Sarah Sanders of her rocker

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

It's 30 degrees outside.

so in the early summer, you take your door off the hinges? houses don’t have doors in San Diego?

you sure showed me there.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"We can’t do anything till we study it
Would you say that about Trump’s Wall"

Yes, I would say that. So let's see what happened in San Diego and Yuma, when they expanded barriers. Or on Israel's southern border, where a wall was build not to keep out terrorists, but to keep out illegal immigrants. And let's see how many people build houses without doors. Barriers work. Anyone who says otherwise, is an idiot. Your "conflicting" evidence might show that walls aren't perfect. But no one is saying they are.

By what logic do walls not help keep people out of places where we don't want them to be?

You're talking nonsense. Sheer nonsense. You have a door on your house? How come? A master thief could still get in, right?

So if you want a impenetrable house will doors do it?
And do you need an alarm system?
Which is the greater deterrent to a master thief, the door or the electronic device?
I guarantee you a standard door is one kick

What will the wall do here?


Why did Trump's budget for border wall go from 1.6 billion to a ransom demand of 5.7 billion?
Here is what his FY 2019 budget issued in February of 2018 called for
"Critical investments include $1.6 billion for construction of the border wall and $782 million to hire and
support 2,750 additional law enforcement officers and agents at U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)."

[Pete F.]

So just what source would be believable?

The climate of the United States is strongly connected to the changing global climate. The statements below highlight past, current, and projected climate changes for the United States and the globe.

Global annually averaged surface air temperature has increased by about 1.8°F (1.0°C) over the last 115 years (1901–2016). This period is now the warmest in the history of modern civilization. The last few years have also seen record-breaking, climate-related weather extremes, and the last three years have been the warmest years on record for the globe. These trends are expected to continue over climate timescales.

This assessment concludes, based on extensive evidence, that it is extremely likely that human activities, especially emissions of greenhouse gases, are the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century. For the warming over the last century, there is no convincing alternative explanation supported by the extent of the observational evidence.

In addition to warming, many other aspects of global climate are changing, primarily in response to human activities. Thousands of studies conducted by researchers around the world have documented changes in surface, atmospheric, and oceanic temperatures; melting glaciers; diminishing snow cover; shrinking sea ice; rising sea levels; ocean acidification; and increasing atmospheric water vapor.

For example, global average sea level has risen by about 7–8 inches since 1900, with almost half (about 3 inches) of that rise occurring since 1993. Human-caused climate change has made a substantial contribution to this rise since 1900, contributing to a rate of rise that is greater than during any preceding century in at least 2,800 years. Global sea level rise has already affected the United States; the incidence of daily tidal flooding is accelerating in more than 25 Atlantic and Gulf Coast cities.

Global average sea levels are expected to continue to rise—by at least several inches in the next 15 years and by 1–4 feet by 2100. A rise of as much as 8 feet by 2100 cannot be ruled out. Sea level rise will be higher than the global average on the East and Gulf Coasts of the United States.

Changes in the characteristics of extreme events are particularly important for human safety, infrastructure, agriculture, water quality and quantity, and natural ecosystems. Heavy rainfall is increasing in intensity and frequency across the United States and globally and is expected to continue to increase. The largest observed changes in the United States have occurred in the Northeast.

Heatwaves have become more frequent in the United States since the 1960s, while extreme cold temperatures and cold waves are less frequent. Recent record-setting hot years are projected to become common in the near future for the United States, as annual average temperatures continue to rise. Annual average temperature over the contiguous United States has increased by 1.8°F (1.0°C) for the period 1901–2016; over the next few decades (2021–2050), annual average temperatures are expected to rise by about 2.5°F for the United States, relative to the recent past (average from 1976–2005), under all plausible future climate scenarios.

The incidence of large forest fires in the western United States and Alaska has increased since the early 1980s and is projected to further increase in those regions as the climate changes, with profound changes to regional ecosystems.

Annual trends toward earlier spring melt and reduced snowpack are already affecting water resources in the western United States and these trends are expected to continue. Under higher scenarios, and assuming no change to current water resources management, chronic, long-duration hydrological drought is increasingly possible before the end of this century.

The magnitude of climate change beyond the next few decades will depend primarily on the amount of greenhouse gases (especially carbon dioxide) emitted globally. Without major reductions in emissions, the increase in annual average global temperature relative to preindustrial times could reach 9°F (5°C) or more by the end of this century. With significant reductions in emissions, the increase in annual average global temperature could be limited to 3.6°F (2°C) or less.

The global atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration has now passed 400 parts per million (ppm), a level that last occurred about 3 million years ago, when both global average temperature and sea level were significantly higher than today. Continued growth in CO2 emissions over this century and beyond would lead to an atmospheric concentration not experienced in tens to hundreds of millions of years. There is broad consensus that the further and the faster the Earth system is pushed towards warming, the greater the risk of unanticipated changes and impacts, some of which are potentially large and irreversible.

