alternative to wall

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Does anyone disagree with you? Is anyone suggesting that the southern border is the only pressing issue?

I b et we can extend the barriers as Trump is proposing, AND have cops walking a beat in Chicago.

It's not one or the other.

Are you people for real? These are without a doubt, the stupidest, lamest, easiest-to-destroy, most thoughtless arguments I have ever heard on any topic, since i started paying attention to politics.

Extending existing barriers isn't perfect, some people will get through. It won't stop school shootings in New England, it won't stop gang violence in Chicago, it won't cure cancer or end poverty. It won't do any of those things.

Want to know what it will do? Look at what happened in San Diego, and Yuma Arizona, after barriers went up there.

Jim Acosta for Gods sake, spent 10 minutes at the border, and because he didn't see anything, means it's not a crisis? Do you know how stupid that is? It's as stupid as me saying, "I went to Chicago twice for work, I didn't get shot, didn't see anyone get shot, so the stories of violence are made up".

See how stupid that is?

Glad to see you characterize it as the “issue” it is and not the national emergency the White House would like us to believe. I’d also suggest the reduced national security at our ports of entry due to disgruntled government workers is ironically happening over a shutdown over national security.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Glad to see you characterize it as the “issue” it is and not the national emergency the White House would like us to believe. I’d also suggest the reduced national security at our ports of entry due to disgruntled government workers is ironically happening over a shutdown over national security.
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So his words are what matter, whether it's a serious problem, a crisis, or an emergency? Do you agree that at best, it's a serious problem? The dems sure thought so until January 2017...and who here, criticized them for saying it was a crisis?

GS, I'm responding to you, but I don't mean to single you out, as you are usually thoughtful and fair. But your side has really jumped the shark on this one, you're tripping all over yourselves for the sake of saying Trump is wrong. That's ALL this is. If Hilary had won and wanted the wall, we'd have the wall.

And the arguments the Trump haters are clinging to, are just beyond absurd.

The wall can''t guarantee that illegal immigration won't converge to zero

We have other problems in addition to immigration

Walls are immoral, but fences are swell

Walls don't work (this is so stupid and demonstrably false, there aren't words to describe it)

Not every single illegal comes through the southern border

it's too expensive

illegals contribute positively to our economy

not everyone who gets murdered, is killed by an illegal

trump doesn't really care about the women getting raped

These arguments would get any high school student, a richly deserved 'F' in debate class.

If we didn't know for a certainty how well barriers worked in San Diego and Arizona, MAYBE there'd be two sides to this. But we do, so there aren't.

How many border patrol agents have you seen on TV, who aren't saying the wall will help? The guy who ran the border patrol under Obama, who was fired by Trump and therefore has reason to hate Trump, says it will help and is needed.

Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer know better? And what changed since 2013?

[Got Stripers]

I’m not on a side as an independent and frankly what concerns me more than a real immigration problem I’ve acknowledged we have at the southern border, is the mounting evidence Trump may have had more than just a budding browmance with Putin. We are talking about a national security crisis at our border, when the farther we get into the mueller investigation and mounting evidence that not only did Russia influence the 2016 election, that the Trump family may have had reasons to possibly assist in those efforts. The wall is a distraction because the walls may be closing in on the Don’s family business.
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[Sea Dangles]

On one hand we have a problem with ILLEGAL entry and on the other hand we have speculation of Trump being directly involved with Russian collusion. We will see how real this Trump collusion turns out but my guess is this will be another nothing burger,similar to the Kavanaugh democratic debacle. Regardless,a wall would be an effective means of keeping ILLEAGALS out. Unfortunately half the nation would rather chase a ghost,similar to the previous distraction where the democrats threw a hissy fit and made up stories about a Supreme Court nominee. This is where we are as a nation politically.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I’m not on a side as an independent and frankly what concerns me more than a real immigration problem I’ve acknowledged we have at the southern border, is the mounting evidence Trump may have had more than just a budding browmance with Putin. We are talking about a national security crisis at our border, when the farther we get into the mueller investigation and mounting evidence that not only did Russia influence the 2016 election, that the Trump family may have had reasons to possibly assist in those efforts. The wall is a distraction because the walls may be closing in on the Don’s family business.
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The wall may be an attempt to get Mueller off the front page. That doesn't mean it won't help innocent people. We can secure our borders, and investigate Trump. No need to do those things consecutively.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

On one hand we have a problem with ILLEGAL entry and on the other hand we have speculation of Trump being directly involved with Russian collusion. We will see how real this Trump collusion turns out but my guess is this will be another nothing burger,similar to the Kavanaugh democratic debacle. Regardless,a wall would be an effective means of keeping ILLEAGALS out. Unfortunately half the nation would rather chase a ghost,similar to the previous distraction where the democrats threw a hissy fit and made up stories about a Supreme Court nominee. This is where we are as a nation politically.
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Trump must be salivating at even the thought of being able to replace Ginsberg. I hope she lives to be 100, but I hope she retires tomorrow, so he can nominate Amy Barrett a devout Catholic, and we can all see, once and for all, how tolerant these liberals are and how much they sincerely advocate for women.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Trump must be salivating at even the thought of being able to replace Ginsberg. I hope she lives to be 100, but I hope she retires tomorrow, so he can nominate Amy Barrett a devout Catholic, and we can all see, once and for all, how tolerant these liberals are and how much they sincerely advocate for women.

