Can you imagine a worse reason to start a civil war?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Detbuch, do you know if the Europeans did, in fact, pony up more?

I don't know. Trump's reasoning is what is in question, not if Trump's opinion about the Europeans need to give more is correct. And it wasn't simply about money aid. In the phone call in question, Zelensky specifically said the Europeans needed to do more re sanctions on Russia. And Pete F. keeps bringing up the EU as a whole, whereas Trump was referring to individual Euro countries.

Is there legitimate, credible evidence to suggest aid was withheld to get the Europeans to help more, rather than to pressure them on Biden? Or is it all he said / she said?

It has not been a secret that Trump believed that the Europeans were not assisting as much as he though they should. He had stated it several times including to the NATO Secretary General. The limited time left to OK the aid is why he did finally OK it. Congressman Rob Portman corroborated Trump's reasoning. He had discussed with Trump the necessity of getting the aid without further delay, and he said that the only reason that Trump said he wanted to delay it was that the Europeans were not doing enough. (And Portman agreed with him). Trump claims that after he put a hold on the aid and why, he got calls from some that they were willing to pony up more. That could be a "he said." I don't know. But Ken Vogel reported in the NYT that Ukraine didn't know until a month after the call that a hold had been put on the aid. It's a hell of a way to bribe someone when you haven't revealed to that person what the bribe is.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It has not been a secret that Trump believed that the Europeans were not assisting as much as he though they should. He had stated it several times including to the NATO Secretary General. The limited time left to OK the aid is why he did finally OK it. Congressman Rob Portman corroborated Trump's reasoning. He had discussed with Trump the necessity of getting the aid without further delay, and he said that the only reason that Trump said he wanted to delay it was that the Europeans were not doing enough. (And Portman agreed with him). Trump claims that after he put a hold on the aid and why, he got calls from some that they were willing to pony up more. That could be a "he said." I don't know. But Ken Vogel reported in the NYT that Ukraine didn't know until a month after the call that a hold had been put on the aid. It's a hell of a way to bribe someone when you haven't revealed to that person what the bribe is.

What did Rudy tell Zelensky's representative?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What did Rudy tell Zelensky's representative?

I think that you responded to the wrong post since it has nothing to do with it.

Anyway, I'm just guessing that Trump would have some inclination about that. Certainly more than you.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I think that you responded to the wrong post since it has nothing to do with it.

Anyway, I'm just guessing that Trump would have some inclination about that. Certainly more than you.

You said that Ken Vogel said Zelensky did not know.

Rudy met with Zelensky's rep.

What did Rudy tell Zelensky's representative?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You said that Ken Vogel said Zelensky did not know.

Rudy met with Zelensky's rep.

What did Rudy tell Zelensky's representative?

I said that Vogel said that Zelensky did not know that aid had temporarily been put on hold until a month after the phone call. Are you implying that Rudy told the rep about the withholding of aid? If so, you might want to give Vogel your documentation so he can retract the story.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I said that Vogel said that Zelensky did not know that aid had temporarily been put on hold until a month after the phone call. Are you implying that Rudy told the rep about the withholding of aid? If so, you might want to give Vogel your documentation so he can retract the story.

Why did Rudy meet with him?
What was said?

What has happened in Ukraine lately and why?

Putin's Puppet is making payments on his last election.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Why did Rudy meet with him?
What was said?

Must be some gender-erotic thing. One of those bromance things . . . like Trump and Putin. No doubt, they'd prefer to keep their conversation private. But it will probably be leaked. Or at least a version of it.

What has happened in Ukraine lately and why?

Putin has sent in thousands of those renowned beautiful Russian agent women to seduce the Zelensky's government into surrendering. Trump has taught him to make love not war.

Putin's Puppet is making payments on his last election.

Sounds like a very responsible thing to do.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What did Rudy tell Zelensky's representative?

Don't know what he was saying. He was, for quite some time, asking, investigating. Here is some evidence he came up with:



and: