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| Sports Talk - Title Town Sports Talk - Our Home for the 2004/2007 World Champion Red Sox, Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX Champion Patriots! SEVENTEEN TIME NBA Champion Boston Celtics, 2011 winners of Lord Stanley's Cup Boston Bruins!!! |
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08-01-2004, 07:48 AM
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#31
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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Some of you may know this, other's may not......but I played professional baseball at a high level for a few years.....when I was in college I remember a scout telling me (and I'll never forgert this) when I asked him what it takes to be drafted....he said, "ability to hit, good arm, good speed, and a good attitude.....not necessarily in that order".
Nomar killed himself here in Boston with his baby attitude......he had the other three things for sure.
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"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-01-2004, 08:36 AM
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#32
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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When you play shortstop, or expect to at a high level, one also needs good hands/soft hands! Nomahhhh does not have great hands for a shortstop and in my opinion his offensive numbers have been on a steady slide! Horrible with men in scoring position and as far as being a smart hitter....Nomahhhh is not! 
Best hitting shortstop.....Ernie Banks (Mr. Cub by the way......no fear Nomahhhh will be earning that monicker)
Best fielding shortstop......Ozzie!  |
Almost time to get our fish on!!! 
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08-01-2004, 10:39 AM
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#33
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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Quote:
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When you play shortstop, or expect to at a high level, one also needs good hands/soft hands
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Scouts never look at defensive skills when scouting an athlete.....the theory is that good defense can be learned....soft hands, proper positioning, etc. can be taught through repetition, and therefore are not considered "natural" abilities..... |
"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-01-2004, 11:49 AM
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#34
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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Sorry HR04, I have to disagree with you on that one......no team can afford to have a shortstop in there who has a decent bat and bad hands....I would rather have an average bat and a good defensive glove in the hole! Just my opinion!
PS-There never have been too many power packed shortstops out there......Aparicio was a fair hitter at best, Banks...well he was in a class by himself! Ozzie...not a great hitter, think his lifetime average was about .260 at best maybe lower.....Yount had some pop and of course had over 3000 hits, about a .310 average I think (I will check those numbers though)
Most shortstops are in the hole for their glove my friend....not the bat and if a team gets both, consider it the exception and not the rule.  |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-01-2004, 06:07 PM
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#35
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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BigFish - you're missing my poiint....OBVIOUSLY every shortstop needs to have soft hands......but NO ONE is drafted for that reason....soft hands can be taught.....soft hands has NOTHING to do with natural abilities.....BTW - I was drafted as a shortstop.
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"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-01-2004, 06:17 PM
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#36
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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You don't believe shortstops are drafted for their ability to hit do you?  I have got the numbers to prove my point if need be but being that short is such a critical position in a teams defense, don't you agree that the ability to field is tops on the list when a scout is observing potential draftees? 
Hitting as I have said would only be a plus as most HOF shortstops barely hit their weight! |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-01-2004, 09:03 PM
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#37
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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No, it's not.
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"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-01-2004, 09:04 PM
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#38
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Jiggin' Leper Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: 61° 30′ 0″ N, 23° 46′ 0″ E
Posts: 8,158
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Defense alone won't get a shortstop to the HOF. Mark Belanger was arguably the best glove at short until Ozzie came along, and he never received serious consideration for the Hall. Same with Larry Bowa, Freddie Patek, Don Kessinger who succeeded Banks as the Cubs' shortstop, and Davey Concepcion of the Big Red Machine. Their offensive numbers weren't good enough to get them to Cooperstown.
Ozzie hit .260 for his career and he could also steal a base, plus he drew walks. He wasn't just a glove.
Which shortstop for the Sox was a better all-around player than Nomar? Rico Petrocelli? He wasn't out there for his glove and range and played more games at third than short over his career. Rick Burleson? Great arm, but not as good a hitter and limited range. Glenn Hoffman? Certainly not Don Buddin or Eddie Brossoud |
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08-01-2004, 09:06 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whitman,Ma.
Posts: 4,263
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Show us the #'s BF..
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I'm going where I'm going... 
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08-01-2004, 09:09 PM
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#40
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Afterhours Custom Plugs
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: R.I.
Posts: 8,642
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oh jeeez skd, prepare for the onslaught!
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08-01-2004, 09:12 PM
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#41
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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HR04 and especially MikeP....I gotta start smokin' some of the stuff you guys are smokin'.....cause Defense is all that got any shortstops with the only exception of Ernie Banks into the hall of fame!!!!  Ozzie hit .262 lifetime and you are telling me it was not his glove that got him into the hall????? How many .262 hitters are in the hall of fame guys????? Guaranteed the only ones in there have over 500 homers!!!! I have looked at the numbers for the other hall of fame shortstops guys......and they are all defensive oriented players who hit less than .260......oooooppppssss sorry I forgot Yount and he played the last 6 or 7 years at first base and in the outfield! Check the stats guys on the hall of fame shortstops and then come talk to me.......cause you ain't makin' any sense. There are only 5 or 6 modern day shortstops in the hall and only about ten all together......modern day are Lou Boudreau, Ernie Banks, Pee Wee Reese, Aparicio, Banks, Smith and Yount!!!! I have done my homework guys......check it out!  |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-01-2004, 09:12 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whitman,Ma.