Separation of church and state mean anything to you?
I doubt it.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Separation of church and state mean anything to you?

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It does. But unlike you, I know what it means. It means that there will be no official state religion. It does NOT mean that religiously-informed consciences, cannot influence public policy. It does NOT men, that religious people are required to leave their religion outside of public service.

Religiously-motivated people ended slavery and segregation.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So his words are what matter, whether it's a serious problem, a crisis, or an emergency? Do you agree that at best, it's a serious problem? The dems sure thought so until January 2017...and who here, criticized them for saying it was a crisis?

GS, I'm responding to you, but I don't mean to single you out, as you are usually thoughtful and fair. But your side has really jumped the shark on this one, you're tripping all over yourselves for the sake of saying Trump is wrong. That's ALL this is. If Hilary had won and wanted the wall, we'd have the wall.

And the arguments the Trump haters are clinging to, are just beyond absurd.

The wall can''t guarantee that illegal immigration won't converge to zero

We have other problems in addition to immigration

Walls are immoral, but fences are swell

Walls don't work (this is so stupid and demonstrably false, there aren't words to describe it)

Not every single illegal comes through the southern border

it's too expensive

illegals contribute positively to our economy

not everyone who gets murdered, is killed by an illegal

trump doesn't really care about the women getting raped

These arguments would get any high school student, a richly deserved 'F' in debate class.

If we didn't know for a certainty how well barriers worked in San Diego and Arizona, MAYBE there'd be two sides to this. But we do, so there aren't.

How many border patrol agents have you seen on TV, who aren't saying the wall will help? The guy who ran the border patrol under Obama, who was fired by Trump and therefore has reason to hate Trump, says it will help and is needed.

Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer know better? And what changed since 2013?

and you still have yet to address why in 2 years and control of both houses no wall but as soon as dems take the house There is suddenly a crisis ...

All your effort has been to Support Trump by any lie or excuse necessary ... just like the russian thing I remember the outrage over the Jeremiah Wright controversy

But Putin and russia is all fake news LOL

[Pete F.]

I spent years on school boards, not nearly as complicated as Congress but we received each year budgets from administration that we reviewed, if something went up we asked for and got an explanation. Trump DHS budget prior to his added demands had gone up 7.3% from the previous year and I think then very late in the game he added more.
I attached the 2019 proposed budget from the Trump administration, I see 1.6 billion for new wall,
"• $1.6 billion for 65 miles of new border wall construction in the Rio Grande Valley Sector to deny access to drug trafficking organizations and illegal migration flows in high traffic
zones where apprehensions are the highest along the Southwest Border. "
How did it change and why?
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...BIB%202019.pdf
I find little information on what Trump wants to do, but if this is close to correct it is embarrassing, 6.5M per new hire?
Does anyone honestly think that there will not be a significant loss of personnel with the shutdown to the affected government agencies?

Those eager to help President Trump spend $5 billion girding the southern frontier against largely imaginary threats, and perhaps shut down part of the government to do it, should consider the administration’s stewardship of border security funds so far.

Take, for example, its attempt to dramatically expand the Border Patrol, which has produced a spasm of spending to no apparent avail.

A border surge was such a priority for the president that he made it part of an executive order within a week of his inauguration. The same order that called for the construction of Trump’s oft-promised “big, beautiful” border wall — never mind that, two years later, he has yet to get Congress (or Mexico) to pay for it — also called for adding 5,000 agents to the Border Patrol, a roughly 25 percent increase. And yet a new internal investigation finds that the agency hasn’t begun to effect a hiring spree.

Last year, in a panicked response to Trump’s executive order, U.S. Customs and Border Protection agreed to pay the consulting firm Accenture nearly $300 million over five years to add 7,500 to the payrolls of the Border Patrol and two other agencies. Members of Congress and others soon raised concerns that have now been substantiated by the Homeland Security Department’s inspector general.


Calling for officials’ “immediate attention,” the inspector general’s report says that 10 months into the contract, the government had paid Accenture more than $13 million to complete a grand total of two hires. Moreover, according to the report, the agency was doing much of the work that the company had agreed to do. While Customs and Border Protection maintains that Accenture did put in place a “hiring structure” and lay other important groundwork for recruitment, the time allotted for the startup phase of the contract was only three months, later extended to six months.

The results, or lack thereof, reflect on the administration’s dubious goals as well as its incompetence in implementing them. Even at its current complement, Customs and Border Protection is the largest federal law enforcement agency, having more than doubled in size since 2000 at a time when illegal immigration from Mexico has generally ebbed. The agency also suffers from long-standing hiring and retention difficulties that have left it perpetually lagging the staffing level previously mandated by Congress, let alone exceeding it by 5,000.

Even without wasting another dime on Trump’s multibillion-dollar monument, the federal government has spent lavishly on border security with diminishing returns.

[Got Stripers]

It’s all about the distraction his MO and keeping his base engaged, why more republicans have not abanded the sinking Trump Tower of BS is frankly disturbing and amazing.
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[Got Stripers]

I think Phillip Rivers should take one out of Trumps playbook and refuse to take the field until the offensive line promises him a wall to throw behind🤣.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I think Phillip Rivers should take one out of Trumps playbook and refuse to take the field until the offensive line promises him a wall to throw behind🤣.
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Good one
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[wdmso]

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur?

and the Source for this information Homeland Security


So I guess if you walk to the USA your not welcome if you can afford to fly here we assume your not getting a Government hand out ... so your lower on the list and less likely to be involved in the drug trade or a rapist or a criminal .. so please be patient will deport you once we get rid of those who Walked here 1st...

[Got Stripers]

I really feel for the government workers who are getting a royal screwing over this political BS, but clearly Trump doesn't care. For him to stand there and suggest all these workers are in his corner is just another lie; big shocker there.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I really feel for the government workers who are getting a royal screwing over this political BS, but clearly Trump doesn't care. For him to stand there and suggest all these workers are in his corner is just another lie; big shocker there.

He thinks they’re all democratic’s any way

Trumps hurting Americans to help Americans. It’s the same with the farmers

And his supporters have framed everything in literal terms aka wall
Or collusion The details are of no concern
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

and you still have yet to address why in 2 years and control of both houses no wall but as soon as dems take the house There is suddenly a crisis ...

All your effort has been to Support Trump by any lie or excuse necessary ... just like the russian thing I remember the outrage over the Jeremiah Wright controversy

But Putin and russia is all fake news LOL

"and you still have yet to address why in 2 years and control of both houses no wall "

I have said multiple times, that Trump and the GOP ,deserve a LOT of criticism for not doing a damn thing for two years. I don't know what else to say. I would happily endorse replacing these Republicans with ones who would have gotten that done. Many, many right-leaning voters are furious that they did nothing for two years. What else do you want me to say? It's not enough to make me switch parties, but it's enough for me to say they blew it and deserve to be replaced. Because they waited, innocent federal workers are getting hurt, and that's disgusting to me. Is that fair enough?

I answered that. Now perhaps YOU can show me the same courtesy, and tell us why all the democratic leaders were all for expanded barriers in 2006 and 2013, but no wall of a sudden, walls are immoral and don't work?

I haven't seen a single issue expose just how ineffective and ugly our political process has become. This is what happens when you vote for people based on how pretty and popular they are.

"All your effort has been to Support Trump by any lie or excuse "

You have serious, serious issues either with memory or comprehension, if you believe that.

" remember the outrage over the Jeremiah Wright controversy"

I was outraged over Obama's relationship with the deranged Wright. I didn't say Obama deserved to be impeached for it.

[Got Stripers]

The Coast Guard is attempting to control the flow of boats, especially in areas in which illegal immigration is rampant, such as the waters next to San Diego and in parts of Florida. However, if one is truly concerned with security, especially with the inflow of terrorists, and you put such a high priority on a wall at our southern boarder and continued high security at legal ports of entry, think about how poorly our coasts are protected.

[Pete F.]

Trumps 2018 HSE budget was 44 Billion
Trumps proposed 2019 HSE budget was 47.5 Billion
What is his current HSE budget?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"and you still have yet to address why in 2 years and control of both houses no wall "



I answered that. Now perhaps YOU can show me the same courtesy, and tell us why all the democratic leaders were all for expanded barriers in 2006 and 2013, but no wall of a sudden, walls are immoral and don't work?

I

It’s very simple in 2016 and 2013 they were negotiations and agreements and in the end signed by the potus

this wall funding demanded from Trimp is solely based on losing the midterm ... and being scolded by Ann and rush And using the shut down as cover That is what separates them
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

It’s very simple in 2016 and 2013 they were negotiations and agreements and in the end signed by the potus

this wall funding demanded from Trimp is solely based on losing the midterm ... and being scolded by Ann and rush And using the shut down as cover That is what separates them
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you dodged, and i mean comoletely. why are the same folks who said recently we need a wall to address the crisis, now saying we don’t? what changed? why were the dems in favor of the wall then, but not
now? Answer - Trump.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur?

and the Source for this information Homeland Security


So I guess if you walk to the USA your not welcome if you can afford to fly here we assume your not getting a Government hand out ... so your lower on the list and less likely to be involved in the drug trade or a rapist or a criminal .. so please be patient will deport you once we get rid of those who Walked here 1st...

