dog woes

[Mr. Sandman]

I just ordered an electric training collar from cabelas. My dog generally is pretty good but when she gets worked up or a wif of something....she bolts full throttle! And there is little you can do to get here attn. It happenend again yesterday and she came back covered in several different species of animal crap. I am hoping the reality of a large static charge will do get her attn or kill her...one or the other.

Have any of you guys used one of these things?

[reelecstasy]

SM, I have used one and own a few and have used them with with some sucess, I have been a dog trainer on the side for the better of 10 yrs now. I prefer using cinch collar (choker) and have had great success. I do like the remote training collars as well and most have variable intensity settings on them ..I am sure the collar will come with some type of handout. But just start out with as low as a setting possible and increase to it has an effect. It is nice having the ability to enforce a command from a distance ,I just find it unrealistic to expect a dog to obey a command if they aren't dead on balls perfect on a leash..But,who says I know anything?? like I said, I prefer training a dog on a 6' leather leash and a fine linked chain choker..
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Hey, I think that was one of my first posts that actually had any type of real information...not bad 387 posts later

[Mr. Sandman]

I use a choker (one with the claws that dig in when yanked)
I have a standard choke chain too and ithad limited effect. My wife took here to a puppy class here and the dog trainer said...here, you need this because the choker wasn't doing it. For my previous dog, the choker was all she needed. Actually I do like this claw chain better, it sounds mean but I think its more effective, releases better and puts less stress on her neck and she is now pretty good (not perfect but good) on a leash. It is when she is off the leash outside that it is a problem.

I want her to be off the leash most of the time. My old dog would come and obey commands at any distance but this animal is like a unbroken horse off the leash. Put the leash on and she stays at your side.

I let her run on the beach this time of year to burn off some steam but around the yard I need distance control.

Yes the unit has 10 level settings for pain and is waterproof (another plus) I told my wife she either listens to me all the time no matter what or she is history. And I am not kidding. The next step is a boarding school, then up for adoption....just like I tell my kids.

After re-reading your post perhaps I need to get her dead on balls perfect on the leash....we are not there yet.

[Crafty Angler]

Mr. Sandman -

We have used the Innotek collar with a lot of success - but it takes a while and is best done in conjunction with a trainer so your dog will understand what is expected of him with the corrections.

We lost our last Golden who did pet therapy with my wife at nursing homes after exhausting every option with him at Angell Memorial/Tufts - we were heart-broken and we decided to rescue a Golden who was only 9 mos old and had some serious behavioral problems - and after a week I very nearly returned him because he was unmanageable and hostile/aggressive. But when I realized it was because he had been both neglected AND abused I didn't want to give up on him. He was hand-shy (which immediately told me he'd been struck by his previous owners) and bared his teeth when given commands which he knew - and he didn't really want to be touched or petted very much.

Ya know, to this day I'd love to run into the SOB that did that to him because I'd put him square on his ass in pretty short order to see how he'd like to have the tables turned. I've never believed in striking an animal to train it - it's not necessary.

I've had Goldens for 30 years and had never seen anything like it - he was extremely bright and a big husky male who would have been a terrific field dog, but the former owners had treated him so badly he had little trust - or love - for people as a result.

I read a lot of books on behavioral problems - most notably Dr. Nicholas Dodman's 'Dogs Behaving Badly' on understanding and curing problems (he practices at Tufts) which might help you. In my case I finally spent a grand on a trainer who trains police dogs and part of the training was with the Innotek collar which is used mostly for training hunting dogs. It works well, there are 4 levels of correction you can use on the remote with a corresponding buzz on the collar - anyway, it worked for us and without it old Admiral Halsey's future may have been grim if I'd returned him. Our vet said few if any would have stuck by him the way we did. He's now pretty much just a goofy, lovable wingnut (like most Goldens) and a big part of the family. But it sure wasn't easy.

