Disaster

[Pete F.]

DeSantis is on his way to catching up, with a daily average for the past seven days that is only behind Mississippi and NYS is at the other end of the spectrum, just a little ahead of CT.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

DeSantis is on his way to catching up, with a daily average for the past seven days that is only behind Mississippi and NYS is at the other end of the spectrum, just a little ahead of CT.

i am sure you’ll have huge orgasms if Florida catches NY in deaths. i’m
just watching.
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[wdmso]

Anti-Taliban Resistance Declares It Will Fight On in Panjshir

Republicans including Rep, Mike Waltz, R-Fla., have urged Biden to help the resistance in its cause.

will republicans ever learn ?

the GOP are falling over these Guys wanting to send weapons and support as if the last 20yrs never happened ... where were they when the taliban took over? defending their own personal little slice of Afghanistan..

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i am sure you’ll have huge orgasms if Florida catches NY in deaths. i’m
just watching.
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Jim, you’ve been orgasmic for the past week, since the people who feed you misinformation said the withdrawal from Afghanistan should have been somehow improved or better yet not done at all.

You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim, you’ve been orgasmic for the past week, since the people who feed you misinformation said the withdrawal from Afghanistan should have been somehow improved or better yet not done at all.

You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity
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if it’s misinformation to conclude that biden bungled this, that means the only informed ones are the liberal fanatics. that’s not the case. only rabid fanatics are saying we should have been able to do better.

When a very, very liberal congressman from massachusetts, who also did 4 tours there with the marines says it was a “fu—ing disaster” and “preventable”, i don’t know on what basis Id doubt him. it doesn’t benefit him politically to say that, so i assume he’s an honorable guy who’s being honest. as opposed to, say, you.

we can’t all be as well informed as the guy who claims that last weeks death rates are more important than inception to date death rates.

I have no doubt i appear strange to you. Intellectual honesty, no doubt, appears bizarre to someone who is incapable of it.

You were banned from starting threads here by the fairest guy in the world, because you were so deranged. But i’m strange. Whatever you say, Columbo.

Who do you get along with here, other than the people
who agree with you on every issue? i’ve disagreed with rock hound, scott, detbuch, dangles, tdf, and john. the disagreements have always been respectful.

When was the last time you had a healthy, respectful disagreement with someone here?

I’m not sure i agree with rock hound in a single solitary issue. maybe other then gay marriage. but i think he’s sharp and honest and serious and beneficial to go back and forth with. which conservatives here can you say that about?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim, you’ve been orgasmic for the past week, since the people who feed you misinformation said the withdrawal from Afghanistan should have been somehow improved or better yet not done at all.

You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity
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not done at all? can you please tell us which prominent conservative voices, are saying we shouldn’t have withdrawn from afghanistan? i don’t know that i’ve heard a single influential person say that, and I mean that.

Who are you referring to? Or are you hearing voices?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

not done at all? can you please tell us which prominent conservative voices, are saying we shouldn’t have withdrawn from afghanistan? i don’t know that i’ve heard a single influential person say that, and I mean that.

Who are you referring to? Or are you hearing voices?
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Since I have seen nobody including you the greatest military mind of your generation explain in detail the alternative to GTFO, but propose to gain control of a sovereign country thru military force and you would do this with some magical force other than troops on the ground, yes you’re full of #^&#^&#^&#^&
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Since I have seen nobody including you the greatest military mind of your generation explain in detail the alternative to GTFO, but propose to gain control of a sovereign country thru military force and you would do this with some magical force other than troops on the ground, yes you’re full of #^&#^&#^&#^&
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they could have kept Bagram and used that when kabul got crazy. they could have gotten citizens out first, then military. there, those are the alternatives as presented by military. including dan crenshaw, tom cotton ( who have political motives too) and Seth Moulton, who is a liberal democrat and therefore has exactly zero political motive. None.

you asked, i answered. now can you show me the same courtesy? who are the influential conservatives, who you claim are saying we should not have left afghanistan?

you made the claim, just back it up. why is that so hard. unless you lied.
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[Pete F.]

Unfortunately your scenario doesn’t eliminate the interface between the group trying to leave and the people helping them to.
I don’t need to find the people who said we shouldn’t leave now for you, look in the mirror
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I don’t need to find the people who said we shouldn’t leave now for you, look in the mirror
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so you made it up.

i said very specifically i agreed with getting out.

you’re a liar. caught.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so you made it up.

i said very specifically i agreed with getting out.

you’re a liar. caught.
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Sorry little man, while you claim that, your solution inevitably leads to more boots on the ground.
Twenty years is enough
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry little man, while you claim that, your solution inevitably leads to more boots on the ground.
Twenty years is enough
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we can’t all be as impressive as a keyboard tough guy who wilts when asked a brutal question such as “ who said what you claim republicans are saying?”

i mean, who can measure up to that?

