Human caravan

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

why are these people waving the flag of the country they are fleeing, exactly?
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I guess people need to ditch their Irish italian portuguese flags and tattoos seeing they were fleeing those countries to get here.. and that was a long time ago .. with that kind of thinking its clear why your a conservative ...

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

we have the money to take them
in? weren’t you worrying about the debt?

of course trumps response has to do with politics, asndies the liberal claim that we should
let them in. how many is nancy pelosi going to let
live next to her, so you suppose?? it’s very easy to support open borders when you are immune to the effects.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

only conservatives are claiming we have an open border we never have and never will have an open border .. another lie from the right for the uninformed you want to call it a porous border I'll agree with that

1 F 35 cost us $85 million please we have the money if we need it

who destabilized that region of the world 20-30 -50 years ago The united States did funny how that works

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I guess people need to ditch their Irish italian portuguese flags and tattoos seeing they were fleeing those countries to get here.. and that was a long time ago .. with that kind of thinking its clear why your a conservative ...

Were they waving them on the ship as they were heading into Ellis Island.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

can't wait till the next caravan of 70,000

there's another one forming in Honduras right now.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I guess people need to ditch their Irish italian portuguese flags and tattoos seeing they were fleeing those countries to get here.. and that was a long time ago .. with that kind of thinking its clear why your a conservative ...

My ancestors didn't flee Ireland for quite the same reasons these people are fleeing Honduras. And I think you know that.

Seriously, what would it take for a non-partisan answer from you, to one singe question?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

only conservatives are claiming we have an open border we never have and never will have an open border .. another lie from the right for the uninformed you want to call it a porous border I'll agree with that

1 F 35 cost us $85 million please we have the money if we need it

who destabilized that region of the world 20-30 -50 years ago The united States did funny how that works

"only conservatives are claiming we have an open border we never have and never will have an open border ."

We have at least 10 million illegals. So how would you say it's closed? There's a gap somewhere. What the hell are you talking about? It's called "an expression", ever heard of that? Anyone who wants to come across, can. A few years ago, a guy running for Congress went to Mexico, and then illegally crossed back into the US, riding an elephant, and he hired a mariachi band to play alongside him, and he crossed without getting caught. Call it whatever you want, we all know what it is.

When the biggest swing you can take, is to say "the border isn't 'open', it's just 'porous' enough for a guy riding an elephant to make it across", you are really reaching.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

My ancestors didn't flee Ireland for quite the same reasons these people are fleeing Honduras. And I think you know that.

Seriously, what would it take for a non-partisan answer from you, to one singe question?

Its a human answer so why are these people fleeing Honduras Seeing you seem to know the real reason?

And how is fleeing because of Famine a more noble reason ??


Try reading history Even before the famine, these people had been desparately poor, proverbially the poorest in Europe.

now its south america

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"only conservatives are claiming we have an open border we never have and never will have an open border ."

We have at least 10 million illegals. So how would you say it's closed? There's a gap somewhere. What the hell are you talking about? It's called "an expression", ever heard of that? Anyone who wants to come across, can. A few years ago, a guy running for Congress went to Mexico, and then illegally crossed back into the US, riding an elephant, and he hired a mariachi band to play alongside him, and he crossed without getting caught. Call it whatever you want, we all know what it is.

When the biggest swing you can take, is to say "the border isn't 'open', it's just 'porous' enough for a guy riding an elephant to make it across", you are really reaching.

when the right uses Open borders not an expression “open borders” is not a pejorative; it’s an actual policy position: they claim the Left wants

We have at least 10 million illegals. So how would you say it's closed? There's a gap somewhere. that numbers has be constant since early 2005

who said it was closed i said it was porous I also have a understanding of size and scope that you seem to ignore in how you get to zero illegal immigration


again geography AKA Facts U.S.-Canadian border, excluding Alaska, is approximately 3,987 miles, while the length of the U.S.-Mexican border is estimated at 1,933 miles.the general coastline of the entire US is 12,383 miles, while the shoreline is 95,471 miles

Ever play red rover red rover

[Sea Dangles]

I am not sure what the answer is but the question has been asked Wayne so why not answer. There are a lot of unfortunate people on the planet, should the United States have an open border and help all whom ask?
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[detbuch]

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Perhaps the 5th largest GDP in the world would say ok and cut off their aid to the federal government.

be my guest...

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...alth-gap-grows

However, the Golden State remains one of the most unequal in the nation. It has both billions of dollars in Silicon Valley and rampant homelessness. Its efforts to eliminate poverty instead accentuates it, and its tax system inadvertently aids those who are already wealthy. With the middle class leaving in droves, California society represents a modern day feudal system of robber barons and the poor. It is an unsustainable mixture."

[Pete F.]