Also, remeber the age of your pup and her breed may also be extenuating circumstances - if it's a big breed don't forget that it may take 2 years for them to fully mature mentally and that may be part of it. Does she exhibit any other negative behaviors? That may be part of it too - and I'd sure pick up the Dodman book - if you can't find it I'll be happy to send you mine if you PM me your address - that's just a way past due 'thanks' for the great Cuttyhunk article you sent me earlier this year -

Anyway, good luck! Let me know how you make out -

[Mr. Sandman]

Thanks for your feedback..She is a golden too. (10 months.)
I have had one golden before her and various spanials before them. I love goldens and she will be a great dog...but she has to know what the rules are.
The previous dog took over a year but was a wonderful pet, very gentle. This dog still has lot of pup in her but she is pretty big already.

Here is a photo of the beast!

[Surfcastinglife]

always wanted a golden :P

[Crafty Angler]

Good looking girl you've got there, Sandman - and yup, 10 mo. old Golden says it all -

I have to tell ya it's what I thought for some reason -

She looks exactly like my 5 year old male - same coloration and shape of the head, etc - it's what we call champage colored Goldens and they most always seem to have the same square features and rugged frame as opposed to the rust colored ones - hey, regardless they're the best!

DZ's also got a great female Golden who's now 1 1/2 or so and every once in a while he and his wife have questions for me - DZ and his missus have been calling me the 'Dog Whisperer' lately

Anyway, don't worry, she'll snap out of it when the light bulb goes on - which is gonna take another year or so - no kidding, but she'll just mature into it. They do take a while to develop.

BUt I'd still recommend picking up Dodson's book - it has a great section on Obedience and will help -

I'll post some shots of my guys a little later - including our most recent 'wingnut' -

Best of luck with her Sandman - she's a beauty

[Crafty Angler]

Here are some photos of our guys - two of the very best, both now sadly gone -

The 'old guy' Muff was 13 years old in this old Kodachrome - he lived to be 17, the Little Big Man of Goldens - and Dewey, the pup, was just 13 weeks old.

[Crafty Angler]

And this is Halsey, a rescued Golden and our current 'wing-nut' who will be five years old a week from today - he was 9 1/2 mos. old when we got him - so we know what it's like!

[Roop]

All great advice here, you might want to check out some of the Gun Dog sites for some additional info.

I had a GSP that liked to run deer, what a pain in the @$$ when you're grouse hunting....

My only suggestion is to use the long cord & a choke to train her to "whoa" and use the shock as an enforcer for off lead training.

[Vectorfisher]

Sandman start in the house and get total control, no running, no door barging, lay down away from the table, no jumping, etc etc start out with very short sessions of full obedience and then crate the dog, work at it until you get absolute perfection and then get outdoors for short duration sessions and work up from there. I would not reccomend a newbie use an electric collar you don't know what kind of reaction you are going to get you could do more harm than good, the dog needs to know exactly why it is getting a correction, and how he can avoid the correction otherwise you run the risk of making your dog think a blade of grass shocked him or even worse one of the kids being nearby and out of fear the dog reacting in a way you cannot control. I could write a book on this stuff so if you got a question drop a line.

[Roger]

Sandman, Beautiful dog you've got there.
I agree with reelecstasy and Vectorfisher on all counts. Especially the parts about using a choke chain (which does not choke if used correclty) and training in the house (btw, that includes using the choke collar/leash in the house too)

Training takes time and is progressive. It starts with fun and games inside, basic command sets, behavior modification, progresses to outside on a leash, then longer leads. There are no shortcuts to a well behaved dog. But they are worth the effort.

Electric training collars can be very efffective in the right hands, and they can backfire if used incorrectly. I don't think an electric collar is right for a ten month old dog. It'll be good later for some long distance field work though.

FWIW, I've found those pinch collars to make training more difficult than the standard "choke chain." If you'd like to come by with your pup, I can show you how simple it is. You'll scratch your head and say, "Is that all there is to it? It's simple."

Good luck with her.

["uffah!!"]

Those are beautiful dogs, Here's the BEAST!!

[Mr. Sandman]

Yikes!... I bet he has a name like BLADE or Rambo .

