Watch the Trump Ukraine scandal come back to roost

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

so Wayne, if Baron Trump gets a job with a big Ukrainian company next week it won't be a problem for you? Baron is probably twice as qualified as Hunter Biden was and doesn't have all of the baggage

Only in your world everything is the same..

PS BARRON RECENTLY RECEIVED A HORSE NAMED VICTORIA FROM THE MONGOLIAN GOVERNMENT.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only in your world everything is the same..

PS BARRON RECENTLY RECEIVED A HORSE NAMED VICTORIA FROM THE MONGOLIAN GOVERNMENT.

good grief....

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Mongolian President Battulga Khaltmaa will visit the White House on Wednesday, seeking help from President Donald Trump on trade and military deals - and possibly a name for the horse his government has symbolically gifted to Trump’s 13-year-old son, Barron.


The vast northern nation locked between Russia and China is known for its ancient breed of tough, tiny horses ridden by Genghis Khan and other warlords - and often gives horses to visiting dignitaries.

The horse is unlikely to make the long trip to the United States, a senior U.S. administration official told reporters, though Mongolian officials are eager that it be given a name. Other U.S. dignitaries to receive a symbolic horse in the past include former Vice President Joe Biden, and former defense secretaries Chuck Hagel and Donald Rumsfeld.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

good grief....

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Mongolian President Battulga Khaltmaa will visit the White House on Wednesday, seeking help from President Donald Trump on trade and military deals - and possibly a name for the horse his government has symbolically gifted to Trump’s 13-year-old son, Barron.


The vast northern nation locked between Russia and China is known for its ancient breed of tough, tiny horses ridden by Genghis Khan and other warlords - and often gives horses to visiting dignitaries.

The horse is unlikely to make the long trip to the United States, a senior U.S. administration official told reporters, though Mongolian officials are eager that it be given a name. Other U.S. dignitaries to receive a symbolic horse in the past include former Vice President Joe Biden, and former defense secretaries Chuck Hagel and Donald Rumsfeld.

You brought him up not me..

A symbolic horse to the 13 year old son of a POTUS who loves being stroked.. no way they are trying to seek Trumps Favor ...

Yes they gave it him for exactly the same reason as thoses other pepole you listed... LOL

Ps seems we symbolicly pulled out of Syria to bring Troops home.. To bad they went to Iraq instead ..
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

.

A symbolic horse to the 13 year old son of a POTUS

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clearly a high crime and misdemeanor

[Pete F.]

An interesting look at the legal backdrop surrounding the Ukraine Congressional Inquiry and possible Impeachment

Self-Dealing in Ukraine: The Core of the Impeachment Inquiry

Philip Zelikow is the White Burkett Miller Professor of History at the University of Virginia. He has practiced law and served in various government positions, including as the executive director of the 9/11 Commission.

As the Ukraine story develops, the public focus has remained largely on wrongdoing by the president outside the realm of criminal law, focusing instead on President Trump’s apparent use of his office for personal gain. On one level, this makes sense: Impeachment is only about removal of the president from office, not about criminal prosecution and imprisonment. So the standards and processes for impeachment are different.

But it would be a mistake to ignore the criminal law entirely. Evidence of criminal misconduct, specifically, the federal bribery statute, should influence political judgments about impeachment. After all, “Bribery” is one of the grounds for impeachment specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

Before getting involved in foreign policy work, most of my professional work was in criminal justice. The emerging case should be understood from both of these perspectives. Here, I offer a view of how a public corruption prosecutor might regard the way the case is taking shape. In addition to the role that possible criminal wrongdoing by the president could play in the ongoing impeachment inquiry, evidence about criminal misconduct might also apply, more directly, to the possible investigations of others beyond the president—including Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney.

The core of the impeachment inquiry is about whether Trump engaged in self-dealing, where he used his power in a publicly held enterprise (that is, the government of the United States) for personal gain. Most executives in the private sector know what self-dealing is, and recent headlines about Renault-Nissan or WeWork have reminded them. They also know how most corporate boards would handle a case of self-dealing that involved important programs and sums of money, and in which the CEO had fired executives who interfered with the self-dealing.

continued in the link below

https://www.lawfareblog.com/self-dea...chment-inquiry

[Sea Dangles]

Thank you for sharing PeteF. This may seem enlightening to you.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thank you for sharing PeteF. This may seem enlightening to you.
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🍑🤡
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[Pete F.]

Trump watched his advisory panel this am

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump· 2h
Neither he (Taylor) or any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld. You can’t have a quid pro quo with no quo.” Congressman John Ratcliffe @foxandfriends Where is the Whistleblower? The Do Nothing Dems case is DEAD!

