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Old 09-12-2018, 10:43 AM   #1
Jim in CT
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Washington Post says Trump is 'complicit' in Hurricane Florence

This is really starting to look like a bad, a very bad, SNL skit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...ous-storm.html

Even if you grant that human behavior plays a major role in determining the frequency and severity of these storms, I sit really Trump's fault? Not China or India?

Bonkers. The left has gone absolutely bonkers.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:57 AM   #2
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Considering trump pulled us out of the Paris climate agreement, I’m happy to put blame on trump for any climate related issues. Did you know he had seawalls built on his golf course in Scotland to protect against sea level rise? Isn’t that the most hypocritical thing you can think of?
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:58 AM   #3
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Good lord, a news paper writes an attention getting headline!

The opinion piece is right on and sends a very important message.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:08 AM   #4
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Maybe the hurricane is God’s way of punishing the evangelical south for supporting such a sleezebag. 😂😂😆😆
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:17 AM   #5
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Considering trump pulled us out of the Paris climate agreement, I’m happy to put blame on trump for any climate related issues.


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and there you have it
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:44 AM   #6
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and there you have it
Have you joined the flat earth society yet?
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:51 AM   #7
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Have you joined the flat earth society yet?
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Nebe, if the left had any accuracy on this issue, why haven't any of their dire predictions come true?
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:02 PM   #8
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Nebe, if the left had any accuracy on this issue, why haven't any of their dire predictions come true?
Paging RI Rockhound....
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:09 PM   #9
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Paging RI Rockhound....
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And why does the high priest of the movement, Al Gore, have one of the largest environmental footprints ever?

As to the predictions, I'm exaggerating, but wasn't North Dakota supposed to be exporting pineapples by now?

Pour a ton of money into the science and research. A ton. But I don't feel the need to sell my house and raise my kids in a yurt, while the only thing Al Gore has unplugged in the last 25 years, is his treadmill, ba-dum-bum-pssh.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #10
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And why does the high priest of the movement, Al Gore, have one of the largest environmental footprints ever?

As to the predictions, I'm exaggerating, but wasn't North Dakota supposed to be exporting pineapples by now?

Pour a ton of money into the science and research. A ton. But I don't feel the need to sell my house and raise my kids in a yurt, while the only thing Al Gore has unplugged in the last 25 years, is his treadmill, ba-dum-bum-pssh.
Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?
If so... you’ve been duped as well.
I see a strong correlation between climate change deniers being religious and vice versa.
#sad
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:26 PM   #11
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Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?
If so... you’ve been duped as well.
I see a strong correlation between climate change deniers being religious and vice versa.
#sad
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"Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?"

Yes.

"If so... you’ve been duped as well. "

We'll see. I'd rather hold my view (and behave accordingly) and be wrong, than be an atheist, and find out I'm wrong when it's too late. I'm confident. If we meet on the other side, you can tell me how wrong you were.

"I see a strong correlation between climate change deniers being religious and vice versa."

I don't deny it's changing. But before I impose hardship on me and my family, I need to see more facts. There are way too many unknowns, we have no idea what the atmosphere's ability is to absorb all the crap that we dump. We don't know what effect the oceans have. The models are based almost entirely on assumptions, which explains why the outputs of those models (for example, Philadelphia soon being oceanfront) haven't come true.

Spend the money, do the research. I like nature and the planet at least as much as some Manhattan dilatant who lives in a condo. And I'm very persuadable by facts and common sense. But not by liberal hysteria.
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Old 09-12-2018, 01:53 PM   #12
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Do you believe that after you die, you will have a better life than you do now?
If so... you’ve been duped as well.

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I plan to battle climate change in the afterlife....guess you won't be much help
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:16 PM   #13
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Good luck with that. I disagree with you but respect your beliefs.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:40 PM   #14
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Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am, but the moves he is making and his denial that climate change is happening, will not lessen the impact. Unless you just never ever watch national geographic or any of the outstanding documentaries that have air and documented what is happening, then keep believing climate change is a hoax. It won't impact you, it might not impact your children, but there will be significant implications down the road if the ice packs and glaciers continue to melt. Where do you think all the fing water is going?

