Herd immunity is not a strategy, it is a biological fact

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

Illinios, California, league leaders in new cases, Rhode Island spiking beyond spring levels and I don't know if you've checked the BBC lately but europe is similarly spiking = clearly trumps fault...damn those conservative states with republican governors and non-mask wearing trumplicans!!!!

ps...I was out and about the other day made a couple of stops at a convenience store and a couple other places and I could be wrong but the people I saw NOT wearing masks in public places were probably not those you hear described as typical or likely trump voters(I was wearing mine)

Scott maybe you should tell your Potus covid is running out of control or even better his faithful.. your post whould be blasphemy ..on any conservative web site
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It's funny, like everything else, I struggle to make up my mind definitively on masks. Because there are very smart people who say masks work (which is where I lean), and there are very smart people who say they don't work. I feel like I cannot know who is right, I'm not a virologist, or a health care researcher. It's amazing to me that even on something as simple as masks, there is zero consensus. There are peer reviewed studies showing masks do nothing. It's hard for me to believe that they don't help at least a little, and I wear one every time I go out. But there's no consensus...

What works in surgery isn't the same as what works with this virus. It's possible the droplets are too small to be captured with a cloth mask. Again, I'm not taking that position, but there are smart people who do.

I pretty much gave up trying to figure this out, how can you when there is zero consensus among the experts? I don't know enough to feel comfortable saying one side is wrong. SO I go with my gut and wear a mask.

What works in surgery isn't the same as what works with this viru

there is zero consensus among the experts?

OMG. I bet you think we moved out of the Stone age because we ran out of Rocks.

Unbelievable response to telling a surgeon not wear masks
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[Pete F.]

Obviously the earth could be flat, how would you know, some people think it is.
Why would you think otherwise since there is not a consensus.

Try it at a really basic level, masks are cheap and by far the simplest part of the solution. All countries with low levels of Covid have high levels of mask wearing.

That's not absolute proof, but it's about 99.9% sure that it does something.
There are countries that are doing a better job controlling the virus than the US and there are no countries that had better options going in.
That's why the rest of the world feels sorry for us.
It's the leader that didn't want to panic people, thought it would go away like a miracle, you'll have a vaccine tomorrow.....................

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Vets expressing their disgust of numerous comments by Trump not sure he is viewed as positively by veterans as you think.

Well, I work on a Navy base and I work with a bunch of veterans, as well as keep in touch with a bunch of my old shipmates.

From what I’m seeing, he isn’t as despised as much by veterans as you think.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

What works in surgery isn't the same as what works with this viru

there is zero consensus among the experts?

OMG. I bet you think we moved out of the Stone age because we ran out of Rocks.

Unbelievable response to telling a surgeon not wear masks
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I'm not telling surgeons not to wear masks.

What I meant was, regarding covid, there is no consensus in the medical community as to whether or not masks work. I have to believe they help. But for every study you'd like to post suggesting masks help with covid, I can post a study showing they don't work.

That's the reality - no consensus on masks. I'm not making that up to prove a political point, as I wear a mask in public 100% of the time. I'm just stating the truth - within the medical and scientific community, there is zero consensus on whether or not masks work.

Again, I wear a mask, so I tend to err on the side of caution and choose to wear one. But there are scientists who say they are useless in the fight against covid.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Well, I work on a Navy base and I work with a bunch of veterans, as well as keep in touch with a bunch of my old shipmates.

From what I’m seeing, he isn’t as despised as much by veterans as you think.
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I'll be very curious to se how he actually does with the military. He has been a very loyal supporter of the military - multiple raises, improvements at the VA, and no questionable wars.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

There are peer reviewed studies showing masks do nothing.

Great, name one.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

Great, name one.

Trumptard polytechnics institute
And
Conservative evangelical prolife stop caring after they are born #^&#^&#^&#^&em they are on there own superpac foundation
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[Got Stripers]

Didn't the study come from Trump University?

[detbuch]

https://fee.org/articles/europes-top...ting-covid-19/

"The top immunologists and epidemiologists in the world can’t decide if masks are helpful in reducing the spread of COVID-19. Indeed, we’ve seen organizations like the World Health Organization and the CDC go back and forth in their recommendations."

The "consensus" has not been universal. Opinions have wavered back and borth over time. Whatever they are today, they might change tomorrow.

But I'm for it. At least, it creates a demand which can help spur the economy.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

But I'm for it. At least, it creates a demand which can help spur the economy.

and they are 100% effective in allowing leftist to feel like they are better people..... sooo...we all want them to feel good about themselves

[Pete F.]

A simple analogy
A friend of mine had a bar. He had a rule, no hats. I asked him, why that.
He said you have to have a rule and it's a pretty easy way to tell apart the people who can and will follow rules from those that you don't want around.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Great, name one.

How many do you want? And make no mistake, I am not saying I agree with his study. I'm saying, I have no way to tell if it's flawed.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...19-experts-say

Asked and answered. Can you show me the same courtesy? Name one meaningful issue, on which you think democrats are wrong. Or admit you're a rabid, blind, thoughtless, partisan.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Trumptard polytechnics institute
And
Conservative evangelical prolife stop caring after they are born #^&#^&#^&#^&em they are on there own superpac foundation
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"Trumptard"

Nice, making fun of people with Downs.

"Conservative evangelical prolife stop caring after they are born "

Except the data shows that's 100% false.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Didn't the study come from Trump University?

National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine.

[wdmso]

More examples of conservatives claiming no consensus..

