Quality control

[CAL]

Stopped in a shop the other day and checked out some plugs by a very well known company (not mentioning names, but we all have them in our bags ). I saw two dannys that had the lip hanging out of the side of the slot by at least 1/4" on one side and 1/4" short of reaching the other side of the slot due to poor through drilling. Saw a popper that had a tail grommet that was actually smaller than the hole drilled in the tail so that it was kinda countersunk. Saw a bottle swimmer that had a huge hunk taken out of one side of the the lip. And this is all just in one shop

Do these people do ANY kind of quality control? Or do they just toss every piece of mangled wood into the market?

[BigBo]

Bet I know the shop and the plug maker. I was in there a couple of days ago and saw just what your speaking of. I was also a little disappointed to see this. You might expect it from a cheaper foreign company, but it's a shame when you see it from a local company that has always had a good reputation go downhill like that. You wouldn't mind so much if they were just a $5-$6 plug, but when you're paying good money, you shouldn't be expected to handpick through the selection to find a good one. Been seeing more and more for a couple of years now.

[Mike P]

"Bottle swimmer" kinda gives away the manufacturer

[capesams]

yep! went over the bridge,,all gone

[JohnR]

I had a pleasant (really, I did) conversation with one of the owners of that company the other day. He was complementing us on how our site has grown. Thought about it but I didn't bring up the "darters in April" thing that his partner did.

I too would like to see the improvements come from that operation (all operations really, especially those with a legacy like that).

[backlash]

i remember buying 2nds off the window in the shop that were better than whats out on the market today.what a shame, i hope they will do something about it.THEY ARE A CLASSIC!

[Steve K]

I have seen many of their poppers with the tail grommet being smaller than than the hole and they all split. I will not buy them online anymore because of this. They have awful QA.

[Mike P]

Originally posted by JohnR
I had a pleasant (really, I did) conversation with one of the owners of that company the other day. He was complementing us on how our site has grown. Thought about it but I didn't bring up the "darters in April" thing that his partner did.

I too would like to see the improvements come from that operation (all operations really, especially those with a legacy like that).

Dennis is always pleasant

[RI Popper]

Well if it is who I'm thinking of, I was very disappointed to hear someone from that company disrespectul of an older gentleman at the NESaltwater show who was building his own wooden plugs and selling them. He said they shouldn't of put him near them and that "No competition with what he's selling" with a *** grin. I felt bad for the older Gent and some stuff shouldn't be said.

[Canalratt1]

Funny I talked to Dennis two years ago at the MSBA show about bringing back his old 5 1/2 oz. pencils. He said he would love to but just couldn't get them made, too many other styles, not enough manpower to make them. He told me check out Brads (Hawg Hunters) and was complemently on them. I have talked to him a few times seems like a nice enough guy.

[BigFish]

Dennis Ryan is a great guy, very nice to deal with and talk to. Always very pleasant. If you guys have concerns, why don't you just send him a polite, well worded letter? Let him know how you feel about the quality of the product that so many of us buy and use?

[RI Popper]

Well I haven't seen the problems you guys have with his quality. I have only seen hi quality stuff and very nice lures. If that's slipping it's a real shame. I just noticed a lapse in manners. But it happens even to the best of people I guess. I'm a direct competitor to Salty, J-Habs, Al Gag, etc... and we all have only the best to say about each other. I have never heard a bad word about anyone from those guys. But I probably wasn't listening Just kidding guys, I alwayse listen to you all. (well I did once) LOL

[BigBo]

BigFish, I did exactly as you suggested earlier today.

[JohnR]

Larry - they read the boards. They know and hear and have a rough idea of their reputation (I hope) in the market. And in the past they've offered to correct problems once bought but that could be avoided or at least significantly reduced before the product rolls out the door

[BigFish]

You get no arguement from me JohnR, I agree whole heartedly. As RIPopper said, I also have not seen problems to the degree discussed earlier in this thread, however, I have had inconsistencies in some of the pencil poppers I have purchased as far as some floating as they should and still others purchased from the same store, same batch, same color, sinking like a stone.

[CAL]

Originally posted by JohnR
but that could be avoided or at least significantly reduced before the product rolls out the door

My point exactly

[BigFish]

I wonder if they do any periodic testing of their plugs in the form of actually proving them in the water?

[CAL]

I didn't want to sound like they don't make good plugs. But I'll never order their stuff online because I want to see what I'm buying first. Too much of a difference in quality from plug to plug.

