Penn cleans house - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

mikecc · 04-03-2005, 09:10 PM

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

PurpelNoon · 04-03-2005, 09:14 PM

I remember as a kid(not too long ago) when items were all made in Japan and that was considered cheap/low quality. Things have changed with Japanese products since then. Resume now with China, but a big problem with China is that they do not respect any type of patents. They have hundreds and hundreds of law suits against companies that replicate cars, and other products. Worse yet, is that the Chinese government has done nothing about all of this.

When I have the chance to buy similar products, whether made in USA or another country and China, even if I have to pay more, I will always buy the American or other country's part. China's tactics are a disgrace!

Nebe · 04-03-2005, 09:20 PM

I have to agree, if Penn made a better version of the 704 or 6 that was priced around 200 or 250 bucks, VS would be in big trouble. annodized, sealed drag... i'd buy one.

Pete_G · 04-04-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eben

I have to agree, if Penn made a better version of the 704 or 6 that was priced around 200 or 250 bucks, VS would be in big trouble. annodized, sealed drag... i'd buy one.

The only flaw with this is that VS already tried it. US built, US assembled, built like we want it to be (not counting an easy way to get inside) and look where it got them. Starting from day 1 it's apparently never exactly worked, at least in terms of the company making money. I guess Penn could learn from the mistakes and give it a try, but there is already a business model out there for built to last, built in the US reels and it's not encouraging.

In the past I've had several engineers stop by the shop, look at the VS, and be surprised they sold for what they did a few years ago. Which makes sense considering the company ended up being bought by Bradley Company. It's just an expensive reel to make, there's no way around it.

Lastly, not listening to customers is a reminder that the surf casting community; especially hard core surf casters, is a very small group. Many of the products we use weren't built with surf fishing in mind, they just happen to work there. I doubt the Saltiga was built with the surf in mind but it apprently works there. Support those who DO listen. Besides VS there aren't many reel makers, but Aquaskinz and your local plug builders certainly do.

beachwalker · 04-04-2005, 08:20 PM

yep, well said

capecodder · 04-06-2005, 09:10 AM

So what is my alternative to a Penn Senator for wire line??? I have switched on the spinning side to shimano due to many of the poor quality/feature issues with Penn, but what about for wire??

ProfessorM · 04-06-2005, 10:20 AM

For wire or for trolling I feel Penn is still the way to go. Simple and effective reels. I am not sure if any other manufacture's offer a stainless, or chromed cast bronze spool. Aluminum spools just don't hold up to wire or leadcore for that matter, corrosion. I still like the old Penns before they went to the plastic bodies. There are millions out there. I have asked many times why they do not make anymore bronze spools for any of their reels, jigmaster, 112H, etc. except for the 113HSP. I guess they just want to sell you a new spool every year. I buy all my Penns on E-Bay and then have the old corroded spools stripped and chromed. All replacment parts are still readily available. Good as new. Paul

basswipe · 04-06-2005, 07:47 PM

I said this once before if Shimano offered the Stradic with a waterproof drag and a sealed housing for under $250 they'd be the balls.Will they do it...probably
not knowing that the hardcore surf guy will pay huge dollars for a VS.

Until then I'll to stick with my Spheros and 704z.Or possibly an Okuma VS reel depending on how well IT works out.

beachwalker · 04-03-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecc

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

then they really do suck.

i came through your shop once a couple of years ago. it was impressive. incredible looking rods, great conversation going on (I must have hit a lucky moment

) everything organized. all the good stuff....

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

lurch · 04-03-2005, 10:02 PM

sorry guys but if a quality reel comes from overseas I will buy it. However, if there is a quality reel within the same price range as the overseas reel I will buy the american reel.

i hope Penn is seeing this post from Mikecc!! Let it rip big fella!!!

rwilhelm · 04-04-2005, 08:26 AM

Is Penn changing the design on the 704Z and 706Z? I went to their website and they have the 706Z weighing at 25.5 ozs and the gear ratio at 4.6. I remember the weight being 21 ozs and I think the gear ratio was 3.7 or 3.8. They have the 704Z listed at 22 ozs, before the 704Z was heavier than the 706Z?

