Disaster

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

On October 23, 1983, a terrorist drove a truck filled with explosives into Marine HQ in Beirut, killing 241 Marines. That came 6 months after a terrorist attack on the US embassy killed 63. Reagan promptly pulled out of Lebanon. No Democrats called on Reagan to resign, or said he should be impeached.

The reality is, for 20 yrs there have been terrorist suicide bombers killing civilians and Americans nearly daily in Afghanistan. This is why America is leaving. Only NOW they are outraged because it's all a political game for them. Appalling doesn't even begin to describe
Trumplicans.

I'm just a little skeptical of the motives of the politicians saying yesterday's tragedy requires an instant rethinking of policy but after every mass shooting in this country insist the only answer is to do absolutely nothing.

One of my friends from high school died in that bombing.

It still remains the right needs to make up their minds .. you can’t have boots on the ground or more boots on the ground and think any risk to these people is unacceptable that’s not how operations in a hostile environment works , and those brave marines were doing HAND pat downs so A Bomber like that couldn’t get on a plane and kill many many more .. their the tip of the spear .. and no amount out bombs from above are going to stop a suicide bomber .. or an IED both are the leading cause of KIA in Iraq and Afghanistan..

I get bothered by this Idea that because American has the biggest baddest Military ( true by the way )

That this some how should translate into how could we lose …

ask the British the Russians and any other Nation who tried .. they all will tell you they were beat by Time
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

It still remains the right needs to make up their minds ..

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

how many minds do you suppose the right has?

[Pete F.]

Over 70,000 Afghan civilians, 40,000 Afghan soldiers, and 2,743 Americans have died in this conflict.

General Mark Hertling's assessment of what's happening and the difficulties in Afghanistan

A suicide attack - SVIED or VBIED - is a commander’s biggest threat in these environments. They’re hard to stop, even at checkpoints…because they are already there and can be initiated when found.
The only way to address them is 1) find the cell that is making them 2) constantly change methods at checkpoints 3) have greater standoff 4) limit crowds. All of these were difficult at HKIA.
We had a network of female suicide vest wearers in Iraq that were particularly confounding. Widows of terrorists, group leaders drugged them, convinced them they had nothing to live for, and sent them on their mission.
They also had the advantage of wearing abayas and not being checked by security, due to cultural issues of not checking women.
We only found the cell and countered it when we got women on the police force who would work checkpoints. But that took time.
Yesterday’s bombing was horrific. Given the crowds, the crush at the singular gates, the dynamics of inner & outer checkpoints at HKIA, and the desires of ISK to counter Taliban & US actions, this threat was always on my mind, and I’m sure the minds of the NEO commanders.
Contributing to all this: the time constraints of the mission and the incredible complexity of conducting a difficult NEO in a non-permissive environment.
The NEO will continue in this 3d phase, as I pointed out a few days ago, with ever decreasing outflow of evacuees. We’ll soon seen the transition to phase 4, which is the final phase (likely start on Sunday). That will also present huge challenges.
Even with the horrific actions of yesterday, I continue to give high marks to the conduct of this difficult mission, though not all will be evacuated.
And God/Allah bless the souls of those service-members and Afghans who lost their lives or were injured in the despicable & deadly attack.

[Slipknot]

When this began and thousands of people were left to fend for themselves, I knew somehow, some way someone would step up to the plate and go in there. These guys deserve a helluva lot of gratitude and respect, so do those in the military there that defied orders. I pray they make it home safe. Evil exists.

