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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
07-31-2019, 03:15 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Dropped your straw again didn't ya.
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Jeff,the straw part can obviously be consuming but with a little understanding on all parts we will get through this. I promise you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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07-31-2019, 03:24 PM
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#32
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
i agree trump is weak.
that doesn’t support your demonstrably ludicrous claim, that if one chooses to act like a non racist, that he won’t get called a racist. this has nothing o do with trump, he’s one of many people
labeled as racist after beating the left.
george w bush has done far more for africa than any human being who has ever lived, saved the lives of more than a million africans thanks to his work with aids and malaria. but he was a racist.
McCains thanks for telling people
not to be afraid of obama, was being labeled a racist.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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A columnist, Jane Coaston, recently wrote this about just this subject.
I’ve been writing on conservatism and the right for several years. As part of that work, I spend most of my time reading right-leaning news outlets and opinion journals and talking to conservatives — fiscal conservatives and social conservatives, Trump-supportive, Trump-adjacent, and Trump-skeptical.
And in those travels, there’s an argument I hear a lot, particularly in the past week — that had liberals not been so quick to call some on the right, or some ideas on the right, racist, perhaps the right would not have resorted to uniting behind Donald Trump.
What if, in truth, the conservative movement’s inability to self-police itself against racism and establish firm guardrails against racists in the movement has resulted in an American right increasingly beholden to racism and racist arguments?
And what if, in truth, it’s the left that has seen this most clearly and that has been pointing it out again and again? Perhaps, if your movement has ultimately rallied around a racist, allegedly in response to being called racist, that’s evidence that the people who saw the power racist arguments held in your movement, and the frequency with which those views were referenced, were onto something all along.
Viewed in this light, the popularity of this excuse — the idea that if the left hadn’t been pointing out racism on the right, the right never would have embraced a racist as its leader — is the same denial that got conservatives into this mess perpetuating itself.
Right-leaning racism, weaponized
To begin with, the term “racism” includes ideas, policies, and actions that are based in prejudicial attitudes against people based on their real or perceived racial or ethnic identity and qualities associated with that background.
And it should be clear by now that racism, like any form of prejudice, has gradations. Not all racism is the racism of the men who murdered 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955. Sometimes it’s the racism of middle-class white liberals who fervently oppose school desegregation efforts in major cities under the belief that the presence of black children would result in plummeting school quality. Sometimes it is the racism of the benighted “racial realists” who arrived at the conclusion that nonwhite people are inferior and have spent the past several centuries working to backfill an explanation. And sometimes it’s the racism of a Donald Trump, who, as I wrote last year, was shocked that members of the Congressional Black Caucus didn’t already know Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson.
And very rarely do racists think of themselves as racist. As former Alabama Gov. George Wallace, the man who once said, “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever,” said in an interview in 1968, “No, sir, I don’t regard myself as a racist, and I think the biggest racists in the world are those who call other folks racist. I think the biggest bigots in the world are those who call other folks bigots.”
But the kind of racism that’s most common in movement conservatism — by which I mean the political project of conservatism, with the intent of winning elections and changing policy and law — is what I call “instrumentalized” racism, the deliberate use of racism and racist tropes for the sole purpose of winning votes and elections.
People who engage in instrumentalized racism do so not necessarily because they themselves are “racist” on an individual level, but because they believe that voters will respond — and perhaps only respond — to racism. (After losing an election in 1958 to John Patterson, who had a devoted Klan following, Wallace allegedly said that he would never let a political adversary “out-ni**er” him again.) They can thus brag about the great work they’ve done on behalf of minority communities and their lack of racist bones while simultaneously wielding racism as a political cudgel — a cudgel they argue is necessary.
After all, even Patterson said in 2008 of his past racist invective, “When I became governor, there were 14 of us running for governor that time and all 14 of us were outspoken for segregation in the public schools. And if you had been perceived not to have been strong for that, you would not have won. I regret that, but there was not anything I could do about it but to live with it.” And Wallace famously said of his own campaigns, “You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about ni**ers, and they stomped the floor.”