PurpelNoon · 04-04-2005, 08:48 AM

I noticed the same thing. Maybe if we are lucky they will improve the anti-reverse and limit all that play.

bcaron · 04-04-2005, 10:26 AM

After a lot of research and shopping around (and around and around) I went with Shimano. Hard to beat the features and quality for the price. And it was on SALE, something I never saw from Penn. I looked long and hard at the Penns, believe me, I wanted one. But I couldn't justify the cost vs. value for my hard earned green. You're right- they did it to themselves. Another example of arrogant management not listening to anybody. I'm sure some of the people at Penn have been trying to tell their bosses for years what the score is. Same problem where I work. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't necessarily Chinese business practices, its poor American leadership in the manufacturing sector.

PurpelNoon · 04-04-2005, 10:32 AM

I agree with you in that if Penn could just "update" the 704 and 706 to improve things such as the line roller(706) and the significant handle play, I would have no need to buy a VS, Saltiga or any other reel for that matter. But, they choose not to embrace change nor listen to their customers, the anglers. Sure I still use my Penns, but I like the fact that other companies who DO listen to the customer, and they will get my business.

Swimmer · 04-04-2005, 11:16 AM

As usual MikeCC fills us in on all the pertinent inside guff with a manufacturer. That is one of the things that make this list what it is. Where else after reading and listeneing too our buddies could we go to get this information and make an informed decision? No where. Mike has told us many things about Penn before but today we learn some more.

I sent a Penn 9500 back for premature bail floppage and when I called the factory to check someone in the office wanted to know how much or long I have been fishing. I supposed that is a fair question though in retrospect. The direct cause of all of the manufacturing and replacement parts coming out of China no doubt is managements confusion over how important the consumer and retailer opinon is.

Just remember the NAFTA bill was signed into legislation by Bill, spread the wealth, Clinton, not Goerge %$%$%$%$. NAFTA accelerated the rush to outsource like nothing else ever.

Pete F. · 04-04-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcaron

Another example of arrogant management not listening to anybody. I'm sure some of the people at Penn have been trying to tell their bosses for years what the score is. Same problem where I work. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't necessarily Chinese business practices, its poor American leadership in the manufacturing sector.

You hit the nail on the head. Several years ago there was an article in Fine Woodworking where they went to Taiwan and toured factories that made woodworking equipment. US buyers bought the cheapest equipment that was available. Price is not the only thing that counts.

BK From Penn · 04-08-2005, 05:08 PM

First time posting on this board, so a quick intro is probably appropriate. My name is Brent Kane. I am the Advertising & Communication Mgr for Penn Fishing Tackle. Having been with the company for just over two years, I have seen a fair amount of the changes and can appreciate the concern and resentment towards Penn. I also worked at Fisherman's Headquarters in NJ for about 10 years prior and saw what was happening to Penn. About five years ago, I had given up any faith on the company. They allowed quality to slip, processes to slide, and their name to turn. Quite honestly, it pi$$ed me off, and when the company sold to the new owners I knew things would improve. Two years ago, I managed to get a position with Penn, and I have been holding on tight ever since; it is a bumpy ride. There were many things wrong, and to fix them is not an overnight process. As they say, what a long strange trip it's been.

From what I have read on this board so far, it seems like a pretty good group, and is the reason why I am offerring my email address to answer questions on Penn issues. Please feel free to ask anything with the exception of pricing, deals, product specifications, or what reel is best matched with what rod. My answer to these is simply see your local Penn Gold Label Dealer. As far as questions that pertain to Penn issues, I'll answer anything as honestly as I can. Quality, decisions, direction, production, relationships with Dealers, new product suggestions, whatever else you can think of??? I can be reached at bkane@pennreels.com I will have no problem with my reply being copied onto the site for others to read or even argue back to me with their take on my comments. I apologize for taking this approach, but the last time I spent time on a fishing forum it became impossible to keep up with all the topics, threads, and posts. I hope this approach works.

I look forward to receiving your emails, and all I ask for is patience; I will try my best to answer any inquiries the same day, but depending on other priorities, it may take a day or two.

Best regards,
Brent

JohnR · 04-04-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachwalker

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

So who is goign to sell all the honey lamis and Penn reels to the tourists? And will the tourists finally stop flipping the reels over and backwinding when they see some of us with conventionals

Interesting to hear that about Bill. Very nice guy and I wish him luck (though I've often wondered if he has poured too much lead over the years without a mask)...

What does that leave for a decent shop on the island? The gas station?

Penn - they have screwed the pooch. Anyone have any method for them to come on and engage some of their customers? No, I'm not holding my breath