http://mailer.bytesignal.com/ga/clic...71b-8ec56ef40b


Veterans of the United States special forces have “secretly rescued” hundreds of members of Afghanistan’s Special Forces and their families in recent days — allies who had been “left for dead” by the Biden administration, according to the Daily Mail.
The operation, codenamed “Pineapple Express” involved a “group of special op soldiers including retired Green Berets and SEAL Team commanders” who were inspired to taken matters into their own hands “after one of the Afghan commandos they served with contacted them to say he was on the run from the Taliban. His visa had not been approved when the Taliban took over on August 14 and thousands ran for the airport,” the Mail said Friday.
“The special ops soldiers first devised a system with US troops at the airport where they sent their comrades to a gate and told them to identify themselves with the password ‘pineapple’ to be put on a plane by the Marines on the ground. Some also showed the troops pictures of pineapples on their phones,” the outlet continued.
After getting their former colleagues out of Afghanistan, they began venturing outside the U.S. military perimeter around Hamid Karzai International Airport, defying Biden administration restrictions to rescue colleagues trapped in Kabul city.
“Moving after nightfall in near-pitch black darkness and extremely dangerous conditions, the group said it worked unofficially in tandem with the United States military and U.S. embassy to move people, sometimes one person at a time, or in pairs, but rarely more than a small bunch, inside the wire of the U.S. military-controlled side of Hamid Karzai International Airport,” ABC News added.
“As of Thursday morning, the group said it had brought as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets and enablers and their families into the airport in Kabul overnight, handing them each over to the protective custody of the U.S. military,” the outlet needed.
The operation came to light following a deadly terrorist attack in Kabul on Thursday that left nearly 200 dead, including 10 U.S. Marines, 2 U.S. Army soldiers, and 1 U.S. Navy hospital corpsman. The blast did affect some of the “Pineapple Express” travelers, the veterans associated with the mission said. They do not yet know whether some of their colleagues are among the dead.
Around 130 individuals have been smuggled into the protective custody of the U.S. military inside the perimeter of HKIA by a separate “Task Force Pineapple,” “an informal group whose mission began as a frantic effort on Aug. 15 to get one former Afghan commando who had served with group founder Col. Scott Mann, a former Green Beret.
“Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom,” Mann said.
Many of those who assisted Task Force Pineapple chose to defy orders, Mann said, exiting the secure perimeter, even as the Biden administration demanded they stay within airport walls, reportedly over President Joe Biden’s fear of a “Black Hawk Down” moment.
“This Herculean effort couldn’t have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones,” Mann said.
“With the uniformed U.S. military unable to venture outside the airport’s perimeter to collect Americans and Afghans who’ve sought U.S. protection for their past joint service, they instead provided overwatch and awaited coordinated movements by an informal Pineapple Express ground team that included “conductors” led by former Green Beret Capt. Zac Lois, known as the underground railroad’s ‘engineer,’” ABC News reported.
Lois told ABC that he was proud of and astounded by the effort.
“That is an astounding number for an organization that was only assembled days before the start of operations and most of its members had never met each other in person,” he said.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

When this began and thousands of people were left to fend for themselves, I knew somehow, some way someone would step up to the plate and go in there. These guys deserve a helluva lot of gratitude and respect, so do those in the military there that defied orders. I pray they make it home safe. Evil exists.