But instrumentalized racism, of course, continued long after the fall of de jure Jim Crow. The 2000 Republican primary gave a tremendous (and considerably more recent) example of the genre:
In the 2000 Republican presidential primary then-Governor George Bush of Texas was running against Senator John McCain of Arizona. McCain won the New Hampshire primary and the race went on to South Carolina where the Bush campaign knew they had to stop McCain. Using a tried and true strategy, the phony poll, opponents of McCain spread a complete falsehood. Phone calls to South Carolina Republican voters asked “Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain … if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?” McCain and his wife Cindy had adopted a dark-skinned girl from Bangladesh in 1991 and that child, Bridget, was campaigning with them in South Carolina. |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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07-31-2019, 03:39 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Wow,PeteF. That is a fascinating opinion from a genuine expert on conservatism. Solid reporting as usual.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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07-31-2019, 04:29 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
A columnist, Jane Coaston, recently wrote this about just this subject.
I’ve been writing on conservatism and the right for several years. As part of that work, I spend most of my time reading right-leaning news outlets and opinion journals and talking to conservatives — fiscal conservatives and social conservatives, Trump-supportive, Trump-adjacent, and Trump-skeptical.
And in those travels, there’s an argument I hear a lot, particularly in the past week — that had liberals not been so quick to call some on the right, or some ideas on the right, racist, perhaps the right would not have resorted to uniting behind Donald Trump.
What if, in truth, the conservative movement’s inability to self-police itself against racism and establish firm guardrails against racists in the movement has resulted in an American right increasingly beholden to racism and racist arguments?
And what if, in truth, it’s the left that has seen this most clearly and that has been pointing it out again and again? Perhaps, if your movement has ultimately rallied around a racist, allegedly in response to being called racist, that’s evidence that the people who saw the power racist arguments held in your movement, and the frequency with which those views were referenced, were onto something all along.
Viewed in this light, the popularity of this excuse — the idea that if the left hadn’t been pointing out racism on the right, the right never would have embraced a racist as its leader — is the same denial that got conservatives into this mess perpetuating itself.
Right-leaning racism, weaponized
To begin with, the term “racism” includes ideas, policies, and actions that are based in prejudicial attitudes against people based on their real or perceived racial or ethnic identity and qualities associated with that background.
And it should be clear by now that racism, like any form of prejudice, has gradations. Not all racism is the racism of the men who murdered 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955. Sometimes it’s the racism of middle-class white liberals who fervently oppose school desegregation efforts in major cities under the belief that the presence of black children would result in plummeting school quality. Sometimes it is the racism of the benighted “racial realists” who arrived at the conclusion that nonwhite people are inferior and have spent the past several centuries working to backfill an explanation. And sometimes it’s the racism of a Donald Trump, who, as I wrote last year, was shocked that members of the Congressional Black Caucus didn’t already know Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson.
And very rarely do racists think of themselves as racist. As former Alabama Gov. George Wallace, the man who once said, “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever,” said in an interview in 1968, “No, sir, I don’t regard myself as a racist, and I think the biggest racists in the world are those who call other folks racist. I think the biggest bigots in the world are those who call other folks bigots.”
But the kind of racism that’s most common in movement conservatism — by which I mean the political project of conservatism, with the intent of winning elections and changing policy and law — is what I call “instrumentalized” racism, the deliberate use of racism and racist tropes for the sole purpose of winning votes and elections.
People who engage in instrumentalized racism do so not necessarily because they themselves are “racist” on an individual level, but because they believe that voters will respond — and perhaps only respond — to racism. (After losing an election in 1958 to John Patterson, who had a devoted Klan following, Wallace allegedly said that he would never let a political adversary “out-ni**er” him again.) They can thus brag about the great work they’ve done on behalf of minority communities and their lack of racist bones while simultaneously wielding racism as a political cudgel — a cudgel they argue is necessary.
After all, even Patterson said in 2008 of his past racist invective, “When I became governor, there were 14 of us running for governor that time and all 14 of us were outspoken for segregation in the public schools. And if you had been perceived not to have been strong for that, you would not have won. I regret that, but there was not anything I could do about it but to live with it.” And Wallace famously said of his own campaigns, “You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about ni**ers, and they stomped the floor.”
But instrumentalized racism, of course, continued long after the fall of de jure Jim Crow. The 2000 Republican primary gave a tremendous (and considerably more recent) example of the genre:
In the 2000 Republican presidential primary then-Governor George Bush of Texas was running against Senator John McCain of Arizona. McCain won the New Hampshire primary and the race went on to South Carolina where the Bush campaign knew they had to stop McCain. Using a tried and true strategy, the phony poll, opponents of McCain spread a complete falsehood. Phone calls to South Carolina Republican voters asked “Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain … if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?” McCain and his wife Cindy had adopted a dark-skinned girl from Bangladesh in 1991 and that child, Bridget, was campaigning with them in South Carolina.
