student loan forgivemess

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

After World War II, U.S. taxpayers funded the GI bill that paid tuition for white veterans (talk about unfairness—veterans of color were excluded) to attend the college or trade school of their choice..

They went to war.

If anyone with a student loan wants to serve in the military or teach in an inner city (or any service like that), no one would oppose helping them pay for their loans. These students aren't doing that service, they just want a freebie.

How in Gods name can you not see that difference?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

of course Jim picks the least likely outcome .. and presents it as the Norm not the exception

FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers they also get their housing subsidized by the government BHA starts at 2900 bucks a month for an e 5 and tops out at $5,037 in Boston

I know a lot of people who have had their homes paid for via the taxpayers and its cost them nothing out of pocket


Hell I know 1 person who just made a 100k of the sale of his home which the government BHA basic housing allotment paid his entire mortgage.. and his friend who are not married are forced to live in on base housing and do not get an extra 2900 bucks to buy a home

its not fair but thats the system

Why is that unlikely?

"FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers"

Yes, Einstein, and they are also serving the taxpayer, so it's reasonable that they'd be funded by the taxpayer. That's not what this program is, this loan forgiveness gives a windfall to everyone with a loan with no requirement that they do anything of public service.

How do you not see that?

[wdmso]

iti

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Wrong.

The forgiven PPP "loans" were not set up as loans. The agreement, up front, was that the money would not have to be re-paid if the business used it to fund payroll and hired most employees back. That was the agreement. That's what both parties agreed to.

With your daughters student loan, which was always presented to her as a loan, the agreement was that she would benefit from the loan, and she would pay it back.

If she didn't want to have to pay it back, she had many options...different school, working first, joining the military, learning a trade, etc.. who ever said anyone getting this relife never wanted to pay it back

Nobody ever said that government spending had to benefit everyone equally. But we should try to avoid abject stupidity. So just because you think it is stupid its stupid . ok

You daughter agreed to take out a loan to fund the benefit of going to college. It's her responsibility to re-pay it, not the responsibility of someone who made a different choice.

my daughter didn't change a thing but keep thinking people getting this relief are not acting responsible . your suggesting is a lie

"this sums up the tears entitlement of student loan haters forgiveness supporters myopic view of the world"...

gimme gimme gimme.

WDMSO, how much of other peoples money are liberals entitled to, exactly? Is there any limit? I mean this, this is a sincere question, how much of my paycheck are you entitled to, and how much of my paycheck are my kids and I entitled to? need a tissue Jim

of course jim hiding being wording to justify his position shocking

Jim where is the mechanism for people who took out PPP loans that insured that money actually went to employees as required by law


Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) borrowers may be eligible for loan forgiveness if the funds were used
for eligible payroll costs, payments on business mortgage interest payments, rent, or utilities during either
the 8- or 24-week period after disbursement. A borrower can apply for forgiveness once it has used all
loan proceeds for which the borrower is requesting forgiveness. Borrowers can apply for forgiveness
any time up to the maturity date of the loan. If borrowers do not apply for forgiveness within 10
months after the last day of the covered period, then PPP loan payments are no longer deferred and
borrowers will begin making loan payments to their PPP lender.


Republicans love their Business socialism but help for the avg american is bad Socialism

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Why is that unlikely?

"FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers"

Yes, Einstein, and they are also serving the taxpayer, so it's reasonable that they'd be funded by the taxpayer. That's not what this program is, this loan forgiveness gives a windfall to everyone with a loan with no requirement that they do anything of public service.

How do you not see that?

you just hate it for the sake of hating it like i said you love socialism when its benefits corporations .. but when it benefits everyday americans not so much

but you want your school voucher and no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling

[Jim in CT]

WDMSO, is it just me who says it's stupid?

Please tell me what I see here, that's wrong...

This forgiveness punishes people who either paid their loans off already, or chose not to take out loans. It rewards those who chose to take out the loans, who now won't have to fulfill that obligation.

It generally will transfer money from poorer Americans (those who didn't go to college) to wealthier Americans (family income cap of $250k and that's taxable income, so after deductions).

It does nothing to get at the actual root of the problem (college cists) and probably makes it worse, as it gives colleges an unimaginable incentive to increase tuition again, since the feds are picking up part of the tab.

Stupid. And a lot of people agree with me.

But it puts money in your pocket, so we shouldn't complain.

Finally, this robs borrowers of the sense of accomplishment one derives from being self sufficient. We are further crippling these kids.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

yep but this is ok.. because people like to dance around wording . as if it makes it ok .. hell at its core it's a conflict of interest

isn't this whataboutism?...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

you just hate it for the sake of hating it like i said you love socialism when its benefits corporations .. but when it benefits everyday americans not so much

but you want your school voucher and no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling

"you just hate it for the sake of hating it"

No, I hate it because it punishes those who did the right thing (or had nothing whatsoever to do with those loans because they didn't go to college), it rewards people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, it's perfectly regressive in that it will take from the poor and give to the wealthy, and it will make college more expensive, less expensive.

