What part of Pro-Life is letting people die to help the Dow

[nightfighter]

And #^&#^&#^&#^& unite the country dot com... Let any and all associated with the crap they are throwing at us try a year living in Russia....

Their commercial just came on after national news... Eff them twice hard

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Jeebus, Pete. When are you going to discuss like an adult? The last part (in bold) is like throwing chit at the wall to see what sticks in order to "prove" a point....
Just what department, under the Obama admin's oversight, developed this playbook??? CDC? HHS??? Connect some dots, for crying out loud... You throw out that statement expecting us to believe, what? That the playbook was left in the Oval office? And the Trump housekeepers just threw it out? Trump insults my intelligence enough. At least he is not signed on in here. Try to do better...

This falls under the National Security Council

The Obama administration spent the time to brief the incoming administration on a whole bunch of national security issues.
These playbooks exist for a number of possible issues
Read it and then ask yourself how did we get to where we are when the intelligence community had corona Virus and the extent of it in briefings starting in December

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ml#document/p2
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

And #^&#^&#^&#^& unite the country dot com... Let any and all associated with the crap they are throwing at us try a year living in Russia....

Their commercial just came on after national news... Eff them twice hard

I don't watch tv...what is this about?

[nightfighter]

A nothing constructive, biased, anti-Trump, incomplete comparison of past administrations, leading viewer to believe total failure is at hand and calling for him to resign....


And I am disgusted with his pettiness, yet loathe this type of negativity with no positive direction.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

A nothing constructive, biased, anti-Trump, incomplete comparison of past administrations, leading viewer to believe total failure is at hand and calling for him to resign....sounds like you are describing most of the media and many here


And I am disgusted with his pettiness, yet loathe this type of negativity with no positive direction.

agree

[Pete F.]

Last week: Trump said he invoked the DPA, minutes later he said he didn't invoke it

Two days ago: Trump said he didn't need the DPA

Yesterday: He said we may have too many ventilators

Today:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
· 1h
General Motors MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!! FORD, GET GOING ON VENTILATORS, FAST!!!!!! @GeneralMotors @Ford

If you were a company leader, responsible to your shareholders, how would you interpret this?

The reason we have the DPA is not to be able to force companies to do something against their will and foolishly, but to assure them that they will be compensated so that they willingly use their resources to accomplish the goal.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The reason we have the DPA is not to be able to force companies to do something against their will and foolishly, but to assure them that they will be compensated so that they willingly use their resources to accomplish the goal.

You trying to put lipstick on a pig? The DPA does enable the government to force companies to produce designated products. And it does guarantee compensation. I don't think the company's "will" is taken into consideration, nor needs to be. Obviously, the company needs to be capable of doing it. Can't, practically, force a dairy farm to produce ventilators.

GM and Ford offered to make ventilators.

[Pete F.]

You have been putting lipstick on a pig for three years now
Hope you’re happy with the results
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You have been putting lipstick on a pig for three years now
Hope you’re happy with the results
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Pretty much.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

GM and Ford offered to make ventilators.

How come GM got ridiculed and Ford got off scott free? Isn’t the government supposed to treat everyone equally? Those GM workers in Ohio must be raring to go after Trumps pep tweets.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

How come GM got ridiculed and Ford got off scott free? Isn’t the government supposed to treat everyone equally? Those GM workers in Ohio must be raring to go after Trumps pep tweets.
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This really is a problem?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Pretty much.

You wanted a reality show host as a president, well now you’re on Survivor.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You wanted a reality show host as a president, well now you’re on Survivor.
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Never a dull minute.

[Pete F.]

Devastating....
Not a “hoax.”
Not “totally under control.”
Not “15 people.”
Not down “to close to zero.”
A “great job” does not look like this
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[Sea Dangles]

Time to cheer for the USA.
These numbers are something to be optimistic about.
Lives are being saved with our preparedness.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Time to cheer for the USA.
These numbers are something to be optimistic about.
Lives are being saved with our preparedness.
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Is that why there’s a giant shortage of masks, protective wear and ventilators?? We are prepared?
:clown:
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Is that why there’s a giant shortage of masks, protective wear and ventilators?? We are prepared?
:clown:
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I don’t know what numbers he’s looking at. This things isn’t even close to a tipping point.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

. This things isn’t even close to a tipping point.
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Mimosa time Jeff?
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[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Time to cheer for the USA.
These numbers are something to be optimistic about.
Lives are being saved with our preparedness.
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Chris,
I have always enjoyed our banter and especially spent times fishing together. However, I have to acknowledge here, to you and the group, that your perspective is through glasses of a different color than >90% of America. I don't see the numbers that are giving you a positive vibe. At least in relation to the needed medical supplies being touted by those on the front lines; the nurses and doctors. With a niece getting her MD within days and headed to those front lines, on top of having an 85 yo living under my roof, I just don't share any of your points at this moment.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Chris,
I have always enjoyed our banter and especially spent times fishing together. However, I have to acknowledge here, to you and the group, that your perspective is through glasses of a different color than >90% of America. I don't see the numbers that are giving you a positive vibe. At least in relation to the needed medical supplies being touted by those on the front lines; the nurses and doctors. With a niece getting her MD within days and headed to those front lines, on top of having an 85 yo living under my roof, I just don't share any of your points at this moment.

