Sarah Sanders of her rocker

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

late Senator McCain Put climate action in simple terms (i am paraphrasing) his basic premise was

if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air

and Climate change doesn't happen as expected what harm have we done? compared to doing nothing .....

its a much different stance than todays GOP denial its man made or that some how it will destroy the economy..

I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all

oil and gas extraction employment has increased 16 percent since 2009, correlating directly with the shale revolution that has taken place during that time. By comparison, DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry


According to the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), renewable energy employment alone (excluding efficiency) grew by nearly 18 percent between Q2 2015 and Q1 2016. The agency reports that 3,384,834 Americans were directly employed by the clean energy industry


Coal employment averaged 6,550 in Kentucky in the first quarter of 2017 when Trump was sworn in, according to the state Energy and Environment Cabinet.

The estimated average in the July-through-September quarter this year was 6,381,

Trump's U.S. Coal Consumption Is Less Than Obama's

"if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air"

I agree 100% with that sentence.

"and Climate change doesn't happen as expected"

That is a "maybe".

"harm have we done?"

well, for one, where did we talk about the cost of switching to renewable energy? Hybrid cars are insanely expensive. Geothermal systems in homes are insanely expensive. If we mandate those things, you think that has no impact on the middle class, or on business?

And then, where do we get all the electricity needed? because liberals are opposed to nuclear plants which produce massive amounts of dirt cheap electricity. Do we all spend all day, rubbing balloons on our heads to power all these batteries?

"I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all "

I have no idea what that sentence means, no idea.

"DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry

Many of whom will be disrupted by switching to green energy.

The switch is coming, it will be a good change, and we should be investing in it. And we are.

I believe in climate change. I'm not a zealot or a disciple.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"if we build renewables we reduce emissions increase gas mileage increase energy efficiency in all areas home business clean our air"

I agree 100% with that sentence.

It's great when you state the obvious and people agree with you


"I dont hear Jim talking about those predictions which haven't happened at all "

I have no idea what that sentence means, no idea.

frequent occurrence probably your fault and inability to understand gibberish

"DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry

Many of whom will be disrupted by switching to green energy.

The switch is coming, it will be a good change, and we should be investing in it. And we are.

shhhhh....don't disrupt the narrative

I believe in climate change. I'm not a zealot or a disciple.

I heard on the news this morning it's so cold in the midwest that people's eyeballs are freezing and forecasters are warning people not to breathe or talk....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

I heard on the news this morning it's so cold in the midwest that people's eyeballs are freezing and forecasters are warning people not to breathe or talk....

That's why they switched it from global warming, to climate change. That way, unless nothing ever changes, they are correct and you're a science denier if you disagree.

But in NY, they are lighting up buildings to celebrate the fact that babies can be aborted for any reason, up until the moment of labor, because even at that moment, it's not a human being. And I am the science denier.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But in NY, they are lighting up buildings to celebrate the fact that babies can be aborted for any reason, up until the moment of labor, because even at that moment, it's not a human being. And I am the science denier.

You continually complain that I am not responding correctly
Explain how this fits in to the discussion
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You continually complain that I am not responding correctly
Explain how this fits in to the discussion
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"You continually complain that I am not responding correctly "

Because you are responding to silly gibberish that no one has ever said.

"Explain how this fits in to the discussion"

So the discussion isn't served if you respond to what I actually say?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"DOE estimated that 2,989,844 Americans were directly employed by the fossil fuel industry

Many of whom will be disrupted by switching to green energy.

.

This is the false claims I was referring to ^^^^^

Fossil fuel jobs grew along side green jobs

There is No massive disruption and the elevated claims of cost are also a red herring.. solar cost have come down
A new Tesla is like 45 what’s a Ford F-150
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This is the false claims I was referring to ^^^^^

Fossil fuel jobs grew along side green jobs

There is No massive disruption and the elevated claims of cost are also a red herring.. solar cost have come down
A new Tesla is like 45 what’s a Ford F-150
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"There is No massive disruption "

That's because we haven't mandated a massive shift away from oil towards renewable. I want to prevent that disruption. Of course it hasn't happened yet. because climate zealots aren't running things yet.

"solar cost have come down"

Not much. And state and federal subsidies are vanishing, so it's still very expensive to a middle class person. I put them on my house in 2016. I know what it cost. I leased my system, to buy it, would have been more than $20k, on the roof of a 2750sf house.

"A new Tesla is like 45 "

You think that refutes my point? I can get two Honda Civics for that price. And I can drive them to Florida without making hours-long stops to re-fuel. You are making my case for me.

"what’s a Ford F-150"

You're comparing the dinky little Tesla sedan, to a Ford F150? That makes all kinds of sense!

I can get an F150 for under 30k. And I can drive it to Florida without having to make hours-long stops along the way, to recharge.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

This is the false claims I was referring to ^^^^^

Fossil fuel jobs grew along side green jobs

There is No massive disruption and the elevated claims of cost are also a red herring.. solar cost have come down
A new Tesla is like 45 what’s a Ford F-150
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I hope you understand why solar costs came down.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I hope you understand why solar costs came down.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The Price Of Power. Even without subsidies, new wind and solar power plants are usually cheaper than new coal, nuclear, or natural gas power plants.

Better technology and panel design

Lower manufacturing costs

Lower soft costs

Soft costs － the costs that are not directly associated with panels inverters, and other

Government investment and financial incentives

Economies of scale and better financing options

So let me guess your reason for lower prices are just subsidies?
Like oil companies? I can only guess . because you never stated a reason
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

The Price Of Power. Even without subsidies, new wind and solar power plants are usually cheaper than new coal, nuclear, or natural gas power plants.

Better technology and panel design

Lower manufacturing costs

Lower soft costs

Soft costs － the costs that are not directly associated with panels inverters, and other

Government investment and financial incentives

Economies of scale and better financing options

So let me guess your reason for lower prices are just subsidies?
Like oil companies? I can only guess . because you never stated a reason
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Even without subsidies, new wind and solar power plants are usually cheaper than new coal, nuclear, or natural gas power plants. "

Wow. Wind is cheaper than nuclear, to generate electricity? Maybe when talking about a house or two. Not when talking about 300 million people.

If what you said is true, why are developers still building homes and building with systems powered by natural gas and oil?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Even without subsidies, new wind and solar power plants are usually cheaper than new coal, nuclear, or natural gas power plants. "

Wow. Wind is cheaper than nuclear, to generate electricity? Maybe when talking about a house or two. Not when talking about 300 million people.

If what you said is true, why are developers still building homes and building with systems powered by natural gas and oil?

You got a Myopic view just because it’s not happening every place it’s Not happening ?

How long did it take the country to move from heating a house with wood to coal to oil to gas ... or electric or pellets or a little of both I call it progress slow and steady
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You got a Myopic view just because it’s not happening every place it’s Not happening ?

How long did it take the country to move from heating a house with wood to coal to oil to gas ... or electric or pellets or a little of both I call it progress slow and steady
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"just because it’s not happening every place it’s Not happening ?"

Do you hear voices in your head? Are the voices telling you that I'm saying these things?

If green was cheaper, we'd all be doing it. It's not, so we aren't.

When we had our house built, we looked at a development that was all solar and geothermal. The houses had an enormous price tag, because that stuff is still very expensive.

"I call it progress slow and steady"

I agree 100%. Slow and steady. I AGREE WITH YOU. I don't want massive, sudden disruptions, that aren't based on good science. That's all I'm saying.