You asked who provided alternatives, i listed a link. I supported my claim.

i asked who said we should still be in afghanistan, and you say “i’m not looking it up for you.”. you can’t support your claim, but you tru and make that my flaw, not yours.

every one has an issue with you, but that’s all our fault, not yours. it’s all everyone else’s character flaws, nothing to do with you.
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[Pete F.]

Nobody said we shouldn’t withdraw now?
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[Pete F.]

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) says he believes the United States “will be going back into Afghanistan” despite the recently declared end of nearly two decades of American military presence in the country.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) says he believes the United States “will be going back into Afghanistan” despite the recently declared end of nearly two decades of American military presence in the country.
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I’ll try to go slow so even you can understand…

predicting that we will go back, isn’t the same as saying we shouldn’t have withdrawn. Those are two different things.

I think we should have pulled out a long time ago. I also think there’s a meaningful chance we have to go back some day ( if jihadists become a threat).

Stick to insulting the children of the members here, you’re better at that.
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[Jim in CT]

Pete i looked up Graham’s comments on the withdrawal. i didn’t see anything to indicate he thinks we should stay forever. he just thinks we should
have had a better plan to withdraw. that’s what almost everyone is saying. The withdrawal was the right idea, but it was poorly executed.

You suggested that a meaningful republican force wishes we stayed. i honestly don’t know a single person who has ever said that, for sure that’s not what any meaningful
number of conservatives are saying.

You claimed we were saying that. You lied.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete i looked up Graham’s comments on the withdrawal. i didn’t see anything to indicate he thinks we should stay forever. he just thinks we should
have had a better plan to withdraw. that’s what almost everyone is saying. The withdrawal was the right idea, but it was poorly executed.

You suggested that a meaningful republican force wishes we stayed. i honestly don’t know a single person who has ever said that, for sure that’s not what any meaningful
number of conservatives are saying.

You claimed we were saying that. You lied.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

toe the party line

Mr. Trump came into office having reversed his party’s long-held position on foreign interventions and called for an immediate removal of American troops stationed overseas. In February 2020, he announced a peace treaty with the Taliban, negotiated by Mr. Pompeo, that called for ending the American presence by May 1, 2021.

After his defeat last November, Republicans clung to Mr. Trump’s America-first line. They urged Mr. Biden to stick to the May 1 deadline, and publicly groused when Mr. Biden extended the date for a withdrawal until Aug. 31. “That kind of thinking has kept us in Afghanistan nearly 20 years,” Representative Andy Biggs of Arizona complained at the time.

But as the Americans’ final days in Afghanistan devolved last month into a frantic race to get more than 125,000 people out — during which 13 service members were killed in a bombing attack outside the Kabul airport — Republican lawmakers and candidates who had embraced Mr. Trump’s agreement with the Taliban abruptly changed their tune. They savaged Mr. Biden for negotiating with the Taliban and denounced his avowed eagerness to wind down the American presence in Afghanistan before Sept. 11, calling it a sign of weakness.

“I would not allow the Taliban to dictate the date that Americans leave,” Mr. McCarthy said at a news conference on Friday. “But this president did, and I don’t believe any other president would, Republican or Democrat, outside of Joe Biden.”

Once defined by its hawkishness, the G.O.P. since Mr. Trump’s 2016 election has ruptured into camps of traditional interventionists like Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, who never quite warmed to Mr. Trump’s inward-looking foreign policy, and backers of Mr. Trump’s America-first approach, who shared his impatience in extricating the nation from intractable conflicts abroad.

Last year, Mr. McConnell, then the majority leader, took to the Senate floor to decry Mr. Trump’s planned withdrawal from Afghanistan, warning that a premature exit would be “reminiscent of the humiliating American departure from Saigon.”

But hitting Mr. Biden unites them all.

The Republican calls for Mr. Biden’s resignation, impeachment or removal from office under the 25th Amendment are also a reminder of how much more polarized the country’s politics have become since the start of the U.S. war in Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, when Democrats and Republicans alike united behind President George W. Bush.