http://mailer.bytesignal.com/ga/clic...71b-8ec56ef40b


Veterans of the United States special forces have “secretly rescued” hundreds of members of Afghanistan’s Special Forces and their families in recent days — allies who had been “left for dead” by the Biden administration, according to the Daily Mail.
The operation, codenamed “Pineapple Express” involved a “group of special op soldiers including retired Green Berets and SEAL Team commanders” who were inspired to taken matters into their own hands “after one of the Afghan commandos they served with contacted them to say he was on the run from the Taliban. His visa had not been approved when the Taliban took over on August 14 and thousands ran for the airport,” the Mail said Friday.
“The special ops soldiers first devised a system with US troops at the airport where they sent their comrades to a gate and told them to identify themselves with the password ‘pineapple’ to be put on a plane by the Marines on the ground. Some also showed the troops pictures of pineapples on their phones,” the outlet continued.
After getting their former colleagues out of Afghanistan, they began venturing outside the U.S. military perimeter around Hamid Karzai International Airport, defying Biden administration restrictions to rescue colleagues trapped in Kabul city.
“Moving after nightfall in near-pitch black darkness and extremely dangerous conditions, the group said it worked unofficially in tandem with the United States military and U.S. embassy to move people, sometimes one person at a time, or in pairs, but rarely more than a small bunch, inside the wire of the U.S. military-controlled side of Hamid Karzai International Airport,” ABC News added.
“As of Thursday morning, the group said it had brought as many as 500 Afghan special operators, assets and enablers and their families into the airport in Kabul overnight, handing them each over to the protective custody of the U.S. military,” the outlet needed.
The operation came to light following a deadly terrorist attack in Kabul on Thursday that left nearly 200 dead, including 10 U.S. Marines, 2 U.S. Army soldiers, and 1 U.S. Navy hospital corpsman. The blast did affect some of the “Pineapple Express” travelers, the veterans associated with the mission said. They do not yet know whether some of their colleagues are among the dead.
Around 130 individuals have been smuggled into the protective custody of the U.S. military inside the perimeter of HKIA by a separate “Task Force Pineapple,” “an informal group whose mission began as a frantic effort on Aug. 15 to get one former Afghan commando who had served with group founder Col. Scott Mann, a former Green Beret.
“Dozens of high-risk individuals, families with small children, orphans, and pregnant women, were secretly moved through the streets of Kabul throughout the night and up to just seconds before ISIS detonated a bomb into the huddled mass of Afghans seeking safety and freedom,” Mann said.
Many of those who assisted Task Force Pineapple chose to defy orders, Mann said, exiting the secure perimeter, even as the Biden administration demanded they stay within airport walls, reportedly over President Joe Biden’s fear of a “Black Hawk Down” moment.
“This Herculean effort couldn’t have been done without the unofficial heroes inside the airfield who defied their orders to not help beyond the airport perimeter, by wading into sewage canals and pulling in these targeted people who were flashing pineapples on their phones,” Mann said.
“With the uniformed U.S. military unable to venture outside the airport’s perimeter to collect Americans and Afghans who’ve sought U.S. protection for their past joint service, they instead provided overwatch and awaited coordinated movements by an informal Pineapple Express ground team that included “conductors” led by former Green Beret Capt. Zac Lois, known as the underground railroad’s ‘engineer,’” ABC News reported.
Lois told ABC that he was proud of and astounded by the effort.
“That is an astounding number for an organization that was only assembled days before the start of operations and most of its members had never met each other in person,” he said.

To bad the Afghan army couldn’t or wouldn’t fight like their Afghan counterparts.. but not sure how anyone can suggest what the correct number of Afghans is to get out .. seeing we’ve been there 20years ..

When you have so many competing agencies trying to get personal who worked for them out all at the same time .. it’s crazy

No matter where people stand regards to Biden

Stay or go! 60k or 100k people out kias or no Kia There is no solution that would satisfy anyone in this partisan environment in the USA
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

There's this though provoking article, and it doesn't spare the Trump administration:

https://thedispatch.com/p/a-defeat-of-choice

[wdmso]

I read it until What the president did not mention in his haste to shift blame to the Afghans was that our premature withdrawal of military support left the Afghan army virtually inoperable. When we stopped American air support—without warning—and halted all logistical assistance, it was like cutting off a diver’s air supply.

This is the biggest excuse being peddled by many

But the president opted to explain the asphyxiation of the Afghan war effort on Afghan cowardice.

Because it was cowardice

If they the Afghan Army still required Americans to feed them and do everything for them After 20 years .. what’s the point?

Because it’s clear many other countries military left in June and they did not conduct early evacuation of their personal .. and I can only speculate they also felt that the Afghan Army was going to fight.

When that didn’t happen you saw many countries returning to do what American was doing . Seeing the Afghans chose the Taliban by not fighting
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raider Ronnie]

Nice departing gift we left for our enemies that will no doubt pull off another 9/11 attack.
Thanks Joe





-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Goggles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Nice departing gift we left for our enemies that will no doubt pull off another 9/11 attack.
Thanks Joe





-2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAP’s
-75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc
-45 UH-60 Blachhawk Helicopters
-50 MD530G Scout Attack Choppers
-ScanEagle Military Drones
-30 Military Version Cessnas
-4 C-130’s
-29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tocano Ground Attack Aircraft
208+ Aircraft Total
-At least 600,000+ Small arms M16, M249 SAWs, M24 Sniper Systems, 50 Calibers, 1,394 M203 Grenade Launchers, M134 Mini Gun, 20mm Gatling Guns and Ammunition
-61,000 M203 Rounds
-20,040 Grenades
-Howitzers
-Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
-162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Comunications Gear
-16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
-Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
-Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Goggles
-10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
-Recconaissance Equipment (ISR)
-Laser Aiming Units
-Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
-2,520 Bombs
-Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops all operational
-Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
-Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
-Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
-US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics
-Lots of Heavy Equipment Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators

Here we Go... all that equipment was provided by the US and other countries for the past 20yrs by several Administrations .. For the Afghan Army to defend their Country .. to include their air force who ran quicker than the french in WW2

Uzbek government official confirmed to Air Force Magazine that 46 aircraft, including 22 fixed wing and 24 helicopters, and 585 Afghan airmen and soldiers had fled to Uzbekistan by air after the fall of Kabul.

and as if on Cue Conservatives make excuses why they ran.. never once calling them Cowards then move on to a new outrage AKA your list ... completely ignoring whos equipment it was and why it was even there ... for the past 20 years .. So now you think the taliban is going to fly a blackhawk to attack America Cant argue with such logic

[Got Stripers]

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets, never mind the fact the US should have never stayed there after our initial mission was completed. We all enjoy our democracy, but to be so arrogant to believe we can force that way of life elsewhere is a mistake we continue to make.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets,

I was listening to a reporter from the BBC this morning on NPR, Wayne loves the British press and I bet you love NPR, the reporter was commenting on Boris Johnson his recent remarks about UK service people's lives and efforts in Afghanistan not being in vain...and the reporter referred to the current situation in Afghanistan as "what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster"...those were not Boris' words, that was the characterization of the BBC reporter...probably a trump voter

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets, never mind the fact the US should have never stayed there after our initial mission was completed. We all enjoy our democracy, but to be so arrogant to believe we can force that way of life elsewhere is a mistake we continue to make.

I don't think Newsweek, Meet the Press, and General McMaster would be considered usual outlets for "they."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

"McMaster warned against 'self-delusion' that the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan means the war is over."

"McMaster believed the Taliban could have been defeated and that the troops were on a 'path to slowly strengthening over time.' He added it does not 'make sense' to tell the Taliban we're leaving, and that we want to negotiate a settlement."

"He said the war ended in self-defeat and criticized both the Trump and Biden administrations over the way the American troop withdrawal was handled."

He said ""What we did is surrendered to a Jihadist organization and assumed there would be no consequences for that,"


So . . . because we didn't destroy the Taliban, and now surrendered to it, is the war over? Are the various Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, and other Jihadist groups now emboldened to hurt us, or have they "learned their lesson" and will now stay away from us and just more confidently step up their extinction of non-Muslim people in the lands they rule or co-occupy with those non-Muslims?

And if it's the latter will we and the rest of the world not involve ourselves in their mission to exterminate millions of their non-Muslim countrymen?

And if, for some reason or other, the war with them is not over and it rears its ugly head, will we finally get together and just finally wipe them out and be done with it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I don't think Newsweek, Meet the Press, and General McMaster would be considered usual outlets for "they."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

"McMaster warned against 'self-delusion' that the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan means the war is over."

"McMaster believed the Taliban could have been defeated and that the troops were on a 'path to slowly strengthening over time.' He added it does not 'make sense' to tell the Taliban we're leaving, and that we want to negotiate a settlement."

"He said the war ended in self-defeat and criticized both the Trump and Biden administrations over the way the American troop withdrawal was handled."

He said ""What we did is surrendered to a Jihadist organization and assumed there would be no consequences for that,"


So . . . because we didn't destroy the Taliban, and now surrendered to it, is the war over? Are the various Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, and other Jihadist groups now emboldened to hurt us, or have they "learned their lesson" and will now stay away from us and just more confidently step up their extinction of non-Muslim people in the lands they rule or co-occupy with those non-Muslims?

And if it's the latter will we and the rest of the world not involve ourselves in their mission to exterminate millions of their non-Muslim countrymen?

And if, for some reason or other, the war with them is not over and it rears its ugly head, will we finally get together and just finally wipe them out and be done with it.

Because Genocide is ultimate solution
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Because Genocide is ultimate solution
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Your label, not mine. It seems to be the solution of choice by Muslims in many places.

Do you have a solution?

[Pete F.]

