Got in a plover argument last night

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by likwid

I'm not a plover supporter

Are you sure about that?


And as far as I'm concerned, they SHOULD allow less beach vehicle traffic, most of you could use the exercise.

less beach traffic? we've lost enough already, time to start getting back access.

good thing didn't say all of you

beach access being lost is a sore subject, try not to dig the dagger in any further ok

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

less beach traffic? we've lost enough already, time to start getting back access.

good thing didn't say all of you

beach access being lost is a sore subject, try not to dig the dagger in any further ok

People should be sore about the amount of striped bass there are out there, not getting to them.

I'd rather see Striped Bass #'s the way they were 40 years ago than beach access the way it was 40 years ago.

But will either happen? Not likely.

[Karl F]

Your confusing me likwid.... you've said on another thread that it's OK for the seals to eat the bass, your don't want the bounty back on them, like 40 years ago... close access to people is OK, in your book, so a bird that is no longer endangered, can be wiped out by predators at a more rapid rate........ do you also take Omega3, to support the people draggin all the menhaden out of the food chain for the bass as well?
Bring back the bait, (protect the bunker, herring, etc.), eliminate the seals, the bass population might not just increase, (which it has already a bit), they might actually be more healthy... they are starving for lack of bait, that is the big "bass" problem right now...
Do you fish?

[Swimmer]

True Likwid, about the numbers, but most of the guys I know throw every fish back trying to increase those numbers. I think its great a younger person suc as yourself is this caring. After all you get closer to mother eart than most of us with the diving you do. Most if not all of us are very concerned here, for selfish reasons, and for the good of all.

I am a little disappointed at not getting the blow by blow this winter from you.

[likwid]

Off topic:

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I am a little disappointed at not getting the blow by blow this winter from you.

I didn't work in the mountains this winter, Spent November in California (skied) then took a boat from Annapolis to the USVI in December and after that beating my back and wrists were too messed up to try to work up north.

Slowly recovering and enjoying the few very nice days we've had so far this year.

Just delivered the largest sailboat in Padanaram back to Concordia 2 weeks ago from New England Boat Works too.

[Swimmer]

I fish out of Padnaram with a buddy of mine. I am amazed at the nice sailboats that are at anchor in the inner and outer harbor there. I can tell you that in some areas of the cape such as Nauset Light I have seen several hundred feet of lost to nature in the last 35 years. There used to be a small sandwich stand at Nauset that the Whiting family owned. Used to frequent it everyday. My buddies and I used to roam the outer cape and go surfing then at places no one knew of but now are extremely popular places. The bar in Wellfleet on the ocean just up from Newcombs Hollow beach when I was a kid still had dirt on the floor in the head. Now its a wildly popular place. When I was a kid anyone got serve there and I mean everyone. Marconi beach had yet to be born, while Marconi station was there the only beach access was along and old service road along the top of the dunes that was put in place to deliver stuff to the troops in the bunkers that have seen since been removed. We used to surf down the dunes and the n rides waves all day and walk back up the dunes dog tired. I used to travel to North Beach in Chatham before the split. Used to stay in a cabin that disappeared during the bad storm in February, 1978. My opinon is that fxd's do very little damage as compared to mother nature. They do exacerbate what nature does certainly, but it is minor in comparison.

[SeaWolf]

there is one fact i do know about fighting usf&w - their law rules. we may not like it, but they go by the facts presented by their employees' reports. this is especially true on the whole piping plover situation. there are so many states effected by this bird. sure, it is easy to get on the "piping plovers taste like chicken" bandwagon. i know, i used to, but i learned to understand the facts, issues, and future. one thing is that we all need to adapt our fishing around this bird while their nesting season is on us. i know it must be especially hard on the islands and outer cape, but it's a necessary "evil" right now.

the 2003 atlantic plover population count was 1676. the numbers were increasing throught that late 90s and into the new century, but were down from 2002 count of 1690. i did not see the 2004 population report yet. these birds need a couple of things to happen before they are removed from the endanged species act (they are listed as threatened in most states): 1.) the population must hit 2000 breeding pairs; 2.) the population must have a breeding surplus (the fledged chicks must prove signs of sustaining and increasing the population) each year for a period of 5 consecutive years, i believe. now, does this mean we have 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years to go before they reach these numbers, i don't know. I do know that i am watching the numbers, working w/ f&w to build a repor with them to show we are trying to live with these birds. when these birds do reach those milestones and are removed from the endangered species act, the local states enforcement will control beach access, birds protection, etc. i would then turn my fight to try and gain the lost beach access areas taken when this bird first became listed at endanagered. i would also work to try and have a controlled time that when the birds are there, access can be limited.

one thing you must remember is who is fighting for the birds well being - green peace, audubon, etc., all "respected" and prosperous organizations. they pay a lot of money to research for this bird and other issues. they do their homework. meanwhile, fisherman are considered a threat. prove them wrong. do your homework, know the facts, and be prepared to argue your points when someone challenges your views.

[Karl F]

No doc # on that seashore report, it is titled the 1999 ORV impact study... plover's , enviro, all covered they can't pin anything on ORV.... interestly enough biggest problem in plover nests that year... washovers.... Darwin award winners, them plovers... biggest cause of erosion as well .. no chit.
Interesting read, and I do remember that MA Audobon was a little peesed at the time this study was released to the public...

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by SeaWolf

one thing you must remember is who is fighting for the birds well being - green peace, audubon, etc., all "respected" and prosperous organizations. they pay a lot of money to research for this bird and other issues.

Greenpeace?!They're almost as fanatical as PETA!

Resepected.Hardly.

Prosperous.Ya because the same Hollywood types who donate millions to PETA do the same for Greenpeace.

Greenpeace and Audubon.Night and day.

[DZ]

Originally Posted by likwid

People should be sore about the amount of striped bass there are out there, not getting to them.

I'd rather see Striped Bass #'s the way they were 40 years ago than beach access the way it was 40 years ago.
But will either happen? Not likely.

You can have all the striped bass in the world but if you don't have the shore/beach access to catch them your point is mute.


Jim,
Way to stand up for what you believe in: now write a letter to the MV paper telling them what transpired at the "dinner Party". I would have loved to be there sipping a martini and heard you put her in her place.

DZ

[likwid]

My reasoning behind wanting the beaches closed is for better research into how to handle the situation between wildlife, beachgoers and the inevitable wasting away of the cape by erosion.

There needs to be a common ground that can be reached between access and wildlife protection, and NEITHER side wants to give away ANYTHING.

Thats the core issue. The fact alone totally off topic that in MY lifetime we very well could run out of oil has me way down lately about how we're not only managing resources but how we manage the amazing areas that we're allowed access to. Anyone who's walked the Audubon sanctuary down on the cape will attest to just how amazingly beautiful that area is without the encroachment of people or vehicles.

The cape isn't there for us to do wtf ever we please with it. If we do that everyone's kids, and their kids won't have it to enjoy like we have. And that goes for fish, birds, deer, turkeys, worms, eels, sharks, etc.

Environment and Wildlife management as it is, is a total goddamn joke in this country, the people who run it only seem to see in black and white and don't find a common ground for both sides to begrudgingly accept.