Penn cleans house

[steelhead]

Trying to survive... It's a dog eat dog world out there. Whether we like it or not, China's where it's at til further notice. Sadly, we're gutting our own work force in the process.

[mikecc]

Penn's first problem is they are out of touch with the consumer.
They IMO just placed the nail in the coffin.
Once again they have underestimated the consumer.
In the past when Penn was top of the line reels they refused address the problem issues with their reels. When they did respond it was out of desperation because of lost market share. How many years of the consumer telling them that Penn’s bails flip does it take for them to listen? Well apparently they still do not get it because we are going on 20 years and nothing has been done other than telling the consumer they have the reel handle in the wrong position while casting.
They addressed the issues on the 5500SS and after 3 changes and 15 years they still did not get it right. So they discontinue the reel and come out with a new version called the SSg .
Well lets talk about their newest.
It finally got a infinite Anti-Reverse. All other companies have had it for over 5 years. Even on their cheapest $20 reels! They have not addressed the spool taper. And with every one running braid today they did not even put an oversized line roller on the series of reels. So their newest reel is already outdated.

If Penn would just listen.
For at least 4 years I have committed to a large quaint of reels. I call it the improved 704 /706
Give me this reel with a infinite Anti-Reverse , newer improved Bail spring ,drilled out rotor like a VS, Anodized finish not painted, oversized Line Roller Bearing. Does not have to be sealed .Hell with only 3 moving internal parts a kid could clean it in 5 min.
They could sell this reel in the $200 range
What does Penn do??
They move a problem reel that most guys were on the edge of using to a fixed rediculious price
From $85 to $129. and move its production overseas. Thus guaranteeing it’s extension.

The only way people are going to go back to Penn is if they get the same reel as they have been getting for 10 years and drop the price to $50 in level with all the other imported reels.
There is no reason for the consumer to support Penn now that they have moved their spinning reels overseas.

The steps that should have been taken are .
Clean house starting with the Management and then moving to the design and research and development. Replace them with a new team that will directly listen to the consumer and address the issues with their reels. And most of all remain in the USA

[spence]

Mike, don't hold back...please tell us what you're thinking

As someone who was just shopping for a new reel I couldn't agree more. There are very few options available for the surfcaster, and the one diehard has recently sold it's soul.

-spence

[mikecc]

I would but this is a family board
But then what do I know been only listening the the consumer complain over their reels fro 20 years.

[beachwalker]

mike,

three four years ago penn sends two prototype slammers to Bill Pew (Fishers) out here. I bet you got a couple or more.

Bill gives the medium one to me (which would become the 460) and the smaller one to Captain Tom M. and tells both of us to NEVER rinse and give it back in November.

The friggin thing was the greatest reel I had ever used and worked perfectly all season. I dunked, sanded it, puked on it and it still worked great. It broke my heart to give it back but the season was over.

So the next year I buy the 360, 460 and they are so so. The drag is good, if you maintain it but the components overall work so so.

I wish I had that proto still it was the best reel ever. number 80 hand inked on it....

[mikecc]

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

[PurpelNoon]

I remember as a kid(not too long ago) when items were all made in Japan and that was considered cheap/low quality. Things have changed with Japanese products since then. Resume now with China, but a big problem with China is that they do not respect any type of patents. They have hundreds and hundreds of law suits against companies that replicate cars, and other products. Worse yet, is that the Chinese government has done nothing about all of this.

When I have the chance to buy similar products, whether made in USA or another country and China, even if I have to pay more, I will always buy the American or other country's part. China's tactics are a disgrace!

[Nebe]

I have to agree, if Penn made a better version of the 704 or 6 that was priced around 200 or 250 bucks, VS would be in big trouble. annodized, sealed drag... i'd buy one.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by mikecc

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

then they really do suck.

i came through your shop once a couple of years ago. it was impressive. incredible looking rods, great conversation going on (I must have hit a lucky moment ) everything organized. all the good stuff....