Any and every topic they use the same talking point theirs no consensus


Then post their sources articles from Denmark as see they dont work
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine.

https://www.nationalacademies.org/ne...tious-diseases

This study was about home made masks

Here we go a mask is a mask . Comparing homemade to N95
Then claming masks dont work. Amazing
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

https://www.nationalacademies.org/ne...tious-diseases

This study was about home made masks

Have another link?
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Are you honestly unaware of data showing that masks aren't effective? You think it's all made up? Given the way your side fabricates things non stop, I guess I can see where you might think everyone does that.

Here you go. Again, I do not agree with these studies. I'm just saying I'm aware they exist, and the pose some questions...

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/12...us-wore-masks/

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/...-social-policy

https://nypost.com/2020/08/09/scient...d-of-covid-19/

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...jMcwUS6kGKiEo-

https://fee.org/articles/europes-top...ting-covid-19/

How many do you want?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

How many do you want? And make no mistake, I am not saying I agree with his study. I'm saying, I have no way to tell if it's flawed.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...19-experts-say

That study is from early April, we know a lot more about the virus now. Second, the study was only about thin homemade fabric masks, not masks in general. Third, it's doesn't say homemade masks don't help, it just says there's not enough data to claim that they do. As an aside my sister knows the doctor quoted.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Didn't the study come from Trump University?

Smug, from the guy who claims that current unemployment is the worst since the 1930s.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

That study is from early April, we know a lot more about the virus now. Second, the study was only about thin homemade fabric masks, not masks in general.

see post #258, I can cite as many as you want...and again, I wear a mask because I believe they help. But some smart people disagree.

Spence, people can disagree. The world doesn't have to be all one way or all the other.

And we are all still waiting for one example of an issue on which you disagree with democrats...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/12...us-wore-masks/

The CDC report doesn't demonstrate what the Federalist article says. The conclusion isn't that masks don't work, it's that people who engage in close contact behavior and where mask wearing is difficult to maintain are more likely to get sick.

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/...-social-policy

Focuses on mask wearing help to prevent you from getting sick, not making others sick.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/09/scient...d-of-covid-19/

Doesn't say masks don't work, just says bandanas and neck gators are much less effective.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...jMcwUS6kGKiEo-

Wow looks bad, but, wait for it...

"UPDATE: The authors retracted this study based on the advice of the editors of Annals of Internal Medicine. Read the Notice of Retraction Here"

https://fee.org/articles/europes-top...ting-covid-19/

This isn't a study, let alone a peer reviewed one. It's a few anecdotes with an ancient CDC statement from February that has long since been revised.

How many do you want?

I'm still waiting for ONE!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Second, the study was only about thin homemade fabric masks,

.

that's what everyone wears, fabric masks and buffs

[detbuch]

If there was no consensus until "recently," and many worldwide "expert" epidemiologists, including as well the WHO (and even Dr. Fauci) early on and even into august and later, said that masks didn't work, or it was inconclusive if they did, or recommended that only sick people wore them, etc., then all those "experts" were far more responsible than Trump for confusing people and letting the virus spread in the supposedly critical early period of contagion.

I don't recall Trump ever actually saying that masks should not be worn. He seems to have been ambiguous, which is understandable since the "experts" contradicted each other. And he has been evolving (as have the "experts") more toward encouraging mask wearing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

If there was no consensus until "recently," and many worldwide "expert" epidemiologists, including as well the WHO (and even Dr. Fauci) early on and even into august and later, said that masks didn't work, or it was inconclusive if they did, or recommended that only sick people wore them, etc.

Fauci stated very clearly the mask guidance at the outset was due to a lack of PPE and a focus on hospitals.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Fauci stated very clearly the mask guidance at the outset was due to a lack of PPE and a focus on hospitals.

you mean this guy?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Smug, from the guy who claims that current unemployment is the worst since the 1930s.

I lumped unemployment and economy into the same sentence thought you were smart enough to realize the economic state of the US was THE point. I do however know that more US citizens couldn’t work due to business closures percentage wise during the worst os this in the spring than probably the unemployment percentage in that depression, again if you have trouble reading between the lines I can make the text bigger and even color it blue for you.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I lumped unemployment and economy into the same sentence thought you were smart enough to....

that makes even less sense...good job

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Fauci stated very clearly the mask guidance at the outset was due to a lack of PPE and a focus on hospitals.

I know that he later rationalized why he encouraged the general public not to wear masks, but in terms of doing things early that could mitigate the spread of the virus, it makes no difference what his reasoning was. Many people, no doubt, took his encouragement at heart and did not wear a mask. So he was part of the supposed problem of not doing the right thing at the critical early stage.

And the WHO went beyond that rationalization and cast doubts on the actual efficacy, or necessity of wearing masks until sometime in august, which was way past the critical early stage that people want to blame Trump for. And many other worldwide "experts" also were negative about mask usefulness well past the critical early stage.

Fauci was only one of many. But Trump is blamed for not doing some unspecified thing early enough.

[Pete F.]

I’ll be glad when Covita’s over

On Saturday, President Donald J. Trump emerged from his West Palm Beach voting center, boasting he voted a “straight Republican ticket.” A “straight Republican ticket” in his congressional district—the Florida 21st—is one that includes House candidate Laura Loomer, a QAnon supporter who gained notoriety for being so bigoted that she became, according to herself, the “most banned woman on the planet.” From there, Trump jetted off on Air Force One to dance to the Village People’s “YMCA” at yet another rally amid the pandemic that has struck dead 225,000 Americans.

Four years ago, it would have been impossible to imagine such a vignette—because before Trump became president, most people had no idea what a “coronavirus” was and QAnon didn’t yet exist. Now, though, these hateful mental and physical plagues are inescapable. They are dominant facts of our personal lives and our national politics.

This is America on Trump.
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