Trump is complicit in the poor effort in the after math of Hugo in Puerto Rico, oh wait I'm sorry it was outstanding A+ job, he will likely do better in the Carolina's because they aren't some dirt bag island he doesn't give a sh*t about.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:52 PM   #15
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I don't deny it's changing. But before I impose hardship on me and my family, I need to see more facts. There are way too many unknowns, we have no idea what the atmosphere's ability is to absorb all the crap that we dump. We don't know what effect the oceans have. The models are based almost entirely on assumptions, which explains why the outputs of those models (for example, Philadelphia soon being oceanfront) haven't come true.
Good luck on the facts, it's why we have scientific methods. Models aren't based on assumptions as much as empirically validated hypothesis. Any way the science isn't and never will be perfect but there is consensus that the human impact is significant.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:08 PM   #16
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Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am
profound
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:09 PM   #17
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Good luck on the facts, it's why we have scientific methods. Models aren't based on assumptions as much as empirically validated hypothesis. Any way the science isn't and never will be perfect but there is consensus that the human impact is significant.
what a pile of crap
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:31 PM   #18
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Nobody has to live in a yurt.
The thing we need to do for example is when we build a new house or renovate an old one is be willing to invest in energy conservation measures. People ask what is the ROI for the upgraded insulation package, it could be five or ten years. But they never ask about the ROI on the granite countertops.
This takes time and money, other countries are making the investment and we will be behind again. Money we waste on energy is money we can’t invest
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:09 AM   #19
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Good luck on the facts, it's why we have scientific methods. Models aren't based on assumptions as much as empirically validated hypothesis. Any way the science isn't and never will be perfect but there is consensus that the human impact is significant.
well given that many of the outcomes predicted by that community’s scientific method have not come true, at what point is it appropriate to conclude that they don’t have a lot of credibility?
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:17 AM   #20
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well given that many of the outcomes predicted by that community’s scientific method have not come true, at what point is it appropriate to conclude that they don’t have a lot of credibility?
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Jim,
I am not wading into this again with you. We have rehashed these points too many times.

Can you please point to the scientific community's* (NOT AL GORE) predictions of what you speak? (*Scientific community, meaning a published scientific study, not a movie or a random blog)...

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Old 09-13-2018, 06:18 AM   #21
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Nobody has to live in a yurt.
The thing we need to do for example is when we build a new house or renovate an old one is be willing to invest in energy conservation measures. People ask what is the ROI for the upgraded insulation package, it could be five or ten years. But they never ask about the ROI on the granite countertops.
This takes time and money, other countries are making the investment and we will be behind again. Money we waste on energy is money we can’t invest
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most people can’t afford solar panels or geothermal systems. i have panels at my house because i wanted to do it, but it’s stupudly expensive.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:39 AM   #22
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Jim,
I am not wading into this again with you. We have rehashed these points too many times.

Can you please point to the scientific community's* (NOT AL GORE) predictions of what you speak? (*Scientific community, meaning a published scientific study, not a movie or a random blog)...
i can’t say that i can point i a scientific paper that has predicted disaster. i’m responding to the hysterics i seenon tv. but right around the time i was born, the consensus was that the earth was cooling and we needed to act to stop that. then it was global warming. then it switched to climate change. they can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be.

you don’t care more about the environment than i do, i promise. but we need to acquire additional knowledge, and rely a bit less on wild speculative assumptions, before we disrupt people’s lives, before we tell third world nations that they can’t have heat and air conditioning and cars like we do. and we need to figure out why the hell the alternative energy sources are still so stupudly expensive. that’s what i don’t understand. why is it 30k to cover my roof with solar panels? i leased, butbthats what it would have cost to buy. that price isn’t coming down.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:43 AM   #23
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Jim,


Can you please point to the scientific community's* (NOT AL GORE) predictions of what you speak? (*Scientific community, meaning a published scientific study, not a movie or a random blog)...
settled science backed by consensus....yawn...is al gore still alive?

here's a recent one..... .5 degrees of warming will cause large increases in deaths worldwide....

“Our projections suggest that large increases in temperature-related deaths could be limited in most regions if warming was kept below 2°C,” explains Ana Maria Vicedo-Cabrera, the first author of the study. “Under extreme changes in climate, large parts of the world could experience a dramatic increase in excess mortality due to heat. This would not be balanced by decreases in cold-related deaths. Efforts to limit the increase in global temperature to below 1.5°C could provide additional benefits in tropical or arid regions, including the most populous and often poorest countries.”

Vicedo-Cabrera, A. M. et al (2018). Temperature-mortality impacts under and beyond Paris Agreement climate change scenarios, Climatic Change Letters DOI: 10.1007/s10584-018-2274-3

https://link.springer.com/article/10...584-018-2274-3


if we just spend enough money we can hold the global temperature down....

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Old 09-13-2018, 06:57 AM   #24
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I'm leaving at this Jim. Too busy to engage in pointless arguments on the internet.
1. The global cooling argument from the 70's is way over played (see this link for more on that) https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html

2. Spence had a good take on this above. Models are not wildly speculative assumptions. This video offers a good explanation on how models are made using historic data and carried into the future. The take away is that the exact prediction of any model is not important, but the overall consensus of these various independent models on increasing levels of CO2 are warming the atmosphere, and in the case of this video, reducing the sea ice cover in the arctic

The geological record provides solid evidence of the implications of warmer worlds, times with higher CO2 and higher sea level than present. Let’s take Sea level rise since we are in the coastal area of New England.

Sea level is rising. Period. Observations and data (NOT MODELS) show it has accelerated within the last few decades and that that is driven by thermal expansion and melting of land based ice related to a warming planet.