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

[mikecc]

Originally Posted by mikecc

Penn's first problem is they are out of touch with the consumer.
They IMO just placed the nail in the coffin.
Once again they have underestimated the consumer.
In the past when Penn was top of the line reels they refused address the problem issues with their reels. When they did respond it was out of desperation because of lost market share. How many years of the consumer telling them that Penn’s bails flip does it take for them to listen? Well apparently they still do not get it because we are going on 20 years and nothing has been done other than telling the consumer they have the reel handle in the wrong position while casting.
They addressed the issues on the 5500SS and after 3 changes and 15 years they still did not get it right. So they discontinue the reel and come out with a new version called the SSg .
Well lets talk about their newest.
It finally got a infinite Anti-Reverse. All other companies have had it for over 5 years. Even on their cheapest $20 reels! They have not addressed the spool taper. And with every one running braid today they did not even put an oversized line roller on the series of reels. So their newest reel is already outdated.

If Penn would just listen.
For at least 4 years I have committed to a large quaint of reels. I call it the improved 704 /706
Give me this reel with a infinite Anti-Reverse , newer improved Bail spring ,drilled out rotor like a VS, Anodized finish not painted, oversized Line Roller Bearing. Does not have to be sealed .Hell with only 3 moving internal parts a kid could clean it in 5 min.
They could sell this reel in the $200 range
What does Penn do??
They move a problem reel that most guys were on the edge of using to a fixed rediculious price
From $85 to $129. and move its production overseas. Thus guaranteeing it’s extension.

The only way people are going to go back to Penn is if they get the same reel as they have been getting for 10 years and drop the price to $50 in level with all the other imported reels.
There is no reason for the consumer to support Penn now that they have moved their spinning reels overseas.

The steps that should have been taken are .
Clean house starting with the Management and then moving to the design and research and development. Replace them with a new team that will directly listen to the consumer and address the issues with their reels. And most of all remain in the USA

..

[Karl F]

Brent, welcome, and somehow I knew Mike would be the first to respond... oh yeah, make Mike a Penn dealer again I saw you wanted to address relationships with Dealers, as well.....

[mikecc]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Brent, welcome, and somehow I knew Mike would be the first to respond... oh yeah, make Mike a Penn dealer again I saw you wanted to address relationships with Dealers, as well.....

I am still a dealer .Just not a very happy one.

BK Hope you dont mind keeping this in public I have nothing to hide.

I love Penn ,just wish they would take their heads out of their.
I would never again use a penn spinning reel after past problems. I sell them to people who demand them which is fewer and fewer each year.After we are out of the US made spinning reels we will most likely drop all spinning reels by penn. There is to much out there better quality for the money.
Their Boat reels are now starting to take a hit, but they still remain on top

[JohnR]

Brent - Welcome to S-B...

I do not know what kind of influence, if any, that you may have in the upper workings of Penn. I truly hope you have some. As "Advertising & Communication Mgr" I'm willing to guess that you have been either tasked with trying to curb some of the disenchantment on the street or are taking it upon yourself to do that. If you have any true power beyond that, just maybe Penn has a chance.

Penn is in Deep Kimshe right now – certainly in the eyes of the former faithful and likely on the balance sheet as well. Perhaps your big water International reels are still top dog in their market segment but the products sought after and purchased by the Average Joe are no longer very sought after and less likely to be purchased. Up and down the coast, Penn probably owned 75% of the market, coffee grinders grinding….

Penn has languished in innovation and thoroughly embarrassed itself in product quality. Simple issues that have gone on for years like flipping bails and tiny line rollers have been ignored by the old ownership and apparently skipped by the new ownership.

Now that you are moving spinning reel production over to the shoe factory nation, what POSSIBLE incentive remains for us to purchase a Penn reel? The first reel I ever bought with my own money was a Penn. I have Penn reels my grandfather fished in the 50’s surf and bigger game. I have purchased numerous Penn reels over the years but it looks like my 975 from last year will be my last Penn unless something drastic happens at your company.

Issues with Penn:

Little innovation, Cannot even incorporate best practices developed by other companies (larger line rollers anyone?, Anti-Reverse?? Come on, this is bush league stuff guys)

Overseas production

Introduction of CRAP product

Ridiculously stupid Gold Label Dealer program

Re-badging of other crap product, Roddy Reels? Junk. Walmart JUNK. Actually Walmart might even pass on that stuff.

