Penn cleans house

[BK From Penn]

Originally Posted by mikecc

Close chris. we have sold 78 Shimano and only 1 Penn Spinning (706) but we have sold 6 Penn 113HSP ,1 - 330GTI and only 1 Shimano Boat reel.

This is lhe last post for me on this subject.

I'll I have to say is there is no reason for me to believe in Penn when the Company does not believe in themselves.

OUCH!!!

MikeCC, How about this for believing: Within five years, Penn will regain any lost ground from the past 15 year hiatus and move to the top of the food chain once again. Don't worry, there are still many that believe in Penn, and this includes Dealers up and down and around the coast. And as far as believing, Penn believes in Dealers that believe in us.

Here we are, launching new, improved, and revolutionary products and/or accessories; not really the sign of a company that does not believe in itself. What about the new Penn Dura-Drag, the Baja Special, the 118 new rods that we designed for 2005, the new fishing line that we launched this January, the new XXXX and XXXX-X that we can't talk about yet? I don't get the impression that we don't believe in ourselves, quite the contrary...
BK

[rwilhelm]

I have a 560 Slammer and when I first used the reel I really liked it. Was very smooth and seemed to have a good drag. Maybe it is just me but whenever I dunk this reel, the drag is almost non-existant. One thing I think would have been a good idea is to have put a bronze main gear on the slammer instead of whatever that metal is on there now. I broke a couple of teeth on the main gear this past season.

[BK From Penn]

Originally Posted by rwilhelm

I have a 560 Slammer and when I first used the reel I really liked it. Was very smooth and seemed to have a good drag. Maybe it is just me but whenever I dunk this reel, the drag is almost non-existant. One thing I think would have been a good idea is to have put a bronze main gear on the slammer instead of whatever that metal is on there now. I broke a couple of teeth on the main gear this past season.

Not sure why the drag would disappate when dunked, as you should have a sealed drag knob, and with the drag under-the-spool, there is much less chance for water to intrude. Check to see if the drab knob has a small gasket, if not, I would recommend picking up another one from your local Penn Dealer or call our Parts department. If you have the gasket, I'd then check to make sure the drag plate is screwed down. Other than that, I don't have an answer.

I guess I should also find out, are you wetsuiting with the reel, or is this an occassional wave breaking over you that is causing this to occur. If wetsuiting, I would recommend a drag lube that will help keep water from instruding. I would also disassemble the reel after each trip, and rebuild, as the Slammer is not a water proof reel like the Van Staal.

As far as the main gear, I believe it is a hardened naval bronze, so I am not sure why there would be any problems. Without seeing the reel, or the condition is was in, I am working blind, so I won't try to guess what the issue might be. Has this been repaired already? If not, I would love to have it sent to me for evaluation.

Feel free to get back to me at your convenience.
BK

[BK From Penn]

Again, please feel free to email with specific questions.

Thanks for the commentary and opportunity to reply. THere will always be those that hate, disagree with everything we are doing, and have nothing but negative to say. Great, bring it on; Penn can't be everything to everyone. As long as we are making reels/rods/products that I can personally say I would fish with, I'm a happy camper. Have a great season, and tight lines to all.

Looking forward to some emails with specific questions.

Best regards,
Brent

[outfished]

And a big horrah for Penn! In China, it is estimated by many that of the 10 million children out of school, over 5 million are working in factories! Labor cost will drop, prices will go up and we get IMO, you sold your soul to the devil

[fishweewee]

Originally Posted by outfished

And a big horrah for Penn! In China, it is estimated by many that of the 10 million children out of school, over 5 million are working in factories! Labor cost will drop, prices will go up and we get IMO, you sold your soul to the devil

Do you own any Ticas? Guess where they are made?

Penn's a little late to the game outsourcing their manufacturing to the Chinese.

[outfished]

Originally Posted by fishweewee

Do you own any Ticas? Guess where they are made?

Penn's a little late to the game outsourcing their manufacturing to the Chinese.

No ticas in my closet, but I guess there is a little china in everything we own in some way or another

[JohnR]

BK - I don't think there are many that hate Penn or at least won't warm back up to Penn if the company gets its sheet together. I think Penn can win a lot of them back but it will take a combination of savy and dependable product, a true and noticeable commitment from Penn to the customer base (maybe this is the start? Hope so but not holding my breath) and MADE in USA product.

If Penn is still a US company (don't worry, we still are) and you are arguing for made in the US, than why favor foreign competitors? I do not understand.

For years, that Made in USA was the make or break for a lot of people to chose from your product over the Shimanos and Daiwas of the world. Buying Made in the USA when the product sucks The product of recent years has not been of sufficient design and quality to stand above the better imported reels. Right now, especially with the condition of the Penn product in the state that it is in, there is little incentive to buy a Penn over another reel. Forget about Saltigas and Stellas, why buy a Slammer over a Stradic? If you are one of those that believe it is a toss up in quality on the reel, many might buy the Penn because it is made here instead of by the People's Liberation Army.

As for the graphite - I checked a couple out but nothing gave me the warm and fuzzies that I had to go and trade one of my Stradics in for one. As for the size reel I fish? 220yds of 12 # test ( BTW - your website is screwed up on the line sizes) is not going to do it for me. A Slammer 560 has borderline capacity for where I feel I need to be for surf fishing. I typically run about 170-180 yards of braid on one of my conventionals, 300 braid/mono on my 975. This is for what I consider average surf fishing for stripers. That graphite 5500g for "Trophy" fish ain't big enough for the trophys I chase. Hate to see what someone chasing bigger fish from shore would need. A 7500 or 8500 is too unwieldy for plugging although it has sufficient capacity. But then there is the bail thing...