How the caravan started
TAPACHULA, Mexico—When Bartolo Fuentes speaks about migrants, the usually soft-spoken former politician gets passionate, and an encyclopedic knowledge of immigration issues shines through. Bespectacled and 54 years old with salt and pepper hair, he has the look of a professor, but he draws on a lifetime working with migrants in Honduras, and on his own personal experience.

In 1980 an older brother migrated north, and by the end of the decade Bartolo sought refuge in Mexico himself after receiving threats. Central America’s right-wing death squads were notorious and his earlier participation in protests against the U.S.-backed Contras, who used his country as a staging ground in their CIA-backed war on Nicaragua’s Sandinistas, made him a potential target.

Until recently, Fuentes lived in relative anonymity despite being a former legislator and the host of a radio show on migration called “Without Borders.” But today, depending on who you ask, he is either a hero who’s put his own life on the line to help migrants, or a cynical villain. Many in the Honduran government—concerned with the country’s image amid a mass exodus—portray Fuentes as a “coyote,” or human trafficker, who organized the migrant caravan and took advantage of the people in it with “false promises” for political purposes.

ABOUT A MONTH AGO, when Fuentes first became aware of small groups dispersed throughout Honduras that were organizing among themselves to make the trek north, he decided to help out, just as he had done with a previous migrant caravan last April—and indeed throughout his life.

At the time, all the groups combined numbered no more than 200 people, Fuentes says. As someone who had helped repatriate the bodies of many migrants who died in the journey al Norte, he was acutely aware of the dangers and wanted to help ensure the people’s safety.

“No one expected this human avalanche,” he told The Daily Beast in a phone call from the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa.

But then a report on the country’s most-watched cable news channel, HCH, painted a picture of the caravan that changed everything. The anchors interviewed a woman who was supposedly part of the caravan. The woman talked about safety in numbers, called Fuentes the organizer and mentioned foreign assistance. The anchors, without any supporting evidence, then said that Fuentes would pay for the migrants’ food and transportation.

Fuentes was later interviewed by the anchors and strongly refuted what was said, but by then the damage was done.
“After that news program I started to get hundreds of calls, then it took on a life of its own,” said Fuentes. “In Honduras, the government wants to minimize why people are leaving—they know they are going to leave and they want to say they are doing so because of lies and the opposition, not the conditions that they created. This is in line with what the United States is saying—that there are false promises being made. And this pro-government news program played into that messaging, trying to say that there is financing when really people just need to get out.”

Soon afterward, Hondurans from across the country headed west to join the caravan, which swelled by the thousands. Many were propelled to join by the HCH report, but the majority were people who had been considering migration for a long time and now saw an opportunity to head north with added safety in numbers and without having to pay a coyote, which can cost as much as $7,000.
Trump floated the idea the caravan was rife with criminals and “Middle Easterners,” only to have Guatemala’s president claim, in a burst of pure sycophancy meant to back up Trump’s claims, that several members of the so-called Islamic State had been intercepted. No evidence was presented to substantiate that statement. New York Times fact checkers rubbished it in short order. And, as it happens, for more than a century “Middle Easterners” have been a significant part of the Honduran population. They’re called Turcos because they immigrated so long ago they came with Ottoman passports.

In Honduras two-thirds of the population lives in poverty and the total number increased by roughly six percent in 2017; 80 percent of workers earn below the minimum wage of a few hundred dollars per month. On top of this, Honduras ranks among the most violent countries on the planet. Fewer than one in 10 crimes is ever solved.

And then there’s the drought. Honduras is one of the countries that has been most affected by climate change, particularly in the part of its territory that intersects with what’s known as the Central America Dry Corridor. In the past, farmers in this region could rely on two harvests annually, but now they are lucky to produce one. This year, a severe drought during the rainy season meant tens of thousands of families produced none.

[scottw]

do you want to let them all in Pete?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

do you want to let them all in Pete?

What does how the caravan started have to do with if anyone wants open borders or a new immigration policy? I have never said that everyone can come.
Which of the central american countries do you want to use North Korean control of their people so that they don't leave, no Trumplican, except perhaps their leader who is having an admitted love affair with Kim Jong-un, has an issue with North Koreans escaping horrible conditions, though Trump brought a NK refugee to his State of the Union speech.
Do you think it will ever change if the only negotiating tool that the current administrations uses is "if you don't agree with what I propose, then you want open borders"

Perhaps you would advocate genocide to get rid of the awful brown people, or just pick anyone up who looks like that and deport them.
We rounded up all the people of mexican descent, citizens or not in the the Mexican Repatriation in the 1930s, it is remarkably similar to the current atmosphere and political behavior, though we don't have an economic depression currently to blame it on.

[Nebe]

I find it hilarious that the Christian faith is all about love and kindness and accepting those less fortunate than you. Mary and Joseph were refuges.
Seems like the Christian faith in the US has lost its way.
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[Pete F.]