Even if you want to conclude that sea level rise is not accelerating, it is rising, and that means that for every area prone to flooding from storms (and sea level rise), that it is not going to get better. How many coastal communities have installed tide gates on storm drains in recent years because low areas are now flooding just on spring tides w/o storm surge? That is largely due to ~1 ft of sea level rise. Now picture 3 -5 feet. The extreme scenarios in S. New England are >10ft.
The degree of how much worse it gets is up for debate. Prudent planning for the next decades to deal with this, rather than sticking fingers in our ears and yelling is short sighted and will make adaptation harder in the future. That isn’t even adding in the increased height of storm surge or potential for more intense or more frequent storms.

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.


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Old 09-13-2018, 07:10 AM   #25
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Jim your statement “ can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be” is so wrong, I pretty sure there is a definate concensu in the scientific community on global warming. Unless you don’t watch local news; it’s clear to Boston it will severely impact them if sea levels continue to rise, to the level building codes are changing in the seaport. I grew up in Scituate Ma and remember walking over a mile of nice sandy beach and today at high tide you would need waders to go much past the small beach level by minut center. My son just got back from Alaska and was bummed they couldn’t take the advertised glacier dog sled ride, but the guide explained it’s just become so unsafe due to the unusual melting the past several years. Mountains covered by snow for hundreds of years are now shedding their perpetual winter blanket, polar bears are starving due to the lack of sea ice to hunt on, add it all up and it’s pretty clear what is happening.
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:34 AM   #26
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Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.
cranky dictator
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:46 AM   #27
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when you want government to do everything....you allow and encourage everything to be politicized ..and weaponized...which is where we stand today....the left has wrapped themselves in the cloak of invincibility of many things...science, race, environment, immigration and on and on...standing on their pedestals they have politicized and every issue and weaponized one government agency (particularly through the 8 years of Obama) after another to attack anyone who might disagree with them...when you politicize and weaponize everything you create division and choosing of sides and mistrust.....the left has overblown through lies, distortion and exaggeration the information and "science" often with the aid of the "scientific community"....the left in so many ways today has created many of the boogiemen that they battle on a daily basis...I don't have much sympathy
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:27 AM   #28
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Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am, but the moves he is making and his denial that climate change is happening, will not lessen the impact. Unless you just never ever watch national geographic or any of the outstanding documentaries that have air and documented what is happening, then keep believing climate change is a hoax. It won't impact you, it might not impact your children, but there will be significant implications down the road if the ice packs and glaciers continue to melt. Where do you think all the fing water is going?

Trump is complicit in the poor effort in the after math of Hugo in Puerto Rico, oh wait I'm sorry it was outstanding A+ job, he will likely do better in the Carolina's because they aren't some dirt bag island he doesn't give a sh*t about.
Did you know Trump is at fault for those millions of water bottles at Ciueba? Not sailing Comfort or Mercy (Hillary fixed that)? Not building a bridge before the storm from FL to PR in order to get trucks overnight to PR to repair the state of art Power Grid the US gave PR Many Millions to copy?

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Old 09-13-2018, 08:59 AM   #29
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Did you know Trump is at fault for those millions of water bottles at Ciueba? Not sailing Comfort or Mercy (Hillary fixed that)? Not building a bridge before the storm from FL to PR in order to get trucks overnight to PR to repair the state of art Power Grid the US gave PR Many Millions to copy?
I know Trump isn't responsible for a lot of that John come on really, but he owns his big fat mouth and constant denial that the death tolls reported in Puerto Rico are false. Even yesterday instead of taking the high road, a road he almost never travels down, he continued to state the few additional deaths over the initial reports are due to the hurricanes, in fact he spun it as if the Dems were responsible for the reporting to make him look bad. So who do you believe, someone who is living it and responsible for their citizens well being, or a guy who appears to be looking for the Guinness Book of Record for the most lies or miss truths spoken be any living being in a year?

He also owns his administrations policy decisions which will do nothing to curb global warming, in fact he really has no fear of global warming, because as you all know that's fake news. Global warming to him is like the reports that over 3000 died in Puerto Rico, or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than most recent presidents, or that he never knew Cohen paid off a porn star.

He spends is mornings watching Fox and tweeting more lies and hurtful messaging, I had little respect for this guy from the start and I can't wait until he is voted out or kicked to the curb.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:17 AM   #30
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Jim your statement “ can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be” is so wrong, I pretty sure there is a definate concensu in the scientific community on global warming. Unless you don’t watch local news; it’s clear to Boston it will severely impact them if sea levels continue to rise, to the level building codes are changing in the seaport. I grew up in Scituate Ma and remember walking over a mile of nice sandy beach and today at high tide you would need waders to go much past the small beach level by minut center. My son just got back from Alaska and was bummed they couldn’t take the advertised glacier dog sled ride, but the guide explained it’s just become so unsafe due to the unusual melting the past several years. Mountains covered by snow for hundreds of years are now shedding their perpetual winter blanket, polar bears are starving due to the lack of sea ice to hunt on, add it all up and it’s pretty clear what is happening.
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first it was global cooling. then global warming. then climate change.

the ice in antarctica is advancing, isn’t it?
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