No Republican has turned faster on the Afghanistan withdrawal than Mr. Trump himself, who after years of espousing a return to isolationism has spent the last two weeks attacking Mr. Biden for carrying out the very withdrawal he had demanded and then negotiated.

As late as April 18, Mr. Trump exhorted Mr. Biden to accelerate the timetable for withdrawal: “I planned to withdraw on May 1st,” he said. “We should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”

Once things appeared to go haywire, however, the former president began to speak out against the withdrawal.

On Aug. 24, Mr. Trump accused Mr. Biden of forcing the military to “run off the battlefield,” leaving “thousands” of Americans as “hostages.” And he suggested that Mr. Biden should have kept at least some troop presence in Afghanistan.

“We had Afghanistan and Kabul in perfect control with just 2,500 soldiers and he destroyed it when it was demanded that they flee!” Mr. Trump said.

Other Republicans fell in behind Mr. Trump in attacking the president: Mr. McCarthy urged his lawmakers in a letter this week to make the case that Mr. Biden was single-handedly responsible for “the worst foreign policy disaster in a generation.”

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

toe the party line

Mr. Trump came into office having reversed his party’s long-held position on foreign interventions and called for an immediate removal of American troops stationed overseas. In February 2020, he announced a peace treaty with the Taliban, negotiated by Mr. Pompeo, that called for ending the American presence by May 1, 2021.

After his defeat last November, Republicans clung to Mr. Trump’s America-first line. They urged Mr. Biden to stick to the May 1 deadline, and publicly groused when Mr. Biden extended the date for a withdrawal until Aug. 31. “That kind of thinking has kept us in Afghanistan nearly 20 years,” Representative Andy Biggs of Arizona complained at the time.

But as the Americans’ final days in Afghanistan devolved last month into a frantic race to get more than 125,000 people out — during which 13 service members were killed in a bombing attack outside the Kabul airport — Republican lawmakers and candidates who had embraced Mr. Trump’s agreement with the Taliban abruptly changed their tune. They savaged Mr. Biden for negotiating with the Taliban and denounced his avowed eagerness to wind down the American presence in Afghanistan before Sept. 11, calling it a sign of weakness.

“I would not allow the Taliban to dictate the date that Americans leave,” Mr. McCarthy said at a news conference on Friday. “But this president did, and I don’t believe any other president would, Republican or Democrat, outside of Joe Biden.”

Once defined by its hawkishness, the G.O.P. since Mr. Trump’s 2016 election has ruptured into camps of traditional interventionists like Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, who never quite warmed to Mr. Trump’s inward-looking foreign policy, and backers of Mr. Trump’s America-first approach, who shared his impatience in extricating the nation from intractable conflicts abroad.

Last year, Mr. McConnell, then the majority leader, took to the Senate floor to decry Mr. Trump’s planned withdrawal from Afghanistan, warning that a premature exit would be “reminiscent of the humiliating American departure from Saigon.”

But hitting Mr. Biden unites them all.

The Republican calls for Mr. Biden’s resignation, impeachment or removal from office under the 25th Amendment are also a reminder of how much more polarized the country’s politics have become since the start of the U.S. war in Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, when Democrats and Republicans alike united behind President George W. Bush.

No Republican has turned faster on the Afghanistan withdrawal than Mr. Trump himself, who after years of espousing a return to isolationism has spent the last two weeks attacking Mr. Biden for carrying out the very withdrawal he had demanded and then negotiated.

As late as April 18, Mr. Trump exhorted Mr. Biden to accelerate the timetable for withdrawal: “I planned to withdraw on May 1st,” he said. “We should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”

Once things appeared to go haywire, however, the former president began to speak out against the withdrawal.

On Aug. 24, Mr. Trump accused Mr. Biden of forcing the military to “run off the battlefield,” leaving “thousands” of Americans as “hostages.” And he suggested that Mr. Biden should have kept at least some troop presence in Afghanistan.

“We had Afghanistan and Kabul in perfect control with just 2,500 soldiers and he destroyed it when it was demanded that they flee!” Mr. Trump said.

Other Republicans fell in behind Mr. Trump in attacking the president: Mr. McCarthy urged his lawmakers in a letter this week to make the case that Mr. Biden was single-handedly responsible for “the worst foreign policy disaster in a generation.”

pete, they’re saying we shouldn’t have left until we were sure our citizens and allies were out. if that’s such an extremist position, maybe biden shouldn’t have promised to do precisely that. a promise he walked away from a couple of days later. and that’s what got him into hot water with americans.

