Manufactured Crisis

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I did not find anything directly referring to rapes and refugees in Mexico but I do see concerns they have about the US deportation method and that is something Trump could remedy today if he was truly concerned about a humanitarian crisis

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.or...thern-triangle

"Sixty-eight point three percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States."

"Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey."

"MSF patients reported that the perpetrators of violence included members of gangs and other criminal organizations, as well as members of the Mexican security forces responsible for their protection."

"Sixty percent of the 166 people treated for sexual violence were raped, and 40 percent were exposed to sexual assault and other types of humiliation, including forced nudity."

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.or...thern-triangle

"Sixty-eight point three percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States."

"Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey."

"MSF patients reported that the perpetrators of violence included members of gangs and other criminal organizations, as well as members of the Mexican security forces responsible for their protection."

That was written in 2016, so how did that become the basis of the current crisis in the speech written by Stephen Miller for Trump?

While I'm convinced that problems exist, again, just how did it become the issue of the day in the last 3 weeks and not in the two previous years?

[The Dad Fisherman]

You said....

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I did not find anything directly referring to rapes and refugees in Mexico

I found something

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I did not find anything directly referring to rapes and refugees in Mexico

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You said....



I found something

Thanks for finding that

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

That was written in 2016, so how did that become the basis of the current crisis in the speech written by Stephen Miller for Trump?

While I'm convinced that problems exist, again, just how did it become the issue of the day in the last 3 weeks and not in the two previous years?

"That was written in 2016, so how did that become the basis of the current crisis in the speech written by Stephen Miller for Trump?"

So when you hear about this level of violence, and Trump says let's help these people...you aren't nearly as concerned with helping them, as you are with proving that Trump doesn't really care. You are concerned with finding a way to bash Trump, not with figuring out a way to stop these people from making this illegal journey which exposes them to such violence. What do you think that says about you?

"While I'm convinced that problems exist, again, just how did it become the issue of the day in the last 3 weeks and not in the two previous years?"

A great and fair question. Is answering that question, much more important than solving the problem? Can we do both at the same time? Let's address the problem, and also ask Trump, and everyone in Congress, why the hell they didn't address this on day one. I agree, that Trump and the GOP have MUCH to answer for, they could have done this 2 years ago, and should have. But what's the benefit, of continuing to ignore it?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"That was written in 2016, so how did that become the basis of the current crisis in the speech written by Stephen Miller for Trump?"

So when you hear about this level of violence, and Trump says let's help these people...you aren't nearly as concerned with helping them, as you are with proving that Trump doesn't really care. You are concerned with finding a way to bash Trump, not with figuring out a way to stop these people from making this illegal journey which exposes them to such violence. What do you think that says about you?

"While I'm convinced that problems exist, again, just how did it become the issue of the day in the last 3 weeks and not in the two previous years?"

A great and fair question. Is answering that question, much more important than solving the problem? Can we do both at the same time? Let's address the problem, and also ask Trump, and everyone in Congress, why the hell they didn't address this on day one. I agree, that Trump and the GOP have MUCH to answer for, they could have done this 2 years ago, and should have. But what's the benefit, of continuing to ignore it?

Is anything that Trump is holding the Government hostage for going to change tomorrow if he got his campaign promise fulfilled today?
This crisis should have been dealt with two years ago and did not become a crisis until Coulter and Limbaugh told Trump he was a failure if he did not get a wall. He was going to sign the budgets.
Pass the budgets and then show us some win win negotiation, walking out is a NY BS developer tactic that doesn't work in politics.
I'm not convinced that the Republicans want Trump to win this and it's pretty unlikely that he will get a 100% win.
I think they are looking for an opportunity to send him down the road and wash their hands of him to get the stink off.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Is anything that Trump is holding the Government hostage for going to change tomorrow if he got his campaign promise fulfilled today?
This crisis should have been dealt with two years ago and did not become a crisis until Coulter and Limbaugh told Trump he was a failure if he did not get a wall. He was going to sign the budgets.
Pass the budgets and then show us some win win negotiation, walking out is a NY BS developer tactic that doesn't work in politics.
I'm not convinced that the Republicans want Trump to win this and it's pretty unlikely that he will get a 100% win.
I think they are looking for an opportunity to send him down the road and wash their hands of him to get the stink off.

