Arab world hates them because it is popular with the little guy and because Religion - not politics. Well not fair because for many Arabs Politics IS Religion.
Some of us also like the Underdog, an American thing, and the Israelis have been the poster-child Underdog for 4000 years. |
~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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12-14-2017, 11:24 AM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
The Arab world hates them because it is popular with the little guy and because Religion - not politics. Well not fair because for many Arabs Politics IS Religion.
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Jews and Muslims have lived side by side peacefully in the region through long stretches...it's all about politics and power first, religion second. |
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12-14-2017, 11:48 AM
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#72
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,454
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I find it interesting that people who support the nation of Israel based on historic claims, do not support Native Americans claim to sovereignty when they controlled all of the New World 500 years ago.
Palestinians historically were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews.
It is a long and complicated history and Jerusalem has been in the possession of many rulers. The British plan of dividing up the middle east into separate entities has not worked very well yet, has it? It will be hard to change because fortunes rest on the outcome and no one wants to lose their share.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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12-14-2017, 02:25 PM
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
I find it interesting that people who support the nation of Israel based on historic claims, do not support Native Americans claim to sovereignty when they controlled all of the New World 500 years ago.
The "New World" was not a nation 500 years ago. The inhabited sections were populated by different tribes, not one people, who at various times and places, fought with each other. One of the first efforts at some form of unity was by the Iroquois, which by no means included all "Native Americans," and was an effort in response to European settlers. I suppose, restoring all of the "New World" to the various tribes, what is left of them, would be the end of the U.S. Perhaps the U.N. could settle the matter for us.
Palestinians historically were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews.
It is a long and complicated history and Jerusalem has been in the possession of many rulers. The British plan of dividing up the middle east into separate entities has not worked very well yet, has it? It will be hard to change because fortunes rest on the outcome and no one wants to lose their share.
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Records seem to show that there was no such ethnicity as Palestinian.
Here's a bit of history, probably from a Jewish perspective, but open to debunking by anyone who wants to give it a try:
http://www.indaweb.com/oil/editorial...service01l.htm |
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12-14-2017, 03:54 PM
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#74
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,454
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One would need to remember that Native Americans had a different view of the world that was not based on owning property but living as part of the world around them.
Didn't work out well for them, did it?
There is no more an ethnicity of Palestinians than there is of residents of the United States, Americans.
That link is very much to a current Jewish perspective IMHO.
But what I said was Palestine was "were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews"
Look at it from a much longer period of history like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
for Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
And this for Jerusalem |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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12-14-2017, 04:38 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Guam
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and who did they take it from see how this goes |
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12-14-2017, 06:06 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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They took if from the Spanish Kingdom who relinquished the territory without incident.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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12-14-2017, 06:13 PM
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#77
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
They took if from the Spanish Kingdom who relinquished the territory without incident.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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12-14-2017, 06:45 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
One would need to remember that Native Americans had a different view of the world that was not based on owning property but living as part of the world around them.
That makes it difficult, then, to compare notions of Native American "sovereignty" regarding property, to land disputes between Israelis and "Palestinians."
Didn't work out well for them, did it?
Perhaps, there is a lesson for us there regarding borders and immigration.
There is no more an ethnicity of Palestinians than there is of residents of the United States, Americans.
Agreed. Israel seems to be far closer to the identity mix that comprises the U.S. Not so much similarity of identity mix in the Palestinian territories.
That link is very much to a current Jewish perspective IMHO.
I agree with that. But is it incorrect?
But what I said was Palestine was "were the residents of Palestine and comprised a number of tribes, one of which became known as the Jews"
In that case, then the Jews there are also Palestinian. And so would be the Christians. Sounds like civil war among Palestinians.
Look at it from a much longer period of history like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
for Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem
And this for Jerusalem |
That history decided sovereignties by war. Maybe that's what going on there now. |
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12-16-2017, 04:43 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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its hard to to speak about issues in modern times when people want to time travel back to May 10, 1898. to justify seizing land after a conflict in the 60's
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12-16-2017, 04:53 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,044
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TO be absolutely honest using the same logic, this could be the map of the US. How different would it be if some more powerful people, forced us return the land? We have been here only a few hundred years.
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12-16-2017, 05:31 PM
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Beans
TO be absolutely honest using the same logic, this could be the map of the US. How different would it be if some more powerful people, forced us return the land? We have been here only a few hundred years.
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makes a pretty solid great case for strong secure borders and no illegal immigration does't it? |
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12-18-2017, 05:06 PM
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
makes a pretty solid great case for strong secure borders and no illegal immigration does't it?
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Indeed it does. LOL |
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12-20-2017, 04:45 PM
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,456
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Jerusalem UN vote: Trump threatens US aid recipients
UN Nikki Haley warned member states that President Trump had asked her to report on "who voted against us" 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42431095 |
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12-20-2017, 07:58 PM
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
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Par for the course. Less concerned with policy as much as retribution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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12-20-2017, 10:55 PM
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,725
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How dare you not give us money! We won't stand for such a threat!!
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12-20-2017, 11:00 PM
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Par for the course. Less concerned with policy as much as retribution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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He is vindictive but I am not sure where you drew this opinion from. His policy is not exactly choosing the easy road. Your insider must have told you about Trumps priorities.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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12-20-2017, 11:01 PM
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Par for the course. Less concerned with policy as much as retribution.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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What a joke. We are the laughing stock of the world thanks to Cheeto.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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12-21-2017, 08:16 AM
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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We have been the laughing stock for a long time. We just aren't the suckers we once were. Don't despair, it won't stop the rest of the world from trying to bend us over and take advantage.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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12-21-2017, 11:15 AM
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
He is vindictive but I am not sure where you drew this opinion from. His policy is not exactly choosing the easy road. Your insider must have told you about Trumps priorities.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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It's from watching his behavior.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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12-21-2017, 12:17 PM
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#90
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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No argument here
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