[MrsSFrances]

heres one of our boneheads...fierce? i think not...lol

[MrsSFrances]

and this is our other bonehead, he's the killer, got a possum and a skunk, and a ground hog...and almost the nieghbors cat


he is always escaping from the yard, he going hunting...lol...

cant you just see the shame on his face....

["uffah!!"]

His name is Rottey, he eats possums,wood chucks, rabbits, and anything else he can catch. He never has to worry about being hungry,and he don't like dog food.

[Mr. Sandman]

Crafty,

I am having some very good results with this electric training collar. There was a tape and a little book that came with the unit that had some good tips. But when she is far away and I call her and she looks but doesn't come...then goes about her own business...a quick press of the "Nic" button just as she thinks "screw him" gets her attn and she starts heading back my way.
There is a positive vibration mode and she has associated the vib with doing the right thing now and there is usually a snack when she comes back. When she starts comming back pressing the vib, generally gets here running back toward you.

Like I said, when she was nearby or in the back yard, it really is not needed but when she is a long ways away and I call her and she thinks...outa-sight-outa-mind and bolts...this does the trick.

Where I live there are a lot of places for her to explore (swamps and woods) and when she get her nose into something interesting and is .25+ mile away from you, you tend to become less significant. This seems to do the trick for the distance problems.
The unit I got was for training field dogs is compact and is waterproof (a must for me) and has a 500 yard range and it really seems to work at 500 yards too. No spam but this is the unit I purchased:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...results1.jhtml

[Nebe]

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
There is a positive vibration mode and she has associated the vib with doing the right thing now and there is usually a snack when she comes back.

It doesnt play Bob Marley does it??

[bart]

i know exactly what you're going through. my golden is the same exact way.......and he's 8!!! he bolts every chance he gets.

when he was younger we took him to two obedience schools and he failed both times. one of the ladies said he was very pain tolerant

he was running around outside with me in the snow today without his leash on. the 4 ft walls of snow confined him to the yard so he couldn't take off. goldens love the snow

[Katie]

I get what your saying to.. our dog mel, just turned 4 and he has already taken a few run for its down to the beach and not coming back.. but eventually we find him.. every chance he gets he's gone in a flash..

[Crafty Angler]

Followed your link to Cabela's, Sandman - nice unit, looks like the next generation version of what we have - glad to hear it works for you! My point was to use it for stimulation/vibration not pain...sounds like you've found the answer.

After 30 years of owning Goldens I think I'm just resigned to the fact that they all have ADHD in their make-up to an extent - they were bred to be upland game dogs, so I imagine that may have been intentional as a desirable trait, that high prey-drive that sends them off like a rocket on a mission - regardless of how we feel about it

They're just such lovable goofy critters they get forgiven for it, I suppose....time after time after time after time....

[Raven]

in my opinion ...you can't teach a dog anything unless you have established eye contact.... otherwise they are in their own world.

first thing you do... is standem up in a corner of a room

to learn sit up....so they see you ... eye to eye.....
and wave that SMALL piece of meat back and forth, back and forth ...so they watch you.... whether its a reward or a tennis ball... the best teaching tool there is...
because you can stuff it with meat....

when you leash train them you have a 6-8 foot leash and you keep them on your left side.... tight to your side with just 2 feet of leash hanging down and the rest coiled up.... always !... and when they take their eyes off "you" while walking to wander and or to go sniff , explore whatever you take a quick right turn dropping your (leash) slack and march with a firm grip....(on that leash) never looking back in a new direction.

you do this until they get SICK of getting yanked around everytime they take their eyes off of you and what direction your heading.... and you never uttter a word....be completely silent....no chirps, whistles, nothing.
soon you can do squares.... or triangles and they will
follow your every turn knowing if they don't ... they get yanked hard....and i'm not talking about a tug on the leash. i mean a full spun in a new direction for not paying attention: BIG YANK.... they'll learn better that way.....

givem treats - when they do it right with much praise.

ive trained many dogs with this method...which i agree is controversial but it works great.