I am really not trying to be negative here but I can honestly NOT think of anything positive to say about Penn Reels or from Penn Reels over the past few years. There was mild hope with the Slammers but even those fell short. It is disappointing to see how bad Penn Reels is operating as a company, frustrating, disappointing, and suffering from a complete disconnect for it’s user base. We as a community WANT Penn to succeed and not need to stumble into the crap on this post but it is up to Penn to produce the World Class Reels that they falsely claim, and it is up to Penn to lead the American Reel market. Right now, you guys are not doing it.

I hope you can at least stay with this thread as you replied here.

Sincerely,

John

Chief Cook & Bottle Washer

www.Striped-Bass.com

[Nebe]

for what its worth, i have a slammer and absolutely love it.

[BK From Penn]

Originally Posted by mikecc

I am still a dealer .Just not a very happy one.

BK Hope you dont mind keeping this in public I have nothing to hide.

I love Penn ,just wish they would take their heads out of their.
I would never again use a penn spinning reel after past problems. I sell them to people who demand them which is fewer and fewer each year.After we are out of the US made spinning reels we will most likely drop all spinning reels by penn. There is to much out there better quality for the money.
Their Boat reels are now starting to take a hit, but they still remain on top

TO address the Spinning Reel issue, the SPinfisher SS reels (graphite bodies) were addressed, reevalauated, and tweaked, and revisted, and so an and so forth. What happened was the new management was tired of the band-aids being applied, and even more tired of the headaches...we needed a Spinfisher SS that works; result, the SSg that features 5 bb + one-way roller (anything more in a spinning reel is marketing, not performance related). Unfortunately, things do not happen overnight; but it takes time to design, build, test, tweak, test again and manufacture.

THe SSg is balanced, smooth, and is genuinely a nice spinning reel. THat being said, its update was about 10 years overdo. The one thing I quickly learned when I first came aboard Penn two years ago, was how the past always haunts you. THe problems everyone is experiencing with their SS spinning reels are well known, and we have listened and adapted. THis was the new management acting when they improved upon the reel, not the old management.

If you want to sell your customers a great reel, try the Penn Slammer. The Slammers are one of the finest spinning reels on the market. Take a look at the drag (under the spool for those not familiar with the reel), and you will find that largest drag surface on just about any spinning reel. As far as being built, the Slammer is constructed for trophy fish; oversized main shaft to reduce the chance for a big cow to bend the shaft when the spool is extended, all metal construction (no body flex under severe loads), and 5+1 marine grade-stainless steel ball bearings. MikeCC, if you will never fish with a Penn spinning reel again, than I do feel bad for you as the Slammer is one of the nicest fishing reels around. And yes, I have fished with just about everything out there (Stella, Sustain, VS, Daiwa).

As far as where the reels are built, if the new SSg reels are able to stand on their own against foreign competitors, than why would the argument not to sell or buy Penn based on the fact that they are not made in the US be valid? Aren't our competitors all foreign companies?? There are no more US spinning reel companies left. Penn was the last to manufacture, or at least in any quantity, spinning reels in the US. If Penn is still a US company (don't worry, we still are) and you are arguing for made in the US, than why favor foreign competitors? I do not understand.

Best regards,
Brent

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by BK From Penn

If you want to sell your customers a great reel, try the Penn Slammer. The Slammers are one of the finest spinning reels on the market. Take a look at the drag (under the spool for those not familiar with the reel), and you will find that largest drag surface on just about any spinning reel. As far as being built, the Slammer is constructed for trophy fish; oversized main shaft to reduce the chance for a big cow to bend the shaft when the spool is extended, all metal construction (no body flex under severe loads), and 5+1 marine grade-stainless steel ball bearings.

MikeCC, if you will never fish with a Penn spinning reel again, than I do feel bad for you as the Slammer is one of the nicest fishing reels around. And yes, I have fished with just about everything out there (Stella, Sustain, VS, Daiwa).


Best regards,
Brent

He sold me one last summer. My wife chose a Stradic 8000. When both reels are side by side, there's no way you're ever gonna convince me the Slammer is a better reel than the Stradic. Bearing in mind that I'm a Penn loyalist, or used to be. If you're seriously comparing them to the Stella or Saltiga, your credibility just went the way of the Titanic

Also, for a roller bearing anti-reverse, there's just enought back-slap there to be an annoyance. Same with the SSgs I've picked up and turned.