Right now, I don't think Penn has enough of the right stuff to get me purchase their product. I've owned a few Penns, I am (was) one of your customers. Time is going to tell if I decide to purchase a Penn reel again. It won't happen if it is more of the same. If the company is truly turning the corner maybe I will. I won't buy one if it is made in China - that much I can say. Philosophical problem. I try not to buy from there when I truly have a choice. I will consider Taiwan. Putting my money where my mouth is...

MikeCC, How about this for believing: Within five years, Penn will regain any lost ground from the past 15 year hiatus and move to the top of the food chain once again. Don't worry, there are still many that believe in Penn, and this includes Dealers up and down and around the coast. And as far as believing, Penn believes in Dealers that believe in us.

I truly would like to see that with a US made product. As for Penn belieiving in dealers that believe in Penn. Mike was one of your biggest supporters. He runs a first class shop. I don't entirely recall what some of the Mickey Mouse rules were for being a Gold Dealer but but there is soome Mickey Mouse - something like you need to carry X type of other reels from Penn, whether it is your market or not, or you need to carry a crappy reel as well or both, I don't remember correctly and I went looking for the thread but could not find it. Mike is the kind of shop you WANT to be a Gold Dealer. Knowlegeable, helpful, stands behind the product.

BTW - we DO appreciate your sitting in on this thread and discussing this with us. This is a very good start. So while it may appear that you are getting hammered, OK - you are a little bit - it is not personal, but a very rare time that Penn is taking upon itself or maybe just you, to connect with their buyers.... It is very appreciated. where it leads as well as other changes Penn makes down the road will mean a lot for people moving back to the Penn name....

Hey Eben - do you still have that picture of the PennStaal from SOL? I think BK needs some inspiration

[Billybob]

If it is cheaper to make the spinners in China, why isn't cheaper to make the conventionals there?Maybe they're not losing money for you, but it's only a matter of time before some bean counter uses the migrated China spinner model across the board.
Then, who is gonna be buying these reels?
I don't blame you - everyone's doing it, but it's a recipe for disaster IMO.
If you design a better product, with outstanding service, and parts - you should be able to make a go of it here.I own a lot of Penns, and some of them are older than me - you can still get parts for them.
But then, I like Snap-on tools.
.
Advertising catches people's attention.


Reputations are much harder to come by, but infinately more valuable

[BK From Penn]

Originally Posted by outfished

And a big horrah for Penn! In China, it is estimated by many that of the 10 million children out of school, over 5 million are working in factories! Labor cost will drop, prices will go up and we get IMO, you sold your soul to the devil

Yup, labor is cheap in CHina. Once they get their act together it will be cheap somewhere else. It is a pretty simple math equation to perform. Take a spinning reel that is more labor intensive to assemble than it is to make the parts, take one very well-paid US worker versus the on-going rate of a CHinese factory worker. One of our US workers will pay for an entire assembly line. Factor in the fact that Penn was losing more than $3million per year at our Spinning Reel Factory, and we were faced with three decisions:
1. Stop selling spinning reels altogether. Save a $3mil lost, stop selling all spinning reek products, while foreign competition continues to pump reel after reel into the market.

2. Make Reels in the US and lose $3mil/yr or double or triple the price of our reels Not an option. We would be better off with the first option.

or...

3. Close US Factory, save $3mil/year, help find employment and do the right thing for displaced employees, and import spinning reels that are made to Penn specifications so Penn can make money and keep employing the three hundred other US workers at Penn. Someone inside our group said this best, It is not how many people we are losing, but how many we can save.

What is you decision if faced with these three options??? Sold our soul to the devil? I think not. Walk a mile before casting the first accussation. No one likes what is going on, but at the end of the day, a company has to be profitable and viable if it is to survive.

How about an incentive for moving offshore courtesy of our good goverment and their abiliity to tax. Here is an interesting little tax we all pay, the Federal Excise tax levied on all fishing related products. In its simplest form, this is a 10% tax paid on all fishing products. It is calculated upon the first price paid for an item when it is sold in the US. So when Penn sells an item made in the US, we are already at an extreme disadvantage to our foreign compeition. What they will do is sell the product into the US at a lower value, possibly their cost, to a separate holding company, who then "sells" the product back to their US counterpart company. OK, so it costs them $1 to sell an item, and they pay a 10cent tax on this. They can then markup the item to distributors and dealers at a disadvantage to Penn because we must pay the 10% on the first price sold (often to distributors). So lets say instead of the $1 our competition is selling their product at, we are at $8. Our tax is 80cents compared to their 10cents. This is a very elementary version of what takes place, but I am sure anyone can get an idea how we are already behind the proverbial 8-ball with foreign competition.

Penn is trying to keep jobs in the US, and will do so to the best of our abilities, but the tackle industry is the laggard in the great outsourcing project that is China. Take a look at just about any textile, clock, toaster, microwave, etc. Manufacturing is becoming more and more impossible in the US, and we are managaging to maintain a lion share of our reels as still being built in the US.

Brent Kane

[fishweewee]

...don't forget this is an innovation-driven product category... (= R&D, and *cough* user input)

...and it's also marketing-driven... ya think Shimano spends more on marketing dollars (including retail dealer incentives) than Penn does?

Where is the market for reels going?