[UserRemoved1]

I'm going to weigh in with one snippet here......This is NOT bashing anyone cuz I don't do that stuff...

I had probably 50 people make comments on their quality at the RISAA show.....all in the negative. All said the same thing...the lures they make today are nothing like the old company.

That being said where's that guy that makes the broomstick poppers

kidding Armand

[RI Popper]

well Saltypants, to quote one fine gent who used a broomstick popper "Wow, do they catch fish" What was once a broomstick is now a shop vac

[UserRemoved1]

[bassmaster]

Gibbs been around along time.
there needles kick bASS
and ther polaris popper is the balls
so they need a larger loop in there swimmers
and the trolling swimmers are a good plug.
some day they will get it together
But they are the BIGGEST maker of wooden lure
Yeah we was bummin here, would'nt You if they was 5 min from Your House
and I have seen that small white danny they make catch alot of bass.
I will respect Stans legacy
If I lived in RI , I would be all over them for a Job as slave driver

[Flaptail]

Time for me to enlighten you to a few facts. The Gibbs line is the oldest maker of striped bass fishing lures still in existence today. Many have come and gone like Masterlure, Capn' Bills etc, most of those companies not because they wanted to but because the harsh reality is that there is no money in it. The captive audience is small compared to companies that make lures for inland black bass and trout and salmon etc.

Stan and his wife never made money at it, niether did his son John or Jimmy Griecci and niether are the current owners Dennis and Dan. I know for a fact that Dennis and Dan to this day have not taken a penny from it. If you knew the real story behind running a wooden striped bass lure company you would be shocked. Dennis was the driving force in buying the company and persuaded Dan to buy it simply for one reason and a noble reason in my estimation. Dennis did not want to see Gibbs lures go out of business, period. If they did not buy it there were no other takers, it was them or the plug line was gone.

Dennis and Dan had the perfect set up to keep it going. The had a profitable business that makes wooden display cases for showrooms and stores. They had space in the lower floor of thier factory with some of the essential equipment to affect the making of plugs like spraybooths etc.

Thier main business supports the Gibbs line. Except for a phone line into the building where a secretary says Hello, this is Gibbs Lures, everything is supported by the main company and the secretary is actually the main business's secretary.

They know and acknowledge that they would love to have someone come on board and run the show for them. Someone who might be in the business now as a builder of plugs but who is looking to get out and go to work for someone who they can work for and still build plugs. Maybe even merge that persons line into the Gibbs line and produce both out of the Cumberland location. I know of one particular builder in RI that would fit that bill perfectly and it would be the best thing that happened to both his line of plugs and Gibbs in a long time.

Ask any commercial plug builder and they will readily admit that they are working 15 hours a day 7 days a week and can't keep up and money coming in with the seasonal aspect of most tackle shops is always a bloodpressue rising experience.

The markup on plugs is still what kills me most when I hear or read on-line about guys bitching about what a Gibbs plug or any other of the commercially made plugs cost. Do you realize that in the tackle shop business that on rods, reels etc., that the profit margin for the tackle shop owner is set by the manufacturer? It is this way with just about everything except the wooden lures, sinkers and terminal tackle such as swivels, snaps and that sort of thing. You wnat to pay less for your Beachmasters, Gibbs, Habs? Talk to your tackle shop owners. The mark-up on a wooden Striper lure is sometimes 100% or in cases more because the tackle shop owners can and do just that because they need to make a buck and they do it with the Gibbs and such.

I may have just pissed off a bunch of shop owners but I really don't give a #^&#^&#^&#^& cause the truth has to be known, Plug makes like Gibbs and Habs have been getting the bad press and they don't deserve it.

When it come to quality control they readily admit to problems and are endeavouring to fix them, If you have a problem with any plug no matter who makes it return it to them and they all will replace it no questions asked.

Now you know the truth, I don't get paid by anybody to say what I say and I say this because you all need to know what goes in the plug business before you bitch and complain anymore.

[bassmaster]

Originally posted by Flaptail


Plug makes like Gibbs and Habs have been getting the bad press and they don't deserve it.

Well said.............

[JohnR]

I will start this with the same sentence and end with the same sentence: I like their product, have bought many in the past but not as much these days, sincerely hope they improve it and wish them the best of luck.

Flap - having talked at various lengths to a few guys that make lures, I understand nobody is going to build a Squibnocket Mansion off of plug sales. Just isn't in it for the plug maker and odds are won't be. I've also had disscussions with some of these guys about the steps involved from selecting your wood to packaging. And being as consistent as possbile. I've seen the look of dread on ones face as he mentions being ready to turn "a couple thousand needles".

