more nothing burgers

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's true. But unlike Obama's stimulus package which also didn't come close to paying for itself, the tax cuts are at least putting a few bucks in our pockets, and putting more people back to work.


Apple announced 20,000 new jobs as a result of the tax cuts. Which companies did anything remotely like that, as a result of Obama's stimulus bill? His favorite, Solyndra, which doesn't exist anymore?

You always get lost in But Obama
Obama's worked better than Bush's
Trump didn't start out in a hole
The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits, Tariffs, Limiting political speech, Anti NATO

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You always get lost in But Obama
Obama's worked better than Bush's
Trump didn't start out in a hole
The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits, Tariffs, Limiting political speech, Anti NATO

"You always get lost in But Obama"

And instead of telling me that I'm wrong when I point out hypocrisy, all you can do is say that there's no reason to go back to Obama. You can't make me wrong (because I'm clearly not wrong), so you"want to change the subject. Doesn't work that way.

"Obama's worked better than Bush's "

You might be right. See? Its possible to admit the other side is right.

"Trump didn't start out in a hole"

No he didn't. But the lower unemployment is, the more difficult it is, to get it lower. Same with the stock market. But the fact is (whether you hate it or not), unemployment is lower, and the stock market is higher, than when Trump took office.

Obama gets good marks from me on handling the economy. So does Trump. I can say that about both men, because I am not bound by partisanship, but motivated by truth.

"The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits"

Not until Bush jr.

"Limiting political speech"

Let me get this straight. You are claiming that the GOP wants to silence those on the other side? No irony there, just ask Ben Shapiro or Ann Coulter.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"You always get lost in But Obama"

And instead of telling me that I'm wrong when I point out hypocrisy, all you can do is say that there's no reason to go back to Obama. You can't make me wrong (because I'm clearly not wrong), so you"want to change the subject. Doesn't work that way.
I don't see where I am being hypocritical by being concerned about the budget and the deficit, your typical answer is whatabout which only deflects from the issue being discussed, what evidence have you seen that the tax cuts are producing longterm economic gains? The things i see are not good

"Obama's worked better than Bush's "

You might be right. See? Its possible to admit the other side is right.

"Trump didn't start out in a hole"

No he didn't. But the lower unemployment is, the more difficult it is, to get it lower. Same with the stock market. But the fact is (whether you hate it or not), unemployment is lower, and the stock market is higher, than when Trump took office.

Obama gets good marks from me on handling the economy. So does Trump. I can say that about both men, because I am not bound by partisanship, but motivated by truth.

"The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits"

Not until Bush jr.

"Limiting political speech"

Let me get this straight. You are claiming that the GOP wants to silence those on the other side? No irony there, just ask Ben Shapiro or Ann Coulter.

The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits, Tariffs, Limiting political speech, Anti NATO until Baby Donny Bonespur
You have a short memory, this was your comment in another thread
"Stupid move, with awful optics, by a petty man. Even Obama, also a vindictive thin-skinned baby, never went this far.

Not a good month for Trump..."

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits, Tariffs, Limiting political speech, Anti NATO until Baby Donny Bonespur
You have a short memory, this was your comment in another thread
"Stupid move, with awful optics, by a petty man. Even Obama, also a vindictive thin-skinned baby, never went this far.

Not a good month for Trump..."

"I don't see where I am being hypocritical "

I didn't mean you specifically, but liberals in general. All of their concerns flip flop depending on who is POTUS, there's no principled convictions there.

"your typical answer is whatabout "

I think I only go there when the hypocrisy is laughable. That's not my "typical" answer, my typical answer is to point to actual empirical evidence.

Not sure what you mean by my short memory. I said it wasn't a good month for Trump, he acted stupidly, and I stand by that. I still like much of what he's doing.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You always get lost in But Obama
Obama's worked better than Bush's
Trump didn't start out in a hole
The republican Platform has never been Higher Deficits, Tariffs, Limiting political speech, Anti NATO

he loves to leave out facts and big picture

the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.[16] By 2014 the loan program had wiped out its losses, including a $528 million loss from Solyndra, and was operating in the black.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

he loves to leave out facts and big picture

the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.[16] By 2014 the loan program had wiped out its losses, including a $528 million loss from Solyndra, and was operating in the black.

Nope. I said the stimulus didn't pay for itself, which was totally distinct from the recovery/reinvestment act, which I understand not only paid for itself, but may have turned a profit? But I was talking about the Obama stimulus bill (price tag around 750B), which was a flop. Huge promises of shovel ready jobs, and later, even Obama was laughing that they weren't as shovel ready as he thought. Ha ha ha, we wasted three quarters of a trillion.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But I was talking about the Obama stimulus bill (price tag around 750B), which was a flop. Huge promises of shovel ready jobs, and later, even Obama was laughing that they weren't as shovel ready as he thought. Ha ha ha, we wasted three quarters of a trillion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.a91be058f3cb

A good read on the subject. Summary = the stimulus worked.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by spence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.a91be058f3cb

A good read on the subject. Summary = the stimulus worked.