If the big danger we face is Central Americans why doesn't Trump have a Summit with the leaders of the Central American countries?
I would expect he could also solve that in a day by just taking a meeting.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I find it hilarious that the Christian faith is all about love and kindness and accepting those less fortunate than you. Mary and Joseph were refuges.
Seems like the Christian faith in the US has lost its way.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

thought that was banned from politics?...you know...separation of church and state and all of that

Mary and Joseph were not refugees stoopid.....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If the big danger we face is Central Americans why doesn't Trump have a Summit with the leaders of the Central American countries?
I would expect he could also solve that in a day by just taking a meeting.

probably...he's nailed everything else...Merkel

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What does how the caravan started have to do with if anyone wants open borders or a new immigration policy? I have never said that everyone can come.
Which of the central american countries do you want to use North Korean control of their people so that they don't leave, no Trumplican, except perhaps their leader who is having an admitted love affair with Kim Jong-un, has an issue with North Koreans escaping horrible conditions, though Trump brought a NK refugee to his State of the Union speech.
Do you think it will ever change if the only negotiating tool that the current administrations uses is "if you don't agree with what I propose, then you want open borders"

Perhaps you would advocate genocide to get rid of the awful brown people, or just pick anyone up who looks like that and deport them.
We rounded up all the people of mexican descent, citizens or not in the the Mexican Repatriation in the 1930s, it is remarkably similar to the current atmosphere and political behavior, though we don't have an economic depression currently to blame it on.

I often read your posts and wish I hadn't bothered....

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

I often read your posts and wish I hadn't bothered....

I'd say the same about yours, but they have the saving grace of being short.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I find it hilarious that the Christian faith is all about love and kindness and accepting those less fortunate than you. Mary and Joseph were refuges.
Seems like the Christian faith in the US has lost its way.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Nebe, I'm a Christian, I feel for these people. But we can't take in everyone who wants to come. We don't have the space or the money, and there is no tenet of Christianity which commands me to abandon common sense or reality in the name of good works.

I completely agree that Christianity has lost its way. This migration isn't evidence of that...but liberalism sure is.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I'd say the same about yours, but they have the saving grace of being short.

I've never suggested you'd advocate genocide...that's really stupid...I guess that's what happens when you go off teleprompter...get some help Pete...before it's too late

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

probably...he's nailed everything else...Merkel

You're wrong, he actually skipped the Central American Summit this April. I guess it wasn't a problem until election time.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You're wrong,.

get help pete....

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I completely agree that Christianity has lost its way. This migration isn't evidence of that...but liberalism sure is.

And yet the conservative phil. Is to cut the taxes of the rich and then blame the soaring deficits on entitlement spending so they can cut benefits from the poor and less fortunate. They have no empathy or pity. At least we don't have to hear the words "compassionate conservative" any more.
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[wdmso]

Eduardo Nunez talks about his massive 3-run home run to help clinch a Game 1 win for Boston

its fine he jumped the line and wasn't in a caravan

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Eduardo Nunez talks about his massive 3-run home run to help clinch a Game 1 win for Boston

its fine he jumped the line and wasn't in a caravan

Instead of intentionally posting the stupidest crap you can think of Wayne,why not just do a crossword puzzle and learn how to spell? This desperation is throwing shade on your message.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And yet the conservative phil. Is to cut the taxes of the rich and then blame the soaring deficits on entitlement spending so they can cut benefits from the poor and less fortunate. They have no empathy or pity. At least we don't have to hear the words "compassionate conservative" any more.
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do you ever get one right, even by accident? the conservative philosophy is to avoid wasteful spending to keep taxes for everyone, no higher than they need to be. try poking holes in that. if conservatives have no empathy or pity, why does the new york times admit that conservatives give more
money and time to charity, than liberals do?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

do you ever get one right, even by accident? the conservative philosophy is to avoid wasteful spending to keep taxes for everyone, no higher than they need to be. try poking holes in that. if conservatives have no empathy or pity, why does the new york times admit that conservatives give more
money and time to charity, than liberals do?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Just because Arthur Brooks writes a book that says so doesn’t make it true
A 2013 MIT study found charitable giving equal between liberals and conservatives
We’ll see how the latest Republican tax reform affects charitable giving since many people will have a harder time taking deductions
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just because Arthur Brooks writes a book that says so doesn’t make it true
A 2013 MIT study found charitable giving equal between liberals and conservatives
We’ll see how the latest Republican tax reform affects charitable giving since many people will have a harder time taking deductions
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Just because Arthur Brooks writes a book that says so doesn’t make it true"

And just because you hate the findings, doesn't make it false.

"A 2013 MIT study found charitable giving equal between liberals and conservatives "

Fine. SO no difference in generosity between liberals and conservatives. Is that what you're saying? I have no problem conceding that, none. Can you concede it?

"We’ll see how the latest Republican tax reform affects charitable giving since many people will have a harder time taking deductions"

Most people saw an INCREASE in take-home pay. True or false?