Here's the foolish thing about this line of defense (obfuscation would be more accurate)...the money was held up. If they didn't want something from Ukraine, and Ukraine didn't know the money was being held up, what was the point in holding up the money (which was legally dubious at best).

[Pete F.]

Game over
The problem was not a bureaucratic glitch, the Ukrainians were told then. To address it, they were advised, they should reach out to Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, according to the interviews and records.
The timing of the communications about the issue, which have not previously been reported, shows that Ukraine was aware the White House was holding up the funds weeks earlier than United States and Ukrainian officials had acknowledged. And it means that the Ukrainian government was aware of the freeze during most of the period in August when Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, and two American diplomats were pressing President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine to make a public commitment to the investigations being sought by Mr. Trump.
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[Sea Dangles]

Thank you for sharing your (nothing) 🍔 of the day.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thank you for sharing your (nothing) 🍔 of the day.
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🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑

There’s no quo to go with the quid pro
There is but they didn’t know it
They knew it but?????
🦗🦗🦗
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[Sea Dangles]

Pete, I can tell you are having a rough go of it. Sending good vibes your way.
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[Pete F.]

Do you think maybe he's worried?

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Never Trumper Republicans, though on respirators with not many left, are in certain ways worse and more dangerous for our Country than the Do Nothing Democrats. Watch out for them, they are human scum!
1:48 PM · Oct 23, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Never Trumper Republican John Bellinger, represents Never Trumper Diplomat Bill Taylor (who I don’t know), in testimony before Congress! Do Nothing Democrats allow Republicans Zero Representation, Zero due process, and Zero Transparency....
....Does anybody think this is fair? Even though there was no quid pro quo, I’m sure they would like to try. Worse than the Dems!
It would be really great if the people within the Trump Administration, all well-meaning and good (I hope!), could stop hiring Never Trumpers, who are worse than the Do Nothing Democrats. Nothing good will ever come from them!

[Sea Dangles]

Worried about our country
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Worried about our country
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If he were he’d have talked to security experts, he would have talked to military experts, he would have talked to Jeffreys, before abandoning our allies and giving up a low risk extremely high gain military position in Syria. If anyone is buying into his spinning this today as a great win, is either an idiot or just blind.
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[Sea Dangles]

He cares about you.
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[Got Stripers]

You really are blind, way to much time with your head in the sand, Trump cares about himself, his time in front of the camera and family fortune. But you’d be stepping way out of character, if you ever actually put forth an argument that made any sense and was supported with evidence, other than your one line boring come backs.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You really are blind, way to much time with your head in the sand, Trump cares about himself, his time in front of the camera and family fortune. But you’d be stepping way out of character, if you ever actually put forth an argument that made any sense and was supported with evidence, other than your one line boring come backs.

You keep saying that Trump just cares about himself, and enriching himself by being President. Are you making that true by saying so, or do you have evidence?

According to Forbes, Trump’s Net Worth Has Declined Since Becoming President. Trump has lost $600 million in net worth over the past year, According to Forbes, which tracks the wealth of America’s richest. Forbes estimates Trump’s net worth is now $3.1 billion compared to $3.7 billion at the same point in time last year.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You keep saying that Trump just cares about himself, and enriching himself by being President. Are you making that true by saying so, or do you have evidence?

According to Forbes, Trump’s Net Worth Has Declined Since Becoming President. Trump has lost $600 million in net worth over the past year, According to Forbes, which tracks the wealth of America’s richest. Forbes estimates Trump’s net worth is now $3.1 billion compared to $3.7 billion at the same point in time last year.

Oh Forbes hmmm
https://fortune.com/2018/04/20/trump...rbes-400-list/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalex...taking-office/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalex.../#2e9d431e33d9
So tell me, just where did the Donald get the funding to stay in the real estate business after his AC debacle?
https://themoscowproject.org/collusi...ter/chapter-1/
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You keep saying that Trump just cares about himself, and enriching himself by being President. Are you making that true by saying so, or do you have evidence?

According to Forbes, Trump’s Net Worth Has Declined Since Becoming President. Trump has lost $600 million in net worth over the past year, According to Forbes, which tracks the wealth of America’s richest. Forbes estimates Trump’s net worth is now $3.1 billion compared to $3.7 billion at the same point in time last year.

Well I guess if that’s true and just because as usual you have found one link to make it so, I guess it’s just business as usual for the Trump business. He has and can lose more money than this entire community could make it three lifetimes.