The observed increase in carbon emissions over the past 15–20 years has been consistent with higher emissions pathways. In 2014 and 2015, emission growth rates slowed as economic growth became less carbon-intensive. Even if this slowing trend continues, however, it is not yet at a rate that would limit global average temperature change to well below 3.6°F (2°C) above preindustrial levels.
https://science2017.globalchange.gov...utive-summary/
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[wdmso]

late Senator McCain Put climate action in simple terms (i am paraphrasing) his basic premise was

if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air

and Climate change doesn't happen as expected what harm have we done? compared to doing nothing .....

its a much different stance than todays GOP denial its man made or that some how it will destroy the economy..

I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all

oil and gas extraction employment has increased 16 percent since 2009, correlating directly with the shale revolution that has taken place during that time. By comparison, DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry


According to the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), renewable energy employment alone (excluding efficiency) grew by nearly 18 percent between Q2 2015 and Q1 2016. The agency reports that 3,384,834 Americans were directly employed by the clean energy industry


Coal employment averaged 6,550 in Kentucky in the first quarter of 2017 when Trump was sworn in, according to the state Energy and Environment Cabinet.

The estimated average in the July-through-September quarter this year was 6,381,

Trump's U.S. Coal Consumption Is Less Than Obama's

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

late Senator McCain Put climate action in simple terms (i am paraphrasing) his basic premise was

if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air

and Climate change doesn't happen as expected what harm have we done? compared to doing nothing .....

its a much different stance than todays GOP denial its man made or that some how it will destroy the economy..

I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all

oil and gas extraction employment has increased 16 percent since 2009, correlating directly with the shale revolution that has taken place during that time. By comparison, DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry


According to the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), renewable energy employment alone (excluding efficiency) grew by nearly 18 percent between Q2 2015 and Q1 2016. The agency reports that 3,384,834 Americans were directly employed by the clean energy industry


Coal employment averaged 6,550 in Kentucky in the first quarter of 2017 when Trump was sworn in, according to the state Energy and Environment Cabinet.

The estimated average in the July-through-September quarter this year was 6,381,

Trump's U.S. Coal Consumption Is Less Than Obama's

"if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air"

I agree 100% with that sentence.

"and Climate change doesn't happen as expected"

That is a "maybe".

"harm have we done?"

well, for one, where did we talk about the cost of switching to renewable energy? Hybrid cars are insanely expensive. Geothermal systems in homes are insanely expensive. If we mandate those things, you think that has no impact on the middle class, or on business?

And then, where do we get all the electricity needed? because liberals are opposed to nuclear plants which produce massive amounts of dirt cheap electricity. Do we all spend all day, rubbing balloons on our heads to power all these batteries?

"I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all "

I have no idea what that sentence means, no idea.

"DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry

Many of whom will be disrupted by switching to green energy.

The switch is coming, it will be a good change, and we should be investing in it. And we are.

I believe in climate change. I'm not a zealot or a disciple.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air"

I agree 100% with that sentence.

It's great when you state the obvious and people agree with you


"I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all "

I have no idea what that sentence means, no idea.

frequent occurrence probably your fault and inability to understand gibberish

"DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry

Many of whom will be disrupted by switching to green energy.

The switch is coming, it will be a good change, and we should be investing in it. And we are.

shhhhh....don't disrupt the narrative

I believe in climate change. I'm not a zealot or a disciple.

I heard on the news this morning it's so cold in the midwest that people's eyeballs are freezing and forecasters are warning people not to breathe or talk....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

I heard on the news this morning it's so cold in the midwest that people's eyeballs are freezing and forecasters are warning people not to breathe or talk....

That's why they switched it from global warming, to climate change. That way, unless nothing ever changes, they are correct and you're a science denier if you disagree.

But in NY, they are lighting up buildings to celebrate the fact that babies can be aborted for any reason, up until the moment of labor, because even at that moment, it's not a human being. And I am the science denier.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry

Many of whom will be disrupted by switching to green energy.

.

This is the false claims I was referring to ^^^^^

Fossil fuel jobs grew along side green jobs

There is No massive disruption and the elevated claims of cost are also a red herring.. solar cost have come down
A new Tesla is like 45 what’s a Ford F-150
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This is the false claims I was referring to ^^^^^

Fossil fuel jobs grew along side green jobs

There is No massive disruption and the elevated claims of cost are also a red herring.. solar cost have come down
A new Tesla is like 45 what’s a Ford F-150
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"There is No massive disruption "

That's because we haven't mandated a massive shift away from oil towards renewable. I want to prevent that disruption. Of course it hasn't happened yet. because climate zealots aren't running things yet.

"solar cost have come down"

Not much. And state and federal subsidies are vanishing, so it's still very expensive to a middle class person. I put them on my house in 2016. I know what it cost. I leased my system, to buy it, would have been more than $20k, on the roof of a 2750sf house.

"A new Tesla is like 45 "

You think that refutes my point? I can get two Honda Civics for that price. And I can drive them to Florida without making hours-long stops to re-fuel. You are making my case for me.