I just think it feels good to have a President who doesn’t draw his own hurricane maps.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Your label, not mine. It seems to be the solution of choice by Muslims in many places.

Do you have a solution?

As it happens, the US wiped 3 Afghan villages off the face of the earth in 2010. They were called Tarek Kolache, Khosrow Sofia and Lower Babur. These are the details of a 20-year war that don’t get remembered, let alone discussed. This barbarism was not hypothetical. It was fact.
People will remember what we did and seek revenge.
Much like you
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

As it happens, the US wiped 3 Afghan villages off the face of the earth in 2010. They were called Tarek Kolache, Khosrow Sofia and Lower Babur. These are the details of a 20-year war that don’t get remembered, let alone discussed. This barbarism was not hypothetical. It was fact.
People will remember what we did and seek revenge.
Much like you
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

A peculiar pathology in modern conservatism: The idea that the US government is too incompetent to execute domestic policy well, but it has extraordinary control over outcomes in countries it invades.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

I am still waiting on a provided solution from all the republicans the MAGA universe and conservative talking heads .. who now are smarter than the Generals (where did I hear that before ... ) who Claim the withdrawal could have been done Better ! Anything could have been done better in any Country we had boots on the Ground ..

But Conservatives and frankly Some Dems Want Our involvement with these story book happy endings ... But they cut and run once the Troops start dying .. then magically they cant accept the risk and try assigning Blame .. And history has shown us this is the Republican playbook again and again

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara attacked Nigerien and US soldiers outside the village of Tongo Tongo, Niger while they were returning to base after a stop in the village. 4 us SF died recorded on their own helmet cams they had no back up or Air on station .. no investigation no congressional hearings

Yet Four Americans died in the attack: Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, Information Officer Sean Smith, and two CIA operatives, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, ...

And Republican exploit their Deaths for political Advantage because the know Hillarys running for office ..

And this tongo tongo incident was under Trump and republican control no outrage no blame no he's got blood on his Hands same with the 64 kia in Afghanistan during Trump's Term! funny how that works


Yet Conservatives and republicans are silent when Troops die on their POTUS watch because they sell it to their voters as American Strength and great sacrifice keeping Americans safe ! while waving the flag !

However When American service members die under a democratic POTUS these same people sell it to their Base as weak leadership or Appeasement and they fall in line waving more flags Acting outraged and claiming now America is less safe they Dems hate our troops .. its divide and outrage 24x7


Combat is ugly people die on both Sides and I have said it Before
Americans need to either Accept the risks or STFU . Because trying to have it both ways place our troops in greater danger than they understand. they are not a pugs or a yellow lab that everyone love to love.
they are trained to Bite

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

I was listening to a reporter from the BBC this morning on NPR, Wayne loves the British press and I bet you love NPR, the reporter was commenting on Boris Johnson his recent remarks about UK service people's lives and efforts in Afghanistan not being in vain...and the reporter referred to the current situation in Afghanistan as "what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster"...those were not Boris' words, that was the characterization of the BBC reporter...probably a trump voter

the past 20 years or the past 2 weeks what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster

was it this guy ? Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said the UK had "abandoned the Afghan people".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58220730


The withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan is Britain's biggest foreign policy disaster since the Suez crisis of 1956, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee has said.

Tory party I would think they would be Trump Supporters

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

the past 20 years or the past 2 weeks what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster

was it this guy ? Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said the UK had "abandoned the Afghan people".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58220730


The withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan is Britain's biggest foreign policy disaster since the Suez crisis of 1956, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee has said.

Tory party I would think they would be Trump Supporters

yes tory party definitely voted for trump

it was a reporter and it was regarding recent developments....

don't worry I still think biden should get a nobel....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Combat is ugly people die on both Sides and I have said it Before
Americans need to either Accept the risks or STFU .

this is profound....

it's funny how the "question everything", everything is not "black and white" only shades of grey, there are "no absolutes", "resist resist", protest everything, occupy everything, mostly peacefully of course, don't tell ME what to do crowd... is now telling everyone to STFU and do what they are told....pretty amusing

[nightfighter]

I wonder how many others here are sick to death of having every discussion, event, or news story being politicized. Last I checked, my views on the withdrawal were as an American, viewing and praying for American troops, all wearing American uniforms with the American flag.....
You might as well just put up your affiliation in your signature. Those of you who view and post from only one aisle, be it blue or red, are nothing more than one trick ponies who lack the capacity to view each item on its own merits and happily post bullet points from your favorite partisan sources. Use your head for your reasoning. Don't blindly follow political postures and attacks from either side. Last I checked, there has not been a political platform with all the right answers.