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Big whoop, you found someone who no one has ever heard of, who thinks the GOP is racist. Doesn't make it so Pete. If I post an article saying Obama wasn't born here, would you believe it.
God almighty. Unless every single liberal agrees that the GOP isn't racist, they are racist. That's what you're saying?
If one random person says the GOP is racist, that's good enough for you! But when MLK's niece says that Trump isn't racist, you are not swayed by that. You assume everyone who agrees with you is 100% credible, and everyone who disagrees with you has zero credibility. You are exactly that simple minded
Pete, we get it. every single post of yours, EVERY SINGLE one, can be boiled down to liberal=good, conservative=bad.
Why did I resume responding to you? |
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07-31-2019, 04:32 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Wow,PeteF. That is a fascinating opinion from a genuine expert on conservatism. Solid reporting as usual.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Hey if she (whoever she is) says we're racist, we better all switch to the democratic party. Who are we to question her?
Funny she said it was racism to falsely imply that McCain had an affair. But she didn't see any racism when the democrats tried to railroad Clarence Thomas, by using the old Klan notion that black men can't be trusted around women, THAT wasn't racist, not according to Jane Coaston.
All hail Jane Coaston! |
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07-31-2019, 04:45 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Funny she said it was racism to falsely imply that McCain had an affair. But she didn't see any racism when the democrats tried to railroad Clarence Thomas, by using the old Klan notion that black men can't be trusted around women, THAT wasn't racist, not according to Jane Coaston.
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Actually that was a black woman accusing a black man of harassment. |
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07-31-2019, 04:49 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,302
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Come on, it is inconceivable that a Repub. Pres. would say anything racist.
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07-31-2019, 05:05 PM
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#38
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Come on, it is inconceivable that a Repub. Pres. would say anything racist.
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No, it’s not inconceivable. But is it any less inconceivable that what came out of his mouth wasn’t based on racism, but good ole azzhole-ism.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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07-31-2019, 05:10 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
No, it’s not inconceivable. But is it any less inconceivable that what came out of his mouth wasn’t based on racism, but good ole azzhole-ism.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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If it was #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&ism he would have use something other than a racist term. I didn't hear the other Republican president scolding him for the use of that term either.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 05:18 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,302
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Occam's razor
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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07-31-2019, 05:34 PM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Occam's straw
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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fixed it  |
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07-31-2019, 05:51 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
fixed it |
You don’t need to discount Dangles like that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 06:13 PM
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#43
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
If it was #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&ism he would have use something other than a racist term. I didn't hear the other Republican president scolding him for the use of that term either.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Rat infested is a racist term?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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07-31-2019, 06:34 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Rat infested is a racist term?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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You do know I'm talking about Reagan and Nixon right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 06:41 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
You don’t need to discount Dangles like that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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c'mon...that was funny |
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07-31-2019, 06:48 PM
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#46
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
You do know I'm talking about Reagan and Nixon right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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I'm still trying to figure out how I was supposed to know that 
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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07-31-2019, 06:53 PM
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
I'm still trying to figure out how I was supposed to know that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
There is a tape that came out today Regan calling Nixon up. Look it up and see what Reagan said
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 06:53 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
I'm still trying to figure out how I was supposed to know that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
it's mostly nonsensical babble...just nod and pretend you understand what the hell they are whining about |
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07-31-2019, 06:55 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Come on, it is inconceivable that a Repub. Pres. would say anything racist.
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never said that. but your side says it’s racist every time
he’s a jerk to a black person.’ or when he says baltimore is a failing city with a rat problem.
paul, you are by far the most reasonable
if these guys. please stop claiming that we are saying republicans can’t be racist. but just disagreeing with democrats, isn’t necessarily racist.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 06:57 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
If it was #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&ism he would have use something other than a racist term. I didn't hear the other Republican president scolding him for the use of that term either.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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what racist term?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 06:57 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
I'm still trying to figure out how I was supposed to know that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
i assumed we were talking about trump too...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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07-31-2019, 07:27 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Actually that was a black woman accusing a black man of harassment.
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Is this a straw based theory?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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07-31-2019, 07:29 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
There is a tape that came out today Regan calling Nixon up. Look it up and see what Reagan said
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Keep proving how smart you can be. Like the other not so smarties.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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07-31-2019, 07:31 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Stupid azz Fuchs trying to make a point.
Haja
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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