Good you summarized for him. Jim thinks the black unemployment rate after 1+ year of trump in office has correlation to Trump's level of racism. SAD!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Good you summarized for him. Jim thinks the black unemployment rate after 1+ year of trump in office has correlation to Trump's level of racism. SAD!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Trump (and the entire GOP) celebrated low black unemployment at the SOTU address. The dems sat there, miserable.

I don't think Trump is singularly responsible for low black unemoployment. But he sure seemed happy about it, and your side clearly saw it as no reason to celebrate.

And for god damn sure, that DOES say something about each side's views on race.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.a91be058f3cb

A good read on the subject. Summary = the stimulus worked.

shocker that you came to that conclusion. i mean, we are stunned.

the EU concessions that you dismissed as nothing? well. i still don’t claim to understand it, but the stick market reacted favorably to it. so the people living where the tires meet the road, thought it was beneficial.

can your psyche accept that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

shocker that you came to that conclusion. i mean, we are stunned.

the EU concessions that you dismissed as nothing? well. i still don’t claim to understand it, but the stick market reacted favorably to it. so the people living where the tires meet the road, thought it was beneficial.

can your psyche accept that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

please show me theses EU concessions .. of which you speak if you can ....


PDF
European Commission - Statement
Joint U.S.-EU Statement following President Juncker's visit to the White House
Washington, 25 July 2018

We met today in Washington, D.C. to launch a new phase in the relationship between the United States and the European Union – a phase of close friendship, of strong trade relations in which both of us will win, of working better together for global security and prosperity, and of fighting jointly against terrorism.

The United States and the European Union together count more than 830 million citizens and more than 50 percent of global GDP. If we team up, we can make our planet a better, more secure, and more prosperous place.

Already today, the United States and the European Union have a $1 trillion bilateral trade relationship – the largest economic relationship in the world. We want to further strengthen this trade relationship to the benefit of all American and European citizens.

This is why we agreed today, first of all, to work together toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers, and zero subsidies on non-auto industrial goods. We will also work to reduce barriers and increase trade in services, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, medical products, as well as soybeans. EU already imports the majority of soybeans from the us

This will open markets for farmers and workers, increase investment, and lead to greater prosperity in both the United States and the European Union. It will also make trade fairer and more reciprocal.

Secondly, we agreed today to strengthen our strategic cooperation with respect to energy. The European Union wants to import more liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the United States to diversify its energy supply.

Thirdly, we agreed today to launch a close dialogue on standards in order to ease trade, reduce bureaucratic obstacles, and slash costs.

Fourthly, we agreed today to join forces to protect American and European companies better from unfair global trade practices. We will therefore work closely together with like-minded partners to reform the WTO and to address unfair trading practices, including intellectual property theft, forced technology transfer, industrial subsidies, distortions created by state owned enterprises, and overcapacity.

We decided to set up immediately an Executive Working Group of our closest advisors to carry this joint agenda forward. In addition, it will identify short-term measures to facilitate commercial exchanges and assess existing tariff measures. While we are working on this, we will not go against the spirit of this agreement, unless either party terminates the negotiations.

We also want to resolve the steel and aluminum tariff issues and retaliatory tariffs.



Soybean prices plunge to a 10-year low i understand seeing this from a making money point of view how ever if the US economy is booming under the current system ? what Are his Trade tariffs expected to do ?? endless Growth is not sustainable ... above is the EU press release nothing no details just more negotiation than Trump claims it as a win Trump is doing what he did in his Business He is playing with other peoples money he is exposed to no risk

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

please show me theses EU concessions .. of which you speak if you can ....


PDF
European Commission - Statement
Joint U.S.-EU Statement following President Juncker's visit to the White House
Washington, 25 July 2018

We met today in Washington, D.C. to launch a new phase in the relationship between the United States and the European Union – a phase of close friendship, of strong trade relations in which both of us will win, of working better together for global security and prosperity, and of fighting jointly against terrorism.

The United States and the European Union together count more than 830 million citizens and more than 50 percent of global GDP. If we team up, we can make our planet a better, more secure, and more prosperous place.

Already today, the United States and the European Union have a $1 trillion bilateral trade relationship – the largest economic relationship in the world. We want to further strengthen this trade relationship to the benefit of all American and European citizens.

This is why we agreed today, first of all, to work together toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers, and zero subsidies on non-auto industrial goods. We will also work to reduce barriers and increase trade in services, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, medical products, as well as soybeans. EU already imports the majority of soybeans from the us

This will open markets for farmers and workers, increase investment, and lead to greater prosperity in both the United States and the European Union. It will also make trade fairer and more reciprocal.