I have no problem with you disagreeing Ross. If you look at our mortality numbers vs the majority of other nations then perhaps you would share my satisfaction. I see countries that are much worse off and hope we can stay where we are with the death rates. Civilized nations across the globe are all in the same battle you know. Do all of their citizens lay their blame at the feet of elected officials? That is not the narrative I hear in most cases. Don’t despair, it is always darkest before the light. We are all in this together so we can either lash out like cornered animals or try to remain positive and realistically hopeful.
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[Jim in CT]

we got caught unprepared in terms of certain supplies. Naturally the previous administration deserves none of the blame, and the current administration deserves 100% of the blame.

But there are reasons t be optimistic. i trust our healthcare providers, i trust our system to produce
more safety equipment and better ideas, than any other country. I am
lucky that i can say that regardless of who is president. Many here cant bring themselves to say anything positive about Trump, doesn’t matter what he does.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

we got caught unprepared in terms of certain supplies. Naturally the previous administration deserves none of the blame, and the current administration deserves 100% of the blame.

I know you're being sarcastic--that, indeed, a good deal of the non preparedness in respirators "along with millions of other masks, gowns and gloves." actually is the fault of the previous administration as said in this Washington post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...cd9_story.html

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I know you're being sarcastic--that, indeed, a good deal of the non preparedness in respirators "along with millions of other masks, gowns and gloves." actually is the fault of the previous administration as said in this Washington post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...cd9_story.html

correct.

now, with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been nice if trump thought to rebuild those stockpiles. had he done so back then, he would have been accused of trying to start a panic.

orangemanbad.
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[nightfighter]

The fault for not being prepared lies with HHS, HIS, and CDC in my opinion. They should only be able to pass the buck onto an administration or congress when they can definitively show where budget cuts and/or lack of bill passage directly led to this material shortfall. This is their domain!

I just don't see PPE inventory being in the top ten items for any administration in my lifetime. It is up to those departments to bring it up to cabinet level discussion and resolution. If it is budgetary, then we go down the line on who voted it down. (no doubt you will have to search within some hundreds of pages of the bill it was buried in)

How much f uckery is in the $2.3 trillion 900 page bill they just passed? Here is something I saw, but cannot prove, nor disprove:

$60 million Space
$25 million House salaries
$25 million Capitol repairs
$25 million Kennedy Center renovations

If these are truly in that bill, the whole lot of Congress should be impeached. How dare they at a time like this?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

correct.

now, with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been nice if trump thought to rebuild those stockpiles. had he done so back then, he would have been accused of trying to start a panic.

orangemanbad.
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You buy boat and and it sinks its funny your trying to blame the previous owner 3.5 years later... funny how conservatives expect personal responsibility from everyone else , except Republicans or Trump....

Trump creates his own issue someday you'll see it

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You buy boat and and it sinks its funny your trying to blame the previous owner 3.5 years later... funny how conservatives expect personal responsibility from everyone else , except Republicans or Trump....

Trump creates his own issue someday you'll see it

He went through that equipment during the HiN1 outbreak, which I believe was in 2009. Gave him a lot of years.

I don't blame either one of them. No one was worried about a shortage, this outbreak caught the world by surprise.

To repeat, I don't blame either one. I think it's laughable to blame one and not the other. We are all shocked that you blame Trump and not Obama. Just shocked, Stunned, we all have to lie down.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't blame either one of them. No one was worried about a shortage, this outbreak caught the world by surprise.

It did, but it hit China first, not the whole world at the same time, and a lot of the medical experts were saying as China was escalating, that we should be prepared. Trump gets credit for being proactive about the travel restrictions with China, but then it is equally fair to ask what else they were doing. Based on his talk, and apparently actions of the administration, they treated the travel restrictions as 'problem solved'

The response for other preparations was delayed, at the federal and state levels. I don't see how that is a debate point in any of this. I don't think POTUS took this seriously enough in the beginning, and still at times is waffling in public with misleading and incorrect statements about testing, preparedness and none of that helps.

It is going to be a long road, if we are lucky, and Faucci's number (200K dead) is correct (and that is lucky, vs millions in some models).

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

It did, but it hit China first, not the whole world at the same time, and a lot of the medical experts were saying as China was escalating, that we should be prepared. Trump gets credit for being proactive about the travel restrictions with China, but then it is equally fair to ask what else they were doing. Based on his talk, and apparently actions of the administration, they treated the travel restrictions as 'problem solved'

The response for other preparations was delayed, at the federal and state levels. I don't see how that is a debate point in any of this. I don't think POTUS took this seriously enough in the beginning, and still at times is waffling in public with misleading and incorrect statements about testing, preparedness and none of that helps.