Are you trying to say that we should not be trying to do everything we can to stop 304, 000 illegals from trying to cross the southern border because there are supposedly more coming from another direction?

And that 304,000 is APPREHENDED. That doesn't count those many thousands who were not apprehended. It is said that for every one who is apprehended, there is one who isn't.

A USA Today article (Alan Gomez, USA TODAY Published 11:31 a.m. ET May 22, 2017 | Updated 6:21 p.m. ET May 22, 2017) "People who overstay their visas make up an estimated 40% of the 11 million undocumented immigrants who live in the U.S. They are largely overshadowed by undocumented immigrants who cross the southwest border with Mexico."

Trump made an executive order to install a biometric system like one that had been suggested by the 9/11 commission, which Congress approved in 2004 and appropriated funds for it several times, but it was not put in place until Trump did the executive order.

Both problems need to be addressed. It's not one or the other. Trump has instituted a system that Congress approved but didn't make operative. For the southern border, he is trying to make happen that which Congress had previously approved but didn't completely follow through on.

What's your point?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

The Coast Guard is attempting to control the flow of boats, especially in areas in which illegal immigration is rampant, such as the waters next to San Diego and in parts of Florida. However, if one is truly concerned with security, especially with the inflow of terrorists, and you put such a high priority on a wall at our southern boarder and continued high security at legal ports of entry, think about how poorly our coasts are protected.

If we can also do a better job of protecting the coasts, we should.

[Pete F.]

I saw a suggestion that the government sell Wall Bonds to fund the wall.
If all the people (42% of 250,000,000 eligible voters) who support building a wall bought a $50 bond it would come pretty close to the regime's current demands.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I saw a suggestion that the government sell Wall Bonds to fund the wall.
If all the people (42% of 250,000,000 eligible voters) who support building a wall bought a $50 bond it would come pretty close to the regime's current demands.

Since the wall will pay for itself, many times over, he could also easily offer a very preferential interest rate.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you dodged, and i mean comoletely. why are the same folks who said recently we need a wall to address the crisis, now saying we don’t? what changed? why were the dems in favor of the wall then, but not
now? Answer - Trump.
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You just keep looking for another angle to support Trump . So you think there was a national emergency in 2013 and 2016

Yet it went away in 2017 and 2018 no crisis but flared up again after the mid terms ... most here have been very consistent on why we are against the wall .. trump and company change daily
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Are you trying to say that we should not be trying to do everything we can to stop 304, 000 illegals from trying to cross the southern border because there are supposedly more coming from another direction?

And that 304,000 is APPREHENDED. That doesn't count those many thousands who were not apprehended. It is said that for every one who is apprehended, there is one who isn't.

A USA Today article (Alan Gomez, USA TODAY Published 11:31 a.m. ET May 22, 2017 | Updated 6:21 p.m. ET May 22, 2017) "People who overstay their visas make up an estimated 40% of the 11 million undocumented immigrants who live in the U.S. They are largely overshadowed by undocumented immigrants who cross the southwest border with Mexico."

Trump made an executive order to install a biometric system like one that had been suggested by the 9/11 commission, which Congress approved in 2004 and appropriated funds for it several times, but it was not put in place until Trump did the executive order.

Both problems need to be addressed. It's not one or the other. Trump has instituted a system that Congress approved but didn't make operative. For the southern border, he is trying to make happen that which Congress had previously approved but didn't completely follow through on.

What's your point?

Trumps more worried about those who get here via walking that’s all
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You just keep looking for another angle to support Trump . So you think there was a national emergency in 2013 and 2016

Yet it went away in 2017 and 2018 no crisis but flared up again after the mid terms ... most here have been very consistent on why we are against the wall .. trump and company change daily
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not sure how skilled
you are at reading...the problem/crisis whatever has been there a long time. the gop has two years to get it done and failed, and they all deserve heavy, heavy criticism.

i also think the dems who did a 180 on this issue on the day trump took the oath, also should get
pink slips.

i was honestly critical of
my side, because they deserve it. can you do the same?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trumps more worried about those who get here via walking that’s all
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I don't know who he's more "worried" about. And I don't know why I should care which one he's more worried about. He's addressing both issues with whatever technology is available.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

not sure how skilled
you are at reading...the problem/crisis whatever has been there a long time.

i also think the dems who did a 180 on this issue on the day trump took the oath, also should get
pink slips.

i was honestly critical of
my side, because they deserve it. can you do the same?
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the gop has two years to get it done and failed, and they all deserve heavy, heavy criticism.


But but its the Dems fault ok