[scottw]

feel better?


remember...not long ago....when everybody was busting out that old phrase...."well....I may not agree with what you have to say...but I'll defend to the death your right to say it!"....

I didn't believe them then.....and.....

it's pretty much become the exact opposite in fact.....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

was it this guy ? Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said the UK had "abandoned the Afghan people".

Tory party I would think they would be Trump Supporters

bi-partisanship..

Unprecedented Dishonor: UK Holds Biden in Contempt for 'Shameful' and 'Catastrophic' Afghanistan Withdrawal

Because of this, on Wednesday, the British Houses of Parliament decided to hold Biden’s handling of the situation in contempt, with lawmakers condemning his withdrawal plan as “catastrophic” and “shameful,” according to The Telegraph.


Members of parliament from across the political spectrum were forceful in their rebuke of Biden.

“The American decision to withdraw was not just a mistake — it was an avoidable mistake, from President Trump’s flawed deal with the Taliban to President Biden’s decision to proceed, and to proceed in such a disastrous way,” Liberal Democrat Leader Sir Ed Davey said.


Other liberal members of parliament, including Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer and Labour MPs Chris Bryant and Khalid Mahmood, denounced the president as well.

“The Biden government have just come in and, without looking at what is happening on the ground, have taken a unilateral decision, throwing us and everybody else to the fire,” Mahmood said.

[Pete F.]

History will have a different answer than the current political rhetoric.
This article from the Atlantic will likely be too much for some trolls to read.

America’s longest war has been by any measure a costly failure, and the errors in managing the conflict deserve scrutiny in the years to come. But Joe Biden doesn’t “own” the mayhem on the ground right now. What we’re seeing is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions by U.S. political and military leaders. If anything, Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks. President Biden deserves credit, not blame.
Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement. Although Donald Trump made a plan to end the war, he set a departure date that fell after the end of his first term and created conditions that made the situation Biden inherited more precarious. And despite significant pressure and obstacles, Biden has overseen a military and government that have managed, since the announcement of America’s withdrawal, one of the most extraordinary logistical feats in their recent history. By the time the last American plane lifts off from Hamid Karzai International Airport on August 31, the total number of Americans and Afghan allies extricated from the country may exceed 120,000.
In the days following the fall of Kabul earlier this month—an event that triggered a period of chaos, fear, and grief—critics castigated the Biden administration for its failure to properly coordinate the departure of the last Americans and allies from the country. The White House was indeed surprised by how quickly the Taliban took control, and those early days could have been handled better. But the critics argued that more planning both would have been able to stop the Taliban victory and might have made America’s departure somehow tidier, more like a win or perhaps even a draw. The chaos, many said, was symptomatic of a bigger error. They argued that the United States should stay in Afghanistan, that the cost of remaining was worth the benefits a small force might bring.
Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators who had long been advocates of extending America’s presence in Afghanistan, railed against Biden’s artificial deadline. Some critics were former Bush-administration officials or supporters who had gotten the U.S. into the mess in the first place, setting us on the impossible path toward nation building and, effectively, a mission without a clear exit or metric for success. Some were Obama-administration officials or supporters who had doubled down on the investment of personnel in the country and later, when the futility of the war was clear, lacked the political courage to withdraw. Some were Trump-administration officials or supporters who had negotiated with and helped strengthen the Taliban with their concessions in the peace deal and then had punted the ultimate exit from the country to the next administration.
They all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration. Never mind the fact that the Taliban had been gaining ground since it resumed its military campaign in 2004 and, according to U.S. estimates even four years ago, controlled or contested about a third of Afghanistan. Never mind that the previous administration’s deal with the Taliban included the release of 5,000 fighters from prison and favored an even earlier departure date than the one that Biden embraced. Never mind that Trump had drawn down U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500 during his last year in office and had failed to repatriate America’s equipment on the ground. Never mind the delay caused by Trump and his adviser Stephen Miller’s active obstruction of special visas for Afghans who helped us.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.