"Is anything that Trump is holding the Government hostage for going to change tomorrow if he got his campaign promise fulfilled today?"

Nope, not tomorrow. But avoiding the issue, doesn't change anything either.

"This crisis should have been dealt with two years ago "

Why 2 years ago? You give Obama a pass for 8 years of doing nothing? I agree Trump should have done it on day one. But it should have been addressed before he ran. Obama also campaigned in 2008 on fixing this, and he didn't, and he caught some heat from democrats for that, as Trump should today.

"Pass the budgets and then show us some win win negotiation"

Nope. Not in this climate. The democrats won't allow him to get a win, unless he has the shutdown as leverage. They'd rather let people continue to suffer, than let him enjoy a win. It's horrible, but it is what it is. If the democrats compromised today, he'd open the government tomorrow. If he opens the government today, they will never agree to the wall. Their hatred of him outweighs their obligations to serve us.

"it's pretty unlikely that he will get a 100% win."

I don't see how he can agree to anything that doesn't include a wall, maybe some addiitons to the existing structure. Who knows.

"I think they are looking for an opportunity to send him down the road and wash their hands of him to get the stink #^&#^&#^&#^&

I don't see much evidence of that, maybe a few legislators who hate him.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Nope. Not in this climate. The democrats won't allow him to get a win, unless he has the shutdown as leverage. They'd rather let people continue to suffer, than let him enjoy a win. It's horrible, but it is what it is. If the democrats compromised today, he'd open the government tomorrow. If he opens the government today, they will never agree to the wall. Their hatred of him outweighs their obligations to serve us.

I guess Obama should have held the government hostage, apparently that is how you think our political system works.

I have yet to see anything that comes close to an explanation of what they plan to do from this administration.
Here is the previous administration's proposal
I'll gladly look at Trump's but I don't think it exists

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov..._blueprint.pdf

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

That was written in 2016, so how did that become the basis of the current crisis in the speech written by Stephen Miller for Trump?

While I'm convinced that problems exist, again, just how did it become the issue of the day in the last 3 weeks and not in the two previous years?

According to the date listed at the top of the article, it was written in May 2017. When it was finally disseminated into a large enough population of politicians, bureaucrats, President, "important" people and the general population, it wouldn't have become persuasive and well known very much before the mid terms.

Did you know about this article in 2016 (not possible), or 2017 (half of which was gone by the time it was written) or in 2018?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

According to the date listed at the top of the article, it was written in May 2017. When it was finally disseminated into a large enough population of politicians, bureaucrats, President, "important" people and the general population, it wouldn't have become persuasive and well known very much before the mid terms.

Did you know about this article in 2016 (not possible), or 2017 (half of which was gone by the time it was written) or in 2018?

You are correct, I misread the footnote
I think it became important when one side was looking for justification to sell this as a humanitarian crisis, but you'd have to ask Jim what the source was for his original claim as the first three words in this thread are: "Doctors Without Borders"

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.or...thern-triangle

"Sixty-eight point three percent of the migrant and refugee populations entering Mexico reported being victims of violence during their transit toward the United States."

"Nearly one-third of the women surveyed had been sexually abused during their journey."

"MSF patients reported that the perpetrators of violence included members of gangs and other criminal organizations, as well as members of the Mexican security forces responsible for their protection."

"Sixty percent of the 166 people treated for sexual violence were raped, and 40 percent were exposed to sexual assault and other types of humiliation, including forced nudity."

STOP MANUFACTURING THINGS!!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

STOP MANUFACTURING THINGS!!

I wouldn't worry about it, it's old news.

I'm sure these new folks migrating have set rules in place to make sure all that rapey stuff stopped.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I wouldn't worry about it, it's old news.

I'm sure these new folks migrating have set rules in place to make sure all that rapey stuff stopped.

Perhaps that is why they come in caravans, rather than alone.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Perhaps that is why they come in caravans, rather than alone.

from same article

"An estimated 500,000 people cross into Mexico every year. The majority making up this massive forced migration flow originate from El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala"

or 1,370 people per day. 1 at a time??? Must look like ants heading towards a picnic