Get your citizens out first, then destroy any valuable equipment you can’t take, then you leave. that’s what a lot of people ( not just republicans, despite what you say, as biden’s approval ratings tanked with independents) are saying.

you desperately, desperately want to believe that no one to the left of sean hannity believes he blew it. While it would be great for your personal agenda if that were the case, the fact is, it’s not the case.

doubtful anyone will remember this come the midterms. so chin up.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete, they’re saying we shouldn’t have left until we were sure our citizens and allies were out. if that’s such an extremist position, maybe biden shouldn’t have promised to do precisely that. a promise he walked away from a couple of days later. and that’s what got him into hot water with americans.

Get your citizens out first, then destroy any valuable equipment you can’t take, then you leave. that’s what a lot of people ( not just republicans, despite what you say, as biden’s approval ratings tanked with independents) are saying.

you desperately, desperately want to believe that no one to the left of sean hannity believes he blew it. While it would be great for your personal agenda if that were the case, the fact is, it’s not the case.

doubtful anyone will remember this come the midterms. so chin up.
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Keep toeing the party line

I see you qualified it as "Get your citizens out first, then destroy any valuable equipment you can’t take, then you leave."

TFG had plans to evacuate just as many Afghans as he did Kurds and blocked the vast majority of SIVs for his term.

No viable alternative has been presented that did not involve remobilizing troops to Pre January levels.

Keeping Bagram in addition to Kabul would require more troops and provides no added protection against suicide bombers at the evacuee interface.

Using Bagram instead of Kabul would have exposed more than a hundred thousand people to more dangerous situations than a single suicide bomber, including our troops and not eliminated suicide bombers.

As far as destroying all the equipment we provided to the Afghan army, would you have done that before, during or after their demise? Don't you think the Taliban would have noticed that the Afghan army was being disarmed?

We sold Blackhawks to China 20 years ago, and the Russians have had the basics for over 30.
The Super Tucano is Brazilian and on sale for 20 years.

More than 100K people (and likely substantially more) were killed during the U.S. presence in Afghanistan. Congress reflexively spent billions each year with no real oversight. Where was your universal outrage and condemnation during 20 years of horror and incompetence?

We're out, it's over, lets make sure we don't go try and setup a new Government again, though given our record I don't have a lot of faith.

[Got Stripers]

Jim looks like the administration has negotiated the flight of a couple hundred including Americans as he promised he would as other avenues opened up, rage on.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Jim looks like the administration has negotiated the flight of a couple hundred including Americans as he promised he would as other avenues opened up, rage on.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

All I feel about that, is happiness for those folks, and gratitude that the administration kept at it. If we get them all out, then this wasn't the disaster that Biden critics predicted that it would be.

Fair enough?

Deny on...

[wdmso]

Trump If we only had Robert E Lee to command our Troops in Afghanistan , that disaster would have ended in a complete and Total victory many years ago. What an embarrassment we are suffering because we dont have the genius of a Robert E Lee !

I am sorry if your a Conservative or a Republican and still support this seditious scumBag you're a bigger threat to America the the Taliban ever was

[Pete F.]

By the way, not to take Trump’s idiotic posturing too seriously, but:

Trump was president.

If he thought the commanders in Afghanistan were doing a bad job, he could have removed them.

But of course he never cared a whit about the troops serving in Afghanistan, or elsewhere.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," . . .

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come.

This is interesting. When I said that my concern over millions of illegal immigrants being accepted here, with the Democrat Party's support and encouragement of it, was because they would cause a demographic political shift to the left, you insisted that my concern was really because the immigrants had brown skin.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I am sorry if your a Conservative or a Republican and still support this seditious scumBag you're a bigger threat to America the the Taliban ever was

that's stupid.

Americans liked his policies wayne, sorry to break it to you. They hated his behavior, loved his results. That's why more Americans said they were better off after 4 years of Trump, than after 4 years of any other president, according to Gallup. I'd love to know what you think this poll means. That Trump broke that record during a pandemic, is shocking.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...go/ar-BB1a0Qbp

And did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just what is Sharia Law?
In Arabic, the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations.

The "contrast" is not a contradiction or separation from God's immutable divine law. It is not a separate law, it is scholarly and judicial interpretation of the divine law in order to apply it to existing conditions.

Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern? And that it supersedes any law written by Man.

I don't know which "many" Christians you refer to, but the New Testament part of the Bible is not concerned with government and its ways of governing. Christ said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." Islam, on the other hand, is a prescription for government and governing. Islam is both a religion and a form of government. It is theocracy.