I also know that there is far more I don't know about plug manufacturing that I don't know.

What I do know is that I don't buy the product like I used to 4-5-6-7 years ago because it is not - to me - as consistant as it was before. Maybe I pay more attention to it now being less of a novice. I cringe at buying a $15 plug or more but I still buy them cause they catch. I KNOW that custom wooden plugs are worth the extra dough and sure, plastic catches great - but there is a lot of enjoyment to make wood swim and be succesfull with it. I don't buy them today because of heritage, I buy them 'cause they catch. A heritage of a lure or manufacturer brings people in and when the plugs catch, they keep 'em. If a plug catches - it gets noticed (between the interblab, clubs & periodicals). If a plug manufacturer has issues with QC, that screws with the heritage AND it screws with the CATCH - that gets noticed too. But is it OK to need to buy a bunch of plugs to guarantee you'll get some that catch? Or root thru what's on the wall to make sure they have hooks? Or the wood isn't split? Not asking for perfection here but to eyeball the plug before it gets shipped.

I have seen no plug or lure that is consistently manufactured perfect every single time. But I haven't had a problem with one particular local wood lure manufacturer in a few years - one that checks his product. I'm not going into names HERE as I'm trying to remain neutral on this (yes, there is room for everyone )...

I have no problems with Dennis, its not like we're pals or anything or he invites me to dinner at his casa but I see him once or twice a year and we chat for half an hour. I don't know Dan other than a couple e-mails when we, uhh, "debated" things a few years ago I've had no involvement with the guy. I don't have the knowledge to tell them how to run their business. But I do want them to succeed and make a good product. I want to see my son showing his son or grandson one of these plugs and say how "my dad caught a lot of fish on these and so did his granddad". I want to see this company successful 50 years from know - yeh, 50 years - hope I'm alive and can still fish. But I do want to see them succeed...


Do you still think they are the best wooden lure manufacturer out there? Do you think they are, quality wise in line with their peers? Do you think there is room for reasonable improvement?


Again, I like their product, have bought many in the past but not as much these days, sincerely hope they improve it and wish them the best of luck.

[CAL]

Originally posted by Flaptail






When it come to quality control they readily admit to problems and are endeavouring to fix them, If you have a problem with any plug no matter who makes it return it to them and they all will replace it no questions asked.

Flap, if they know there's problems, don't you think spending a couple seconds looking over each plug could give them a better reputation by pulling the bad ones out instead of sending them out? Seems pretty easy to me. If you look at 70 plugs hanging on a wall and you find half a dozen that are pure crap then that manufacturer is gonna lose the confidence of the public.

I still buy Gibbs and I just got 5 or 6 the other day, but due to the QC problems I refuse to buy them online. I'd rather be able to have them in my hand first.

[bassmaster]

Originally posted by CAL


I still buy Gibbs and I just got 5 or 6 the other day, but due to the QC problems I refuse to buy them online. I'd rather be able to have them in my hand first.

and I understand that and agree with You.
They Need a QC man in there to overlook stuff.
It would Be a shame to loose the co or any other wood co BTW

[JohnR]

Originally posted by bassmaster
and I understand that and agree with You.
They Need a QC man in there to overlook stuff.
It would Be a shame to loose the co or any other wood co BTW

Exactly...

And an as Flap said:

They know and acknowledge that they would love to have someone come on board and run the show for them. Someone who might be in the business now as a builder of plugs but who is looking to get out and go to work for someone who they can work for and still build plugs. Maybe even merge that persons line into the Gibbs line and produce both out of the Cumberland location.

Someone to also do some R&D, QC (hey QC'ing plugs is a helluvan excuse to go "mobile" and bring your office to the beach ). Someone to ensure that the plugs & co are doing what they are supposed to but also someone to inovate and bring out new (to them) stuff. I don't know if Dan does and I'm pretty sure Dennis (admittedly) doesn't have the right bag of tricks to go out and bring new product. This isn't a knock, nut my observation. (Though BM did design a thru wire for their darter a few years back ). Can the company afford financially to bring in another body to do that? Can they afford not to?

This is ROI, takes an awfull lot of plugs to pay for one other person's salary - takes a lot less in bad or questionable plugs to ruin a good thing.

[fishweewee]

Two words.

Super

and...

Strike

That is all

[Mr. Sandman]

Do you think the current Gibbs owners would want to sell outright the entire operation?