"no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling"

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

Do you understand the difference between my money, and someone else's money?

Youre either lying to try to make your point, or you really have no grasp of this stuff.

YOU are the one who supports taking other peoples money to fund your kids education, because that's exactly what this stupidity is.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

isn't this whataboutism?...

Not when democrats do it, only when I do it...

[Got Stripers]

Those college kids all planned to pay back those loans as soon as the millionaire tax breaks trickled down to them, I don’t understand the rush to forgive loans it would get to them haha.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"you just hate it for the sake of hating it"

No, I hate it because it punishes those who did the right thing (or had nothing whatsoever to do with those loans because they didn't go to college), it rewards people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, it's perfectly regressive in that it will take from the poor and give to the wealthy, and it will make college more expensive, less expensive.

"no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling"

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

Do you understand the difference between my money, and someone else's money?

Youre either lying to try to make your point, or you really have no grasp of this stuff.

YOU are the one who supports taking other peoples money to fund your kids education, because that's exactly what this stupidity is.

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

to bad that's not how taxes work

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

to bad that's not how taxes work

you brought up school choice, not me. i agree that’s not a tax. But you brought it up, not me, and you lied saying i want others to pay for my kids to go to private school.

Tigger alkyl have a problem with letting others decide things for themselves, and for fulfilling obligations we agree to take on,,don’t you.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you brought up school choice, not me. i agree that’s not a tax. But you brought it up, not me, and you lied saying i want others to pay for my kids to go to private school.

Tigger alkyl have a problem with letting others decide things for themselves, and for fulfilling obligations we agree to take on,,don’t you.

jim those who are getting the relife . Most never asked for it .. not sure why you can't accept that ... and if it never happened would still be paying their loans and many are still paying their loans because they have more that 10k left to pay . but lets ignore that part

Also jim your taxes over 10 years don't even cover 1 of your childrens cost in a public school never mind 3 children

just like what i posted you'll want a tax refund because your house never had a fire or you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes once you kids are out of school

So in a nutshell you want other taxpayers to subsidize your school choice.. you can't say that's not True . be we all know how it works

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

jim those who are getting the relife . Most never asked for it .. not sure why you can't accept that ... and if it never happened would still be paying their loans and many are still paying their loans because they have more that 10k left to pay . but lets ignore that part

Also jim your taxes over 10 years don't even cover 1 of your childrens cost in a public school never mind 3 children

just like what i posted you'll want a tax refund because your house never had a fire or you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes once you kids are out of school

So in a nutshell you want other taxpayers to subsidize your school choice.. you can't say that's not True . be we all know how it works

"Most never asked for it .. not sure why you can't accept that "

When did I say that everyone asked for it? I'm criticizing Biden for doing it, and I'm criticizing those like you who say it's sound policy.

I agree most people are just quietly paying off their loans, they didn't ask for this, and they'd be stupid to turn it down.

But you are denying its stupid policy. And you can't defend that, which is why you are claiming I said something I never came close to saying.

"Also jim your taxes over 10 years don't even cover 1 of your childrens cost in a public school"

What in Gods name are you talking about? My annual property taxes to my town are about $8500 for my house, another $2k for my cars and camper. I also pay a ton of state income tax, of which a good chunk goes from my state to my town.

My 2 younger kids go to a K-8 catholic school that costs about $5,500 a year.

How can you just make stuff up, out of thin air?

What I have asked for, is that A PORTION of what I pay to my town (not all of it) gets returned to me if I put my kids in Catholic school. It's my money. They're my kids. Let some of my money (not all of it) go with my kids, to fund a vastly superior education at about one-third the cost of the crappy public education.

You're humiliating yourself with demonstrable falsehoods.

I'm asking for a portion of my money back, that's all. Student loan forgiveness wants other peoples money. That's a very big difference.

"you'll want a tax refund because your house never had a fire or you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes once you kids are out of school "

Again, you're stupidly wrong. I'll happily fund fire, police, and schools once my kids are out. Even when my kids are grown, I still have a vested interest in having good schools in my community.

Once again, you're claiming that I said things which I have never come close to saying. Even you know that you can't respond to what I'm saying, so you pretend I said stupid things which I'd never, ever say.