So the counter argument is how much worse could it be if his family wasn’t making millions off all the foreign dignitaries and staff staying at his hotels and resorts, or if military flights hadn’t been diverted to bolster a struggling golf resort, or if Pence and others in foreign trips weren’t using our tax payer dollars to keep the Trump family flag flying.

Hey thanks for help making the point.
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[Pete F.]

Trump's best - really, his only - defense is that his desire to investigate Biden was not to take out a rival, but to combat corruption. Big problems with that defense:

1. He pushed Ukraine, not his own DOJ to investigate.

2. He worked through his private lawyer, Giuliani, rather than through his own White House counsel or the DOJ.

3. Giuliani himself was working with two people who are now under indictment, and who were themselves foreign individuals. Not great witnesses for the defense, at best.

4. He cut Bolton, his own NSA, out of the loop. Not consistent with pursuing a legitimate national interest.

5. He never attempted to enlist other countries or international law enforcement to help pursue the investigation, as a non-corrupt enforcer would do. The EU had long-standing desires to curtail Ukrainian corruption.

6. The witnesses Giuliani and Trump were putting forward for Ukraine to talk to were themselves the targets of corruption investigations.

7. Trump had just in May certified Ukraine as sufficiently non-corrupt to provide aid. That undermines his claim that he needed to withhold aid to get them to investigate corruption by Biden.

7a. Put differently, Trump didn't condition aid on Ukraine generally pursuing corruption, but just corruption by one person, who happens to be Biden. Yet numerous others (including Americans) are more likely to be corruption targets of an honest corruption initiative.

8. Trump did not withdraw the prior certification of Ukraine, nor did he alert anyone else, that Ukraine was backsliding generally on its commitment to fighting corruption.

[Sea Dangles]

It is hard to determine what your hope is for an outcome here PeteF., but I am guessing that you are setting yourself as well as your disciples up for a big disappointment. I am wishing you inner strength.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

It is hard to determine what your hope is for an outcome here PeteF., but I am guessing that you are setting yourself as well as your disciples up for a big disappointment. I am wishing you inner strength.
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🍑🤡
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[Got Stripers]

Oh I think it’s a given the House will impeach and then as much as Moscow Mitch would like to avoid a trial in the senate; he has already committed to do so. If Trump and his base feel being one of the few American presidents to be impeached by the House, even if acquitted in the senate, is a boon for republicans in the 20/20 election I think they should think again. Trump has become unhinged enough, especially with the Syria situation, that he might be in for a shock in the senate vote. Boy wouldn’t that be fun to watch, kicking and screaming as he is shown the door and escorted to the NY district attorneys van waiting out front. Might be a pipe dream of mine, but I won’t lose sleep either way and if the Democrats still control the House and by some miracle Trump makes it to 20/20 and gets elected, he is going to be watched like a hawk.

If we can survive four years, America can probably make threw another four. Those that will suffer the most are our allies around the world who have counted on the US for stable and thoughtful leadership, they will have to struggle another four years of impulsive foreign policy from someone everyone knows can’t be trusted.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

America can probably make threw another four.

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I bet most of trump's base is smart enough to know the difference

[Jim in CT]

GS, if you don’t think it’s at least possible for trump to be helped by getting impeached by this house, you have no idea what happened in 2016

impeachment could hurt him significantly. but lots of things should have hurt him ( doomed him, even) in 2016, and they didn’t.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Well I guess if that’s true and just because as usual you have found one link to make it so, I guess it’s just business as usual for the Trump business. He has and can lose more money than this entire community could make it three lifetimes.

So the counter argument is how much worse could it be if his family wasn’t making millions off all the foreign dignitaries and staff staying at his hotels and resorts, or if military flights hadn’t been diverted to bolster a struggling golf resort, or if Pence and others in foreign trips weren’t using our tax payer dollars to keep the Trump family flag flying.

Hey thanks for help making the point.
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Hey, I posted some evidence that Trump is not being enriched because he is President. You're refutation is just to state your beliefs, as if they were true. It's your style.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You're refutation is just to state your beliefs, as if they were true.

he spends a remarkable amount of time trying to convince himself of stuff

[Got Stripers]

Hey he is building border wall in Colorado, I think he should run on his wealth of knowledge of geography alone😜😜
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Hey he is building border wall in Colorado, I think he should run on his wealth of knowledge of geography alone😜😜
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well, the smartest president ever said he'd visited all 57 states and and had one more to go and he didn't know that his own home state borders Kentucky and not Hillary's home state of Arkansas.....and we know trump is dumb...at least we're told... so at least it's excusable for him