Despite the criticism, Biden, who had argued unsuccessfully when he was Barack Obama’s vice president to seriously reduce America’s presence in Afghanistan, remained resolute. Rather than view the heartbreaking scenes in Afghanistan in a political light as his opponents did, Biden effectively said, “Politics be damned—we’re going to do what’s right” and ordered his team to stick with the deadline and find a way to make the best of the difficult situation in Kabul.
The Biden administration nimbly adapted its plans, ramping up the airlift and sending additional troops into the country to aid crisis teams and to enhance security. Around-the-clock flights came into and went out of Afghanistan. Giant cargo planes departed, a number of them packed with as many as 600 occupants. Senior administration officials convened regular meetings with U.S. allies to find destinations for those planes to land and places for the refugees to stay. The State Department tracked down Americans in the country, as well as Afghans who had worked with the U.S., to arrange their passage to the airport. The Special Immigrant Visa program that the Trump administration had slowed down was kicked into high gear. Despite years of fighting, the administration and the military spoke with the Taliban many times to coordinate passage of those seeking to depart to the airport, to mitigate risks as best as possible, to discuss their shared interest in meeting the August 31 deadline.
The process was relentless and imperfect and, as we all have seen in the most horrific way, not without huge risks for those staying behind to help. On August 26, a suicide bomber associated with ISIS-K killed more than 150 Afghans and 13 American service members who were gathered outside the airport. However, even that heinous act didn’t deter the military. In a 24-hour period from Thursday to Friday, 12,500 people were airlifted out of the country and the president recommitted to meeting the August 31 deadline. And he did so even as his critics again sought to capitalize on tragedy for their own political gain: Republicans called for the impeachment of Biden and of Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Within hours of the attack at the airport, America struck back, killing two terrorists and injuring another with a missile launched from a drone. A separate drone strike targeted a vehicle full of explosives on Sunday. In doing so, Biden countered the argument that America might lack the intelligence or military resources we would need to defend ourselves against violent extremists now that our troops are leaving.
The very last chapter of America’s benighted stay in Afghanistan should be seen as one of accomplishment on the part of the military and its civilian leadership. Once again the courage and unique capabilities of the U.S. armed services have been made clear. And, in a stark change from recent years, an American leader has done the hard thing, the right thing: set aside politics and put both America’s interests and values first.

David Rothkopf is an author, a commentator, a former senior government official, and the host of the Deep State Radio podcast.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

History will have a different answer than the current political rhetoric.
This article from the Atlantic will likely be too much for some trolls to read.

America’s longest war has been by any measure a costly failure, and the errors in managing the conflict deserve scrutiny in the years to come. But Joe Biden doesn’t “own” the mayhem on the ground right now. What we’re seeing is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions by U.S. political and military leaders. If anything, Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks. President Biden deserves credit, not blame.
Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement. Although Donald Trump made a plan to end the war, he set a departure date that fell after the end of his first term and created conditions that made the situation Biden inherited more precarious. And despite significant pressure and obstacles, Biden has overseen a military and government that have managed, since the announcement of America’s withdrawal, one of the most extraordinary logistical feats in their recent history. By the time the last American plane lifts off from Hamid Karzai International Airport on August 31, the total number of Americans and Afghan allies extricated from the country may exceed 120,000.
In the days following the fall of Kabul earlier this month—an event that triggered a period of chaos, fear, and grief—critics castigated the Biden administration for its failure to properly coordinate the departure of the last Americans and allies from the country. The White House was indeed surprised by how quickly the Taliban took control, and those early days could have been handled better. But the critics argued that more planning both would have been able to stop the Taliban victory and might have made America’s departure somehow tidier, more like a win or perhaps even a draw. The chaos, many said, was symptomatic of a bigger error. They argued that the United States should stay in Afghanistan, that the cost of remaining was worth the benefits a small force might bring.
Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators who had long been advocates of extending America’s presence in Afghanistan, railed against Biden’s artificial deadline. Some critics were former Bush-administration officials or supporters who had gotten the U.S. into the mess in the first place, setting us on the impossible path toward nation building and, effectively, a mission without a clear exit or metric for success. Some were Obama-administration officials or supporters who had doubled down on the investment of personnel in the country and later, when the futility of the war was clear, lacked the political courage to withdraw. Some were Trump-administration officials or supporters who had negotiated with and helped strengthen the Taliban with their concessions in the peace deal and then had punted the ultimate exit from the country to the next administration.
They all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration. Never mind the fact that the Taliban had been gaining ground since it resumed its military campaign in 2004 and, according to U.S. estimates even four years ago, controlled or contested about a third of Afghanistan. Never mind that the previous administration’s deal with the Taliban included the release of 5,000 fighters from prison and favored an even earlier departure date than the one that Biden embraced. Never mind that Trump had drawn down U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500 during his last year in office and had failed to repatriate America’s equipment on the ground. Never mind the delay caused by Trump and his adviser Stephen Miller’s active obstruction of special visas for Afghans who helped us.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.