Is there any way you can try to stop claiming I''m saying things I never said, and instead respond to what I'm actually saying?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Is there any way you can try to stop claiming I''m saying things I never said, and instead respond to what I'm actually saying?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) borrowers may be eligible for loan forgiveness if the funds were used
for eligible payroll costs, payments on business mortgage interest payments, rent, or utilities during either
the 8- or 24-week period after disbursement. A borrower can apply for forgiveness once it has used all
loan proceeds for which the borrower is requesting forgiveness. Borrowers can apply for forgiveness
any time up to the maturity date of the loan. If borrowers do not apply for forgiveness within 10
months after the last day of the covered period, then PPP loan payments are no longer deferred and
borrowers will begin making loan payments to their PPP lender.

You're proving my point.

When businesses took PPP funds, they were not set up as loans. The business owner agreed to spend the money on payroll and agreed to hire the employees back. If they did that, the feds agreed to waive repayment. So both parties did what they agreed to do.

That's not even close to what's happening here. These borrowers signed a contract to repay the loan. That was the agreement. They're changing the terms after the fact.

Apples and oranges.

And I don't like business socialism, I didn't like the covid bailouts or PPP. But another big difference, is that business owners didn't choose to lose their business income. That was forced upon them (unnecessarily as it turns out) by state governments. Business owners did not choose to be shut down, it was forced on them.

Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.

My wife got a masters degree in data analytics, we looked at student loans, decided to take put a home equity loan instead. Took 3 years to pay it off, made the last payment a few weeks ago. I guess we were suckers for doing what we said we'd do.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

They went to war.

If anyone with a student loan wants to serve in the military or teach in an inner city (or any service like that), no one would oppose helping them pay for their loans. These students aren't doing that service, they just want a freebie.

How in Gods name can you not see that difference?

Guessing you missed black soldier’s weren’t allowed to use the benefit


You keep blaming students! There not driving the bus. Then claim that’s not what you’re doing

But insisting “Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.”

You should learn division seeing you think your taxes are not divided among many local and state needs. And in no way cover your children education not to mention 3 no matter how you try to twist the math

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Guessing you missed black soldier’s weren’t allowed to use the benefit


You keep blaming students! There not driving the bus. Then claim that’s not what you’re doing

But insisting “Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.”

You should learn division seeing you think your taxes are not divided among many local and state needs. And in no way cover your children education not to mention 3 no matter how you try to twist the math

i just said 5 minutes ago, i blame biden and advocates for this bill, not people who were paying their loans.

you lie like Trump, you know that? You lie constantly, every single
time you’re on the losing side of a debate. as you are here with this indefensible stupidity. BecUse you can’t just admit it makes no sense.

I also just said i’m fine with my taxes going to things i don’t hope
to ever use. I could not have been more clear. Then you say i don’t get that my taxes are spread around.

You aren’t capable of being honest for three consecutive sentences

Some of my tax dollars are used to educate my kids. I ask for some ( not all ) of that back. i know that may not cover tuition at catholic school, but every little bit helps.

I also know that if public school faced competition, they improve very quickly.

Yes wayne, i insist that no one forced your daughter to take student loans. Am i wrong, or am I correct?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Guessing you missed black soldier’s weren’t allowed to use the benefit


You keep blaming students! There not driving the bus. Then claim that’s not what you’re doing

But insisting “Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.”

You should learn division seeing you think your taxes are not divided among many local and state needs. And in no way cover your children education not to mention 3 no matter how you try to twist the math

I don't blame your daughter for the implementation of this policy. I use her as an example of why it's stupid policy, because it retroactively changes the terms of her agreement, and she didn't do anything to deserve it.

Why not hold universities accountable? Why not force them to have some skin in this game.

Wayne, what would you say to someone who would have gone to college but didn't want the debt, so they joined the military instead? What do you say to people who made a different choice for that exact reason? "ha ha, too bad you sucker"?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't blame your daughter for the implementation of this policy. I use her as an example of why it's stupid policy, because it retroactively changes the terms of her agreement, and she didn't do anything to deserve it.

Why not hold universities accountable? Why not force them to have some skin in this game.

Wayne, what would you say to someone who would have gone to college but didn't want the debt, so they joined the military instead? What do you say to people who made a different choice for that exact reason? "ha ha, too bad you sucker"?

I made the same choice never considered myself a sucker

I joined to server my country not avoid debt

[Pete F.]

I’m waiting for someone to make the argument for universal government insurance, after all competition is good.

And by the way Jim, it’s likely that all of your taxes and some paid by others go to fund your childrens education and associated costs.
We do that in this country because we believe that it’s important to do the following:
Develop a productive workforce.
Create an informed citizenry.
Provide for social mobility.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I’m waiting for someone to make the argument for universal government insurance, after all competition is good.

And by the way Jim, it’s likely that all of your taxes and some paid by others go to fund your childrens education and associated costs.
We do that in this country because we believe that it’s important to do the following:
Develop a productive workforce.
Create an informed citizenry.
Provide for social mobility.