Secondly, we agreed today to strengthen our strategic cooperation with respect to energy. The European Union wants to import more liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the United States to diversify its energy supply.

Thirdly, we agreed today to launch a close dialogue on standards in order to ease trade, reduce bureaucratic obstacles, and slash costs.

Fourthly, we agreed today to join forces to protect American and European companies better from unfair global trade practices. We will therefore work closely together with like-minded partners to reform the WTO and to address unfair trading practices, including intellectual property theft, forced technology transfer, industrial subsidies, distortions created by state owned enterprises, and overcapacity.

We decided to set up immediately an Executive Working Group of our closest advisors to carry this joint agenda forward. In addition, it will identify short-term measures to facilitate commercial exchanges and assess existing tariff measures. While we are working on this, we will not go against the spirit of this agreement, unless either party terminates the negotiations.

We also want to resolve the steel and aluminum tariff issues and retaliatory tariffs.



Soybean prices plunge to a 10-year low i understand seeing this from a making money point of view how ever if the US economy is booming under the current system ? what Are his Trade tariffs expected to do ?? endless Growth is not sustainable ... above is the EU press release nothing no details just more negotiation than Trump claims it as a win Trump is doing what he did in his Business He is playing with other peoples money he is exposed to no risk

My opinion is that Trump's tariffs were a negotiation ploy, not an economic strategy. Without that ploy, getting others to meaningfully come to the table would be an exercise in futility. These negotiations are a first, meaningful, step, not an end product. All the first, tentative, agreements can lead to the end product, but not if there is no motive on one side to get there.

Negotiating, meaningfully, by all sides toward zero tariffs can get there if the alternative is tariff war. The U.S. complacently allowing others to impose tariffs without retaliating gives us no leverage.

A first, small step, showing good faith I presume, the EU will import MORE soybeans from us and create stations to import natural gas from us (not a good thing for Russia). Everything else mentioned can now be seriously discussed and agreed to. I didn't see any mechanism being developed to resolve these issue before, except to bitch and whine about it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

please show me theses EU concessions .. of which you speak if you can ....


PDF
European Commission - Statement
Joint U.S.-EU Statement following President Juncker's visit to the White House
Washington, 25 July 2018

We met today in Washington, D.C. to launch a new phase in the relationship between the United States and the European Union – a phase of close friendship, of strong trade relations in which both of us will win, of working better together for global security and prosperity, and of fighting jointly against terrorism.

The United States and the European Union together count more than 830 million citizens and more than 50 percent of global GDP. If we team up, we can make our planet a better, more secure, and more prosperous place.

Already today, the United States and the European Union have a $1 trillion bilateral trade relationship – the largest economic relationship in the world. We want to further strengthen this trade relationship to the benefit of all American and European citizens.

This is why we agreed today, first of all, to work together toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers, and zero subsidies on non-auto industrial goods. We will also work to reduce barriers and increase trade in services, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, medical products, as well as soybeans. EU already imports the majority of soybeans from the us

This will open markets for farmers and workers, increase investment, and lead to greater prosperity in both the United States and the European Union. It will also make trade fairer and more reciprocal.

Secondly, we agreed today to strengthen our strategic cooperation with respect to energy. The European Union wants to import more liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the United States to diversify its energy supply.

Thirdly, we agreed today to launch a close dialogue on standards in order to ease trade, reduce bureaucratic obstacles, and slash costs.

Fourthly, we agreed today to join forces to protect American and European companies better from unfair global trade practices. We will therefore work closely together with like-minded partners to reform the WTO and to address unfair trading practices, including intellectual property theft, forced technology transfer, industrial subsidies, distortions created by state owned enterprises, and overcapacity.

We decided to set up immediately an Executive Working Group of our closest advisors to carry this joint agenda forward. In addition, it will identify short-term measures to facilitate commercial exchanges and assess existing tariff measures. While we are working on this, we will not go against the spirit of this agreement, unless either party terminates the negotiations.

We also want to resolve the steel and aluminum tariff issues and retaliatory tariffs.



Soybean prices plunge to a 10-year low i understand seeing this from a making money point of view how ever if the US economy is booming under the current system ? what Are his Trade tariffs expected to do ?? endless Growth is not sustainable ... above is the EU press release nothing no details just more negotiation than Trump claims it as a win Trump is doing what he did in his Business He is playing with other peoples money he is exposed to no risk

What you posted, says that we will work together toward goals like zero tariffs. Perhaps (I don't know) that helps u sore than it helps them. I watched CNN last night, and on CNN (not known to lie in favor of Trump), their business guy said the market went up yesterday because of favorable reaction to what they discussed. So the markets, who know more about this than either one of us, responded favorably. I can accept that for what it is. You cannot, and must find another explanation.