IG Report

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, the list was (supposed to be) the world, NK is part of it.

I mean you compared us to China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia with that list. Is that who you wish to compare us to? Do you think our criminals would get a fairer shake in those countries than here?

The US averages 35 executions a year, China over a 1000....maybe therein lies the answer. I mean they average a 1/4 less incarcerations than the US, but over 30 times as many executions.

It is actually really simple.
I don't actually what other countries do, I care what we do.
We have a higher rate of incarceration and recidivism than anyone else in the world.
In the last decade it has had a downward trend but for 40 years before that consistently went up.
Before the 70s it was a consistent percentage pretty common to the rest of the developed world.
If you think that it is worth $400 from every citizen of the US to incarcerate people and are willing to pay more each year, that is your choice. Remember you are paying that to provide the best training for criminals and paying more for it than a college education. I think it could be improved on and other countries have some alternatives that could be considered.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It is actually really simple.
I don't actually what other countries do, I care what we do.
We have a higher rate of incarceration and recidivism than anyone else in the world.
In the last decade it has had a downward trend but for 40 years before that consistently went up.
Before the 70s it was a consistent percentage pretty common to the rest of the developed world.
If you think that it is worth $400 from every citizen of the US to incarcerate people and are willing to pay more each year, that is your choice. Remember you are paying that to provide the best training for criminals and paying more for it than a college education. I think it could be improved on and other countries have some alternatives that could be considered.

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

You could argue that our moral compass is broken, leading many to break our laws. But that doesn't mean our criminal justice system is broken.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You could argue that our moral compass is broken, leading many to break our laws. But that doesn't mean our criminal justice system is broken.

If the goal is to make sure people are punished, then it works perfectly and crime increasing is an unfortunate but necessary byproduct.
I would assume you have never made a bad choice, and if you have luck has been on your side or you could afford good representation.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If the goal is to make sure people are punished, then it works perfectly and crime increasing is an unfortunate but necessary byproduct.
I would assume you have never made a bad choice, and if you have luck has been on your side or you could afford good representation.

"If the goal is to make sure people are punished"

HOW ABOUT IF THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT DANGEROUS PEOPLE FROM HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE? Has that aspect ever crossed your mind? You sure don't seem to give that any consideration.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"If the goal is to make sure people are punished"

HOW ABOUT IF THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT DANGEROUS PEOPLE FROM HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE?

that's pretty racist

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

that's pretty racist

That's me, always wearing a white sheet.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"If the goal is to make sure people are punished"

HOW ABOUT IF THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT DANGEROUS PEOPLE FROM HURTING INNOCENT PEOPLE? Has that aspect ever crossed your mind? You sure don't seem to give that any consideration.

If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything for more than a few years.
There are no absolutes in life, you can no more stop crime with prison than by having more guns.
Do you think all criminals are inherently evil? And all people who have not been charged with a crime good?
I didn’t say we should not have jails, but that we should use them judiciously.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything for more than a few years.
There are no absolutes in life, you can no more stop crime with prison than by having more guns.
Do you think all criminals are inherently evil? And all people who have not been charged with a crime good?
I didn’t say we should not have jails, but that we should use them judiciously.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything for more than a few years."

How many people can a bad person hurt in "a few years"? A lot. You haven't given this much thought. Put down the Kool Aid for ten seconds, and think.

"Do you think all criminals are inherently evil?"

No. Some are unlucky.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If with our current system we have 75% recidivism how does that stop anything

I think we need far fewer prisons


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

shouldn't you ask the recidivists?

if the US has 655 people incarcerated per 100,000 and 75% are recidivists...the other 99,345 are some how navigating life without incarceration for the most part, even poor and minorities....I guess reducing the number of prisons and the ability to incarcerate would be a great way to reduce the number of incarcerated and get to your magic number of acceptable incarcerations despite the actual crime being committed and "recitivated"....

???
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom) 470
Bahamas 438
Seychelles 437

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question would be "Do they deserve to be there?" If they are breaking laws and are being sentenced to prison because of their bad choices, then there isn't really anything that's "Broken".

Or has policy helped put them there? The War on Drugs has had a massive impact on incarceration of minorities and many argue it was a racially motivated to begin with.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Or has policy helped put them there? The War on Drugs has had a massive impact on incarceration of minorities and many argue it was a racially motivated to begin with.

Yes or No, Did they or didn't they break the law?

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes or No, Did they or didn't they break the law?

It's not a yes or no question.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

It's not a yes or no question.

Yes, yes it is.

People don’t just walk down the street, slip on a banana peel, and ooooops land in prison.

They break the law, get arrested, go to trial, are found guilty, and get sentenced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes, yes it is.

People don’t just walk down the street, slip on a banana peel, and ooooops land in prison.

True, not if you're white. At least much less likely.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes, yes it is.

People don’t just walk down the street, slip on a banana peel, and ooooops land in prison.

They break the law, get arrested, go to trial, are found guilty, and get sentenced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They go to trial, where they have due process, they have an attorney, and there is a significant burden that gets met before anyone goes to prison. It ain't perfect, but it's the best system there is.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Yes or No, Did they or didn't they break the law?

The asylum seekers, no.
The undocumented/illegals, yes.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

The asylum seekers, no.
The undocumented/illegals, yes.

I think he was talking about any minority ever busted on a drug charge.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think he was talking about any minority ever busted on a drug charge.

Way to bring race into the conversation.

What’s a matter, was I making to much sense and you went for the usual trump card......RACIST!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

The asylum seekers, no.
The undocumented/illegals, yes.

I agree, asylum seekers usually ask 1st
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device