Taxes are like insurance it goes into one big pot. Some of use use more then we put in others never use it..

But you always have some who want theirs back .. crying about fairness ..

Wouldn’t want to be on sinking ship with that crowd . You have 2 choices everyone in the life boats or we are all going down with the ship

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Wouldn’t want to be on sinking ship with that crowd . You have 2 choices everyone in the life boats or we are all going down with the ship

Equity dictates that there really are only 2 choices

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Taxes are like insurance it goes into one big pot. Some of use use more then we put in others never use it..

But you always have some who want theirs back .. crying about fairness ..

Wouldn’t want to be on sinking ship with that crowd . You have 2 choices everyone in the life boats or we are all going down with the ship

catholic schools are way cheaper and far superior

i’d like to offer that benefit to people
who can’t afford it. you’d deny it to them and force them to stay in failing sh*thole schools

I’m pretty comfortable on my side of that argument. you want those people to stay right where they are. i want to get creative to help them out of poverty.

You care more about politics than helping them.

have fun make that wrong.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I’m waiting for someone to make the argument for universal government insurance, after all competition is good.

And by the way Jim, it’s likely that all of your taxes and some paid by others go to fund your childrens education and associated costs.
We do that in this country because we believe that it’s important to do the following:
Develop a productive workforce.
Create an informed citizenry.
Provide for social mobility.

social mobility, eh?

Is social mobility helped, or is it hindered, if more children are in good schools, and fewer children are in lousy schools?’

My town spends $15k to educate each kid. If you give me $2k of that to help me pay for catholic school, the town keeps the other $13k and now has one fewer kid to spend it on. so more spent per kid. That’s good for the kids who stay in public school.

It’s win win. Except for teachers unions, which is the only key reason democrats oppose it.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

social mobility, eh?

Is social mobility helped, or is it hindered, if more children are in good schools, and fewer children are in lousy schools?’It will make the public schools worse off having to give up revenue to subsidize a private school.

My town spends $15k to educate each kid. If you give me $2k of that to help me pay for catholic school , the town keeps the other $13k and now has one fewer kid to spend it on. so more spent per kid. That’s good for the kids who stay in public school. In another post you said you wouldn't benefit. Doesn't the $2K per kid benefit YOU?

It’s win win. Except for teachers unions, which is the only key reason democrats oppose it.100% wrong.

So if 10 out of 2,000 students leave a public school what will get cut?

will a teacher get laid off?
will the heat be lowered?
will the bus routes be changed?

The costs are still the same. There will be 24.2 kids in a class instead of 24.4 - that is it.

All is it does is subsidize you sending your kids to private schools. Most people can't afford the $15K it costs to send their kid to private school regardless of a subside.

Why don't the Catholic HSs take kids with handicaps and educate them instead of leaving them for the public HS?

[Jim in CT]

paul, public schools will give up revenue but what you conveniently left out, is there’s would be fewer kids.

if crappy teachers in crappy schools get laid off, boo boo. better to keep flushing money down the toilet forever?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

paul, public schools will give up revenue but what you conveniently left out, is there’s would be fewer kids.

if crappy teachers in crappy schools get laid off, boo boo. better to keep flushing money down the toilet forever?

I showed you the fixed costs will be the same. 500 kids at a high school in hartford aren't going to go to Xavier bc they get a $2K subsidy.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

social mobility, eh?

Is social mobility helped, or is it hindered, if more children are in good schools, and fewer children are in lousy schools?’

My town spends $15k to educate each kid. If you give me $2k of that to help me pay for catholic school, the town keeps the other $13k and now has one fewer kid to spend it on. so more spent per kid. That’s good for the kids who stay in public school.

It’s win win. Except for teachers unions, which is the only key reason democrats oppose it.

So federal aid to education no longer is per student?

It’s not a winner, in the long term it will decimate public education.

You rant about about student loan forgiveness and then want the rest of us to pay for special education for your kids.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Maybe the private schools will start providing free lunches for all those poor kids from the Hartford schools who will need help paying for lunch since their $ will go to pay private school tuition.

[wdmso]

I posted about Indiana school vouchers

Whites enrolled increased black enrollment decreased

And the majority of peoples kids getting vouchers never stepped foot in a public school


the average tuition at private elementary schools is $7,630, while the average for Catholic elementaries is $4,840. The same is true of high schools, where the average tuition is $16,040 and the average Catholic high school cost is $11,240.

Yep low income and middle income family’s have 50 k to send 3 kids to high school x 4 years

School choice is a scam by republicans. Using school choice for minority’s as their straw man .

Statistics. Don’t back up their claims
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device