"what’s a Ford F-150"

You're comparing the dinky little Tesla sedan, to a Ford F150? That makes all kinds of sense!

I can get an F150 for under 30k. And I can drive it to Florida without having to make hours-long stops along the way, to recharge.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This is the false claims I was referring to ^^^^^

Fossil fuel jobs grew along side green jobs

There is No massive disruption and the elevated claims of cost are also a red herring.. solar cost have come down
A new Tesla is like 45 what’s a Ford F-150
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I hope you understand why solar costs came down.
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[Pete F.]

Now denying climate change while professing to believe it’s occurring, Jim somehow conflates it with abortion as a reason why you cannot believe science.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Now denying climate change while professing to believe it’s occurring, Jim somehow conflates it with abortion as a reason why you cannot believe science.
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"Now denying climate change "

Please point to where I denied it's changing. I said multiple times that it's changing.

"Jim somehow conflates it with abortion as a reason why you cannot believe science"

Nope. Your reading comprehension is abysmal. What I said was, it's funny that the side which claims that an about-to-be delivered, full-term baby isn't human, accuses me of denying science. The side that claims that walls don't keep people out, has little to teach me about science.

The left will say or do anything to advance The Narrative. The Narrative checked itself into rehab on the eve of the 2016 election, and now it's back, and it's angry.

[Pete F.]

Here is a really simple analogy for why energy conservation is important and not a great fortune.
The client asked, what's the return on investment for my solar panels, upgraded insulation, more efficient heating system and the answer is: "A lot better than your Granite countertops"
Now if you don't do the upgraded energy items, not only do you pay, but in many cases all the owners of the house do forever.
It's not just about changing the method, it's changing what is valuable to us.

[Sea Dangles]

Simply put,without the subsidies only a fool with money to burn would put in solar.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Simply put,without the subsidies only a fool with money to burn would put in solar.
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geothermal was so expensive, it had a very low return on investment, and only if you stayed in your house forever.

I leased my panels, cost me $0. I save about $400 a year. I will have to pay between 500 and 1,000 when I need a new roof, to take the panels off and put them back on, so that will eat a year of savings. And there's always a risk that when I sell my house, no one wants panels, that's a rick, I had to do a 25 year lease, I'm stuck for 25 years.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Simply put,without the subsidies only a fool with money to burn would put in solar.
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Would you say only a fool would put money into the automobile when Ford floated his idea . because we all ready have the Horse and carriage
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Would you say only a fool would put money into the automobile when Ford floated his idea . because we all ready have the Horse and carriage
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No, you said that.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

No, you said that.
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yep but you were thinking it

[scottw]

the leftists have been feeling very clairvoyant lately

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

yep but you were thinking it

No, you were.
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[Got Stripers]

Boston announced they will ban all carbon based vehicles by 2050 and I heard Ford is moving to all electric on the F150 line, so it’s coming whether we (I won’t be anyway) will be around to witness it is another story. The irony is the technology was available to make that change long before now.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

carbon based vehicles

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what vehicles would this include?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

what vehicles would this include?

Don’t know channel 5 reported it at lunch, without to many details.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Don’t know channel 5 reported it at lunch, without to many details.
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give it a shot...

[Got Stripers]

Solar farms make putting panels up a none starter for sure, plenty of solar opportunities out there, without having to throw panels up on your roof. We joined a solar co-opt and cut our costs without the expense.
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[Pete F.]

"I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times and I think that he wanted Donald Trump to become president," Sanders said. "And that's why he's there, and I think he has done a tremendous job in supporting a lot of the things that people of faith really care about."
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

"I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times and I think that he wanted Donald Trump to become president," Sanders said. "And that's why he's there, and I think he has done a tremendous job in supporting a lot of the things that people of faith really care about."
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I saw that but if i posted it I would be picking on her.


but it will be defended as she is entitled to her 1st amendments rights.. (even if she is the mouthpiece of the administration)

the right will ignore the position she holds and some will hear it a policy and rejoice at Trump divinity the rest all ready believe he was appointed by God anyway

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I saw that but if i posted it I would be picking on her.


but it will be defended as she is entitled to her 1st amendments rights.. (even if she is the mouthpiece of the administration)

the right will ignore the position she holds and some will hear it a policy and rejoice at Trump divinity the rest all ready believe he was appointed by God anyway

you’re right, i see nothing wrong with that statement. trump’s policies, not his personal behavior, are way more in line with christian beliefs, than hilary’s. is this news to you? you didn’t know this?

you and pete are surprised she believes in god? are you offended at any and all references to god?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re right, i see nothing wrong with that statement. trump’s policies, not his personal behavior, are way more in line with christian beliefs, than hilary’s. is this news to you? you didn’t know this?

you and pete are surprised she believes in god? are you offended at any and all references to god?
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Once again you spout gibberish and claim that I said something
And do a typical but Hillary
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

And do a typical but Hillary
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well...that was the choice...Trump or Hillary...remember?