They Think It Can't Happen Here Again!!!!

[BigFish]

We did not have troops in all of Germany...just part of it after the split! Point is we were not there rebuilding it or trying to govern it!

[Mike P]

If it happened in Britain, of course it could happen here.

Britain's intelligence services are the equal of anyone's.

They don't have a written constitution with a Bill of Rights. There's no 4th Amendment in the UK, and their courts don't have an exclusionary rule that prohibits the introduction of illegally obtained evidence.

Their intelligence and law enforcement people aren't hamstrung by their laws, and they have much more leeway to conduct wiretaps, other electronic surveillance and warrantless searches of premises.

Almost 35 years of IRA terrorism has given their law enforcement people a lot of experience, and their laws allow the authorities to detain terrorist suspects without bringing charges, sometimes "At Her Majesty's Pleasure", which means they throw away the key.

Their miltary special operations folks are the gold standard world-wide and they can be employed domestically. And have been reputed to have been used as hit squads against the IRA and INLF.

And, you have to believe that whatever intelligence the US has gleaned against Al Queda and its friends since 9/11 has been shared with the Brits.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by BigFish

We did not have troops in all of Germany...just part of it after the split! Point is we were not there rebuilding it or trying to govern it!

Ever here of the uhh, err, Marshall PLan? Technically, "WE" only had troops in 1/4th of Germany, France, the UK, and the Sovs split up the rest plus a 4 way split of Berlin (who here has taken the Berlin Night Train ). The ideological difference of the Soviets brought the Iron Curtain and resulted in the Berlin Airlift.

We did rebuild Germany and Japan and we, or at least our parents and grandparents and Capesams , paid a goodly portion of it. We instituted the governments there and got them started too. But the German people and the Japanese people pulled themselves together and made something of their countries with PRIDE. But they were fully defeated militarily but fortunately did not have much in the way of roving hit squads and suicide bombers.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Ever here of the uhh, err, Marshall PLan? Technically, "WE" only had troops in 1/4th of Germany, France, the UK, and the Sovs split up the rest plus a 4 way split of Berlin (who here has taken the Berlin Night Train ). The ideological difference of the Soviets brought the Iron Curtain and resulted in the Berlin Airlift.

We did rebuild Germany and Japan and we, or at least our parents and grandparents and Capesams , paid a goodly portion of it. We instituted the governments there and got them started too. But the German people and the Japanese people pulled themselves together and made something of their countries with PRIDE. But they were fully defeated militarily but fortunately did not have much in the way of roving hit squads and suicide bombers.

thank you john....

just last week a "master of all he surveys" was proclaiming the injustices of Gitmo and I laughed about Amnesty's comment that it was the "Gulag" of our time.

Then I mentioned that 8 or so congressman went down to review the "atrocities" (a cross section of parties mind you) and we have heard nary peep from the press since.

I think when they saw the air conditioning many of the leftists shut up.

how soon people forgot about 9/11 and Madrid and began criticising again....

[spence]

Originally Posted by beachwalker

Then I mentioned that 8 or so congressman went down to review the "atrocities" (a cross section of parties mind you) and we have heard nary peep from the press since.

I wouldn't say that's true at all. Tell me there hasn't been plenty of reporting on GITMO since???

I think when they saw the air conditioning many of the leftists shut up.

Do you have to be a leftist to be critical of GITMO? Don't think so, in fact it's an observation any pragmatic person can make regardless of idiology.

how soon people forgot about 9/11 and Madrid and began criticising again....

I love how it always comes back to the "remember 9/11" mantra. Does 9/11 weaken the US Constitution? Does it give us freedom to ignore our own laws?

If the Founding Fathers were aware the US Government was secretly detaining large numbers of people without charge they would be rolling in their graves.

We're not talking about the specific interrogation of known terrorists, it's the wholesale rounding up of anyone we choose, then putting them through hell to see if they just might know anything...

I think most Americans find the interrogation techniques permitted and at times endorsed by the Administration to be quite un-American and patently dehumanizing, often abusive and sometimes even torture.

This isn't my America, and if 9/11 made it so, then you have just given Bin Laden another victory.

-spence

[Homerun04]

Soence - I agree with some of your points, and disagree with some others.

I guess that's what makes the world go round..............

[Swimmer]

I am addressing many issues mentioned here bear with me.

We did rebuild Germany and they paid every cent we told them it cost. They are the only country to do so. We took over Japan and instituted our form of democracy there. That was their payback. If Haliburton wasn't submitting the lowest contract bids some other company would be with "ties" to one of our current leaders.
As far as WMD's, nope no one found any amount that could be considered a stockpile. Did he have and use them in the past, just ask the KURDS. Did Saddam and his henchmen kill 300,000 non believers, just ask their families who have been digging their bodies up. And Saddam showed so much arrogance in those peoples murders he left their identification with thier bodies. 300,000 is all they have founbd so far because things are a little hot out in the desert in Iraq right now, so no looking is going on.
Why are we the only country that is supposed to be blessed with free speech and a democratic way of life? In this regard we are extremely selfish. Sure we give money, we give many things and now we are giving are most precious children to this cause. I am not referring to one person here on this
list when I say this but many people are starting to sound like Jane Fonda out there, and most of them are doing and saying things only because they want to unseat George Bush. These Fondas, certain senators and congressman,
do not really care about our servicemen and women they just want to get a democrat in the high office, which makes thier intentions rather obscene.
To say that we shouldn't be there is to say that their isn't an Iraqi worth saving. You can't always bandaid problems overseas with foreign aid and hope thing will get better. Sometimes you have to gut it up and do the right thing and sometimes that hurts.

[likwid]

This is also a VERY different situation Mike, occupying and just sitting on the country is NOT working this time around.

Just because it worked before dosen't mean it'll work again.
Maybe you're forgetting the ENORMOUS DEBT that we're accruing from all this?

Whats it all worth? Honestly.

[shortwavez]

its just so unfortunate that our world has come to all this...my heart and prayers go out to all those in london.

[Homerun04]

Originally Posted by shortwavez

its just so unfortunate that our world has come to all this...

I think - for me - a better word then "unfortunate" is "shame" -- because we, as a species, made CONSCIENCE decisions to make this world the way it is. "Unfortunate" (to me) by definition implies a certain amount of luck, or randomness, or "fortune".

Our world is f****d up by design because governmental egos made it so -- and that is a shame. Why don't our governments do what they are supposed to do and make this world a better place?

But then again, one man's (or government's) definition of better, and another man's (or government's) definition of better can be radically different (e.g. Mr. Bush vs. Mr. Heussein).

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Homerun04

Why don't our governments do what they are supposed to do and make this world a better place?

Profits.... its all about profits.

[Homerun04]

Profits.... its all about profits.

[Nebe]

and if anyone doesnt believe me, look into what bush thinks about global warming and the G-8 convention. Profits win over saving our planets sensitive ecosystems.