Despite the criticism, Biden, who had argued unsuccessfully when he was Barack Obama’s vice president to seriously reduce America’s presence in Afghanistan, remained resolute. Rather than view the heartbreaking scenes in Afghanistan in a political light as his opponents did, Biden effectively said, “Politics be damned—we’re going to do what’s right” and ordered his team to stick with the deadline and find a way to make the best of the difficult situation in Kabul.
The Biden administration nimbly adapted its plans, ramping up the airlift and sending additional troops into the country to aid crisis teams and to enhance security. Around-the-clock flights came into and went out of Afghanistan. Giant cargo planes departed, a number of them packed with as many as 600 occupants. Senior administration officials convened regular meetings with U.S. allies to find destinations for those planes to land and places for the refugees to stay. The State Department tracked down Americans in the country, as well as Afghans who had worked with the U.S., to arrange their passage to the airport. The Special Immigrant Visa program that the Trump administration had slowed down was kicked into high gear. Despite years of fighting, the administration and the military spoke with the Taliban many times to coordinate passage of those seeking to depart to the airport, to mitigate risks as best as possible, to discuss their shared interest in meeting the August 31 deadline.
The process was relentless and imperfect and, as we all have seen in the most horrific way, not without huge risks for those staying behind to help. On August 26, a suicide bomber associated with ISIS-K killed more than 150 Afghans and 13 American service members who were gathered outside the airport. However, even that heinous act didn’t deter the military. In a 24-hour period from Thursday to Friday, 12,500 people were airlifted out of the country and the president recommitted to meeting the August 31 deadline. And he did so even as his critics again sought to capitalize on tragedy for their own political gain: Republicans called for the impeachment of Biden and of Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Within hours of the attack at the airport, America struck back, killing two terrorists and injuring another with a missile launched from a drone. A separate drone strike targeted a vehicle full of explosives on Sunday. In doing so, Biden countered the argument that America might lack the intelligence or military resources we would need to defend ourselves against violent extremists now that our troops are leaving.
The very last chapter of America’s benighted stay in Afghanistan should be seen as one of accomplishment on the part of the military and its civilian leadership. Once again the courage and unique capabilities of the U.S. armed services have been made clear. And, in a stark change from recent years, an American leader has done the hard thing, the right thing: set aside politics and put both America’s interests and values first.

David Rothkopf is an author, a commentator, a former senior government official, and the host of the Deep State Radio podcast.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It read pretty much like what you referred to as "current political rhetoric."

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It read pretty much like what you referred to as "current political rhetoric."

Is that what the boy from Brazil who thinks for you says?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Is that what the boy from Brazil who thinks for you says?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Is that what you think?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is that what you think?

Don’t you have a YouTube video for this?

Congress authorized US forces to go after 9/11 culprits in September 2001, Osama bin Laden the leader of the Saudis who attacked the USA was killed years ago. When did Congress vote to declare war on Afghanistan?

We have more to fear from the next Terry McVeigh or Floyd Ray Rosebury in this country than we do from ISIS or the Taliban.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device