THE LINCOLN PROJECT

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

I think he's referring to the use of "combat with" versus "combat against"...he's reaching these days

their desperation couldn’t be more obvious. That’s all this is.
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[Pete F.]

On the day the House of Representatives impeached Bill Clinton, his approval rating hit its presidential peak, 73%

Big differences between Clinton impeachment and this one. Clinton at this point was publicly contrite and partisans supporting him mostly argued that what he did was wrong, just not impeachable. This president is on the attack and his partisans deny facts and any wrongdoing.

Clinton lied about having an affair. Floridaman both admitted to and publicly asked multiple foreign governments to interfere in our elections. They are not the same thing and shouldn’t be treated as such. One was improper and embarrassing. The other was a threat to our democracy.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

On the day the House of Representatives impeached Bill Clinton, his approval rating hit its presidential peak, 73%

Big differences between Clinton impeachment and this one. Clinton at this point was publicly contrite and partisans supporting him mostly argued that what he did was wrong, just not impeachable. This president is on the attack and his partisans deny facts and any wrongdoing.

Clinton lied about having an affair. Floridaman both admitted to and publicly asked multiple foreign governments to interfere in our elections. They are not the same thing and shouldn’t be treated as such. One was improper and embarrassing. The other was a threat to our democracy.

Your psyche is showing.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

On the day the House of Representatives impeached Bill Clinton, his approval rating hit its presidential peak, 73%

Big differences between Clinton impeachment and this one. Clinton at this point was publicly contrite and partisans supporting him mostly argued that what he did was wrong, just not impeachable. This president is on the attack and his partisans deny facts and any wrongdoing.

Clinton lied about having an affair. Floridaman both admitted to and publicly asked multiple foreign governments to interfere in our elections. They are not the same thing and shouldn’t be treated as such. One was improper and embarrassing. The other was a threat to our democracy.

Impeach the partisans!!!
🤡❄️🤡
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

On the day the House of Representatives impeached Bill Clinton, his approval rating hit its presidential peak, 73%

Big differences between Clinton impeachment and this one. Clinton at this point was publicly contrite and partisans supporting him mostly argued that what he did was wrong, just not impeachable. This president is on the attack and his partisans deny facts and any wrongdoing.

Clinton lied about having an affair. Floridaman both admitted to and publicly asked multiple foreign governments to interfere in our elections. They are not the same thing and shouldn’t be treated as such. One was improper and embarrassing. The other was a threat to our democracy.

Your saying that by asking Ukraine to investigate into meaningful
evidence of Biden corruption there, that’s asking a foreign power to interfere with our elections?

Using that logic, isn’t it also asking a foreign power to interfere in our elections, when Obama asked a Russian official to postpone missile talks until after his 2012 re election? We all know that conversation, we all
know exactly what it meant, Obama didn’t want to have to answer to voters what he was planning on doing with Russia and missiles.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Your saying that by asking Ukraine to investigate into meaningful
evidence of Biden corruption there, that’s asking a foreign power to interfere with our elections?
As i've said before.
If Floridaman had mounted an aggressive campaign against corruption in countries that we give foreign aid to and Biden had fallen into that web, it would be hard to make the case that Floridaman was targeting his political opponent. Floridaman is not smart enough to do that and has consistently cut funding for anti-corruption efforts. But Biden was also just an unlucky byproduct of Floridaman's attempt to blame Russian interference on Ukraine per his orders. His interference in Ukraine started prior to Biden's announcement and was initially an attempt to clear or at a minimum protect Manafort (remember the Senators letter and date predates Biden's announcement by almost a year) and provide cover for the Russian attempts to interfere in our elections.

Using that logic, isn’t it also asking a foreign power to interfere in our elections, when Obama asked a Russian official to postpone missile talks until after his 2012 re election? We all know that conversation, we all
know exactly what it meant, Obama didn’t want to have to answer to voters what he was planning on doing with Russia and missiles.
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Not negotiating is like asking for something?

But actually if you look into it you'll find that both countries were in an election cycle and agreed to have the discussions continue. These things do take years even without the added pressure of elections and who knew ----------- would be so hard.

You better tell Floridaman that you think it's an impeachable offense, cause he just told China that he can't cut a deal to end his trade war till after the election, though as anyone knows that could change at any minute.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

But actually if you look into it you'll find that both countries were in an election cycle and agreed to have the discussions continue. These things do take years even without the added pressure of elections and who knew ----------- would be so hard.

.

So now you’re saying it’s ok to ask a foreign power to influencemour elections, as long as they’re in an election cycle too?

Pete, you can’t win. You’re trying to juggle too many dishes in the air.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Not negotiating is like asking for something?

But actually if you look into it you'll find that both countries were in an election cycle and agreed to have the discussions continue. These things do take years even without the added pressure of elections and who knew ----------- would be so hard.

There is no actual "cycle." Elections don't end campaigning. Winning or losing them does not put a stop on campaigning for the next election. Every bill that is passed, every carefully selected word in a speech, statement, or response to questions, every action taken whether in public or in private is tempered by the specter of the next election, either of oneself or of the Party.

So there is no action taken by Trump that cannot be considered an influence on the next election. Saying that something Trump does is asking for interference in the next election is superfluous verbiage. It's a political talking point, which is concocted exactly to influence the next election, as are all political talking points.

The question is, was the action in itself illegal, not whether it would interfere with the next election. Was it illegal for Trump to ask Ukraine, with which we have a treaty covering what is asked, to investigate the corruption that has been a feature of its government, and to look into American citizens that have been a part of that corruption?