It is going to be a long road, if we are lucky, and Faucci's number (200K dead) is correct (and that is lucky, vs millions in some models).

yes it hit china first. and as i showed beyond any doubt, when trump responded
by implementing a travel ban, Biden, Schumer and CNN said Trump was a bigot and a dictator for doing so. As recently as late February many in the liberal media were saying that concern about the virus was a thinly veiled excuse for bigotry against Chinese. Diblasio was telling new yorkers in late february to keep going out to restaurants and bars.

Now all of a sudden, Trump
missed the obvious signals and should have seen it coming.

Bryan, excluding you, the hypocrisy from the left on this issue is obvious. mind boggling. Politics is all that matters.

Trumps words, as usual, are poor. You’re saying he under reacted. the entire left said he over reacted and was just trying to stoke fear.

can’t have it both ways.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes it hit china first. and as i showed beyond any doubt, when trump responded
by implementing a travel ban, Biden, Schumer and CNN said Trump was a bigot and a dictator for doing so. As recently as late February many in the liberal media were saying that concern about the virus was a thinly veiled excuse for bigotry against Chinese. Diblasio was telling new yorkers in late february to keep going out to restaurants and bars.

Now all of a sudden, Trump
missed the obvious signals and should have seen it coming.

Bryan, excluding you, the hypocrisy from the left on this issue is obvious. mind boggling. Politics is all that matters.

Trumps words, as usual, are poor. You’re saying he under reacted. the entire left said he over reacted and was just trying to stoke fear.

can’t have it both ways.
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Your beating that one good Trump move to death, look beyond and see what the results of pour decisions, lack of timely decisions and pour messaging.

Dr. weighs in ... we can do much better ...

Please don't tell me that in the richest country in the world in the 21st century, I'm supposed to work in a fictionalized Soviet-era disaster zone and fashion my own face mask out of cloth because other Americans hoard supplies for personal use and so-called leaders sit around in meetings hearing themselves talk. I ran to a bedside the other day to intubate a crashing, likely COVID, patient. Two respiratory therapists and two nurses were already at the bedside. That's 5 N95s masks, 5 gowns, 5 face shields and 10 gloves for one patient at one time. I saw probably 15-20 patients that shift, if we are going to start rationing supplies, what percentage should I wear precautions for?

Make no mistake, the CDC is loosening these guidelines because our country is not prepared. Loosening guidelines increases healthcare workers' risk but the decision is done to allow us to keep working, not to keep us safe. It is done for the public benefit - so I can continue to work no matter the personal cost to me or my family (and my healthcare family).

Sending healthcare workers to the front line asking them to cover their face with a bandana is akin to sending a soldier to the front line in a t-shirt and flip flops.

I don't want talk. I don't want assurances. I want action. I want boxes of N95s piling up, donated from the people who hoarded them. I want non-clinical administrators in the hospital lining up in the ER asking if they can stock shelves to make sure that when I need to rush into a room, the drawer of PPE equipment I open isn't empty. I want them showing up in the ER asking "how can I help" instead of offering shallow "plans" conceived by someone who has spent far too long in an ivory tower and not long enough in the trenches. Maybe they should actually step foot in the trenches.

I want billion-dollar companies like 3M halting all production of any product that isn't PPE to focus on PPE manufacturing. I want a company like Amazon, with its logistics mastery (it can drop a package to your door less than 24 hours after ordering it), halting its 2-day delivery of 12 reams of toilet paper to whoever is willing to pay the most in order to help get the available PPE supply distributed fast and efficiently in a manner that gets the necessary materials to my brothers and sisters in arms who need them.

I want Proctor and Gamble, and the makers of other soaps and detergents, stepping up too. We need detergent to clean scrubs, hospital linens and gowns. We need disinfecting wipes to clean desk and computer surfaces. What about plastics manufacturers? Plastic gowns aren't some high-tech device, they are long shirts/smocks...made out of plastic. Get on it. Face shields are just clear plastic. Nitrile gloves? Yeah, they are pretty much just gloves...made from something that isn't apparently Latex. Let's go. Money talks in this country. Executive millionaires, why don't you spend a few bucks to buy back some of these masks from the hoarders, and drop them off at the nearest hospital.

I love biotechnology and research but we need to divert viral culture media for COVID testing and research. We need biotechnology manufacturing ready and able to ramp up if and when treatments or vaccines are developed. Our Botox supply isn't critical, but our antibiotic supply is. We need to be able to make more plastic ET tubes, not more silicon breast implants.

Let's see all that. Then we can all talk about how we played our part in this fight. Netflix and chill is not enough while my family, friends and colleagues are out there fighting. Our country won two world wars because the entire country mobilized. We out-produced and we out-manufactured while our soldiers out-fought the enemy. We need to do that again because make no mistake, we are at war, healthcare workers are your soldiers, and the war has just begun.

[Jim in CT]

GS, trumps bold early move isn’t the point at all. the point was the liberal reaction to it. liberals went nuts, saying he over reacted. now the same people are saying he didn’t do enough.

Sorry, can’t have it both ways.
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