If there was a conflict between God’s law and Man’s law, a Christian would be advised to keep God’s Law. It would be better to go to jail than to rot in Hell. — Truthinlove.com

But a Christian would not impose and enforce God's law on others, on non-believers. An Islamist who had the power, in a predominantly Muslim nation, would impose Islam on all those in the nation.



God said it. I believe it. That settles it.

Which God, Christian, Muslim, or yours?

In the Moral Majority’s founding treatise, they were very clear in their belief that God’s law trumps Man’s law, a Christian form of Sharia law. To them, it was imperative to highjack every means of forcing Man’s law to mirror God’s law with patience (they have been at this for over forty years), surgical political strategies (Citizens United, gerrymandering), and utter ruthlessness (encouraging conspiracy theories and sedition from the pulpit.)


This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump. After almost forty years, their goal of making the United States a theocracy ruled by God’s law was within reach.

The Christian God's law trumping Man's law came over 600 years before Sharia law. It is not a form of Sharia law.

And the Evangelical sects, as well as Catholics and other Protestants, are not as societally exclusive as Seventh Day Adventists, Amish and others who do not participate in politics or don't even vote. So they have secular as well as religious participation in society. Though they may, like atheists or other religions, try to get legislation that they feel strongly about whether for religious or other personal preferences, they go through the legal process. Some might prefer a Christian theocracy, but that would go against the reasons they broke away from the Catholicism that was so deeply affiliated with government before the Reformation. And even before that Reformation, there was no substantial Christian theocracy. The Pope had great influence, but the Monarchs had the last word, if they chose to express it and enforce it.

I doubt that there is any significant desire in the Evangelicals to transform America into a Theocracy. But it's politically effective to make them bogymen.

Because of Mitch McConnell’s block of judicial confirmations in the United States Senate, federal judicial benches around the country sat vacant. With a transactionally conservative President, a takeover of the liberal federal judiciary was within reach, not only to overturn Roe v Wade, but to enact a raft of Bible-based nationwide legislation. Trump further validated evangelical Christians by elevating one to vice-president; he never questioned their candidates for federal judicial appointments; and he paid lip service to their importance.

Do you think Pence wants to make us a Theocracy? Do you think it's appropriate to question judicial candidates about their religious views or their political views? Do you think appointing judges by race is appropriate. Is it appropriate to appoint judges according to their party affiliation?

Wouldn't the only important question be their fidelity to the Constitution?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

that's stupid.

Americans liked his policies wayne, sorry to break it to you. They hated his behavior, loved his results. That's why more Americans said they were better off after 4 years of Trump, than after 4 years of any other president, according to Gallup. I'd love to know what you think this poll means. That Trump broke that record during a pandemic, is shocking.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...go/ar-BB1a0Qbp

And did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

Only Stupid I see is people's need to rationalizing things. when Speaking about Trump as if he was 2 different people? its all based on a cult of personality.. he made white people feel better . while attempting to destroy every democratic Norm along the way .. Lying as he did it . And if some of americans like his policies they were enough or he would still be President and even the electoral college couldn't save him

As for did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

I am not black nor entitled to be offended

Joe Biden apologized hours after he told a popular African-American radio host that anyone struggling to decide whether to support him or President Donald Trump in the general election "ain't black."

And seem they accepted His Apology (they voted for him) not sure why you haven't accepted His apology ?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only Stupid I see is people's need to rationalizing things. when Speaking about Trump as if he was 2 different people? its all based on a cult of personality.. he made white people feel better . while attempting to destroy every democratic Norm along the way .. Lying as he did it . And if some of americans like his policies they were enough or he would still be President and even the electoral college couldn't save him

As for did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

I am not black nor entitled to be offended

Joe Biden apologized hours after he told a popular African-American radio host that anyone struggling to decide whether to support him or President Donald Trump in the general election "ain't black."

And seem they accepted His Apology (they voted for him) not sure why you haven't accepted His apology ?

you say i’m in a cult. no. it’s based on the gallup poll.

and you won’t comment on biden’s racist remarks, but you hold trump accountable for his mis deeds. you seriously don’t see that?
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you say i’m in a cult.

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when are you meetings?...can I watch them on Zoom?.. and do you have a secret handshake?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only Stupid I see is people's need to rationalizing things.

I am not black nor entitled to be offended

Joe Biden apologized hours after he told a popular African-American radio host that anyone struggling to decide whether to support him or President Donald Trump in the general election "ain't black."

And seem they accepted His Apology (they voted for him)

rationalizing perhaps...