Posts: 4,263
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I'm going where I'm going...
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08-01-2004, 09:13 PM
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#43
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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Plus...."He drew walks"?????? Is that a new criteria for shortstops to get into the hall of fame?  |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-01-2004, 09:14 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whitman,Ma.
Posts: 4,263
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I'm going where I'm going...
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08-01-2004, 09:14 PM
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#45
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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The onslaught has begun.....now duck!  |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-01-2004, 09:18 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whitman,Ma.
Posts: 4,263
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When I coached Little League a walk was as goog as a hit..
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I'm going where I'm going...
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08-01-2004, 09:22 PM
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#47
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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Lets see....where is my hall of fame book???? I know there was a guy that got election to the hall of fame based solely on the fact that he walked.....well I know it is in there somewhere! 
CAUTION-Sarcasm can become addictive when taken in large doses. Do not take sarcasm on an empty stomach!  |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-01-2004, 09:23 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whitman,Ma.
Posts: 4,263
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I just ate..No empty stomach here
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I'm going where I'm going...
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08-01-2004, 09:32 PM
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#49
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Hardcore Equipment Tester
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Abington, MA
Posts: 6,234
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Remdog was saying on the air today that Nomar asked Francona this week for a week off to recoup. Nomar was also quoted by teamates as saying he wanted to be on the DL for August so he could be ready for September. Larry Luchino called him up the other day, to let him know he was being shopped to the Cubs, and he asked him how he felt. Nomar's reply was that he was great. He has been an unhappy sandbagger, probably part of the reason the team has had a bad funk lately. GOOD RIDDENCE.
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Bent Rods and Screaming Reels!
Spot NAZI
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08-01-2004, 09:35 PM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whitman,Ma.
Posts: 4,263
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That applies to his attitude ,which sucked...I agree, but not to his ability
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I'm going where I'm going...
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08-02-2004, 06:16 AM
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#51
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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Oh yee of too much faith! |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-02-2004, 06:55 AM
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#52
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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Man, you guys must have flunked out of school.....not a single one of you can read....so I will only say this one more time......NO ONE IS EVER DRAFTED BECAUSE OF THEIR DEFENSIVE SKILLS. DEFENSE CAN BE TAUGHT. SO SCOUTS DO NOT CONSIDER IT WHEN EVALUATING TALENT. SURE, IN ORDER TO STAY IN THE BIG LEAGUES YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY DEFENSE (NO KIDDING), BUT IT IS NOT A PREREQUISITE TO BEING DRAFTED.
Was that plain enough english for you?
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"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-02-2004, 07:09 AM
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#53
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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I would like to meet just one scout that would agree with you on that one HR04.......do you by any chance scout for the Sox? They are constantly drafting players with no talent!
Then if the scouts do not evaluate a player for their talent..... .....then what the heck do they bother looking at them for???? To see how good they look in tight pants??? 
If defense can be taught as you say, then why are there so many terrible defensive players in the Major leagues??? (Other than the fact that the player knows how to swing a bat?)
Players must have some degree of talent to "be" drafted or even be eligible HR04......are you telling me that you were drafted simply because you had "no" talent or because you "had" talent? |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-02-2004, 07:11 AM
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#54
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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By the way....when you say you played baseball at a "high" level....what exactly does that mean? Semi-pro....College.....or did you play in the minors at some level? |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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08-02-2004, 09:05 AM
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#55
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Which Way Did They Go
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Blackstone, MA
Posts: 1,147
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I ended up playing Triple A for two seasons.....
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"You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give"
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08-02-2004, 10:07 AM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: medfa,mass
Posts: 976
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nomar's got hands of stone or has lately anyway. hes hit well(above 300) but in the clutch.......eww......his attitude sucked cabrera is a great glove as is pokey derek lowe will benefit much from this trade. no more booted double play balls that end up costing him 3 runs in an inning *dodges the onslaught* |
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08-02-2004, 10:19 AM
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#57
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Afterhours Custom Plugs
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: R.I.
Posts: 8,642
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Surfcastinglife
*dodges the onslaught*
don't know about that.... |
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08-02-2004, 11:25 AM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: medfa,mass
Posts: 976
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haha i dont think its possible to dodge the coming onslaught  |
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08-02-2004, 12:27 PM
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#59
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,203
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Good Luck to Nomahhh!!!
I always liked the guy and, Granted this year he has been a whiner, But he always worked hard for the team. It seems he had a bad playoff last year and all of a sudden people wanted to run him out of town on a rail.
Here some stats on the guy
2 time Batting Champ and finished in the top ten two other times
5 times top 10 in MVP voting
6 times top 10 in hits including last season
4 times top 10 in total bases
4 times top 10 in doubles
3 times top 10 in triples including last season
6 times top 10 in Extra base hits including last season
He was a career .323 Post Season hitter with a career Post Season slugging percentage of .625.
So you may agree w/ the trade (i do, I mean at least we got someting before he walked) but don't make it seem like the guy did nothing but screw us over for the past 9 years. Since he's been here we've been enjoying some pretty good baseball.......its not his fault for the past 86 years...
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08-02-2004, 12:44 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Desolation Row
Posts: 461
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BF: I think what HR04 meant to say is that he was high when he played baseball.  |
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