Race Point

[piemma]

There may be no more beach to drive in the future but the Feds have been taking our rights on the beach away since JFK declared the Cape Cod National Seashore. The bird folks and the Truro residents have a very, very strong lobby going against us.
I drove the beaches for 30 years and quit 3 years ago because it's not fishermen anymore. Go to the back any day in July or August and you will find 100 trucks with grills, sun shades, tube floats. It's like Coney Island. You can still find fish but since the Feds close everything within a half mile of the Mission Bell what the hell is the use. No Laures, 2/10s hole, Peaked Hill Bar or High Head unless you crawl in the back way and that's probably closed for the birds also. We use to drive 600 miles every weekend. 2 round trips. just doesn't make sense anymore.

[Mr. Sandman]

The reason our beaches are closed is because of envirnomental whackos. You can't say a thing about the plover without being ganged up upon by people who have never been to the beach who think they know whats best.

[Flaptail]

Once again the lobbyist for the Conservation Law foundation, Sierra Club, The Animal Welfare fund, PETA and the Audobon Society have been able to push through laws that will restrict the impact of human use on animal species. Trouble is is that there are way more recreational and commercial fisherman than the total memberships of those organizations but they do a much better job or representing thier views than we do of ours. Sportfisherman have always been a distant second when trying to organize themselves into a powerfull lobby. The money is there and the numbers are there but the willingness to get out and get organized is not, so........... oke:

[fishweewee]

Piss on Plovers. Put People First.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by piemma

There may be no more beach to drive in the future but the Feds have been taking our rights on the beach away since JFK declared the Cape Cod National Seashore.

National Seashore or rows of private property/million dollar homes.

pick one.

JFK GAVE you access, if it wasn't for him there'd be no PUBLIC beaches.

[Flaptail]

Still with it's inherent faults it was the very best thing that ever happened to Cape Cod. I shudder to think what Truro, Wellfleet, Eastham and P-town outer beaches would be like without it. Best thing JFK ever did beside boff Marilyn!

[piemma]

Flap:
I agree. It would be wall to wall million dollar condos with no place at all for us.
Funny story. It was about 10 years ago and there was a group of us fishing the Second Rip. There was a fenced off area for Mrs. Plover and family. Everyday we would see a Golden eagle sitting on an old post at the edge of the dunes. He was methodically picking off chicks one after another. I guess he couldn't read the do not molest the plover signs.

[Rockport24]

wow, I think Flaptail has a good point here, why don't we as a bunch of surfcasters get together and take some politicians out to expensive dinners and give them expensive wine and kobe steak and try and get them to see things our way? and amen on the million dollar condo thing, in Rockport, MA I look at the map and over great looking shore spots, but there is no access because it is owned by some CEO with no trespassing signs everywhere....and don't even mention the parking situation up there.. then they wonder why their tourism revenues have seen a decline lately and they think legalizing alcohol is going to solve it, guess what people, if there is no where for anybody to park and they get ticketed on a sunday than how can they go drink alchohol in your restaurants!!
but I digress...

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

wow, I think Flaptail has a good point here, why don't we as a bunch of surfcasters get together and take some politicians out to expensive dinners and give them expensive wine and kobe steak and try and get them to see things our way? and amen on the million dollar condo thing, in Rockport, MA I look at the map and over great looking shore spots, but there is no access because it is owned by some CEO with no trespassing signs everywhere....and don't even mention the parking situation up there.. then they wonder why their tourism revenues have seen a decline lately and they think legalizing alcohol is going to solve it, guess what people, if there is no where for anybody to park and they get ticketed on a sunday than how can they go drink alchohol in your restaurants!!
but I digress...

What if there was some New England based saltwater angler consortium that included all fishing clubs, websites, bait and tackle shops? Think the RFA but more directed to pulling everyone together instead of being a nother "group". The RFA model is close but I don't know if it goes far enough??

[piemma]

Originally Posted by likwid

National Seashore or rows of private property/million dollar homes.

pick one.

JFK GAVE you access, if it wasn't for him there'd be no PUBLIC beaches.

Once again you have distorted what I or many others post. I did not say I had a problem with JFK. I merely stated that he set aside the Cape Cod National Seashore. Perhaps you should give reading a try before you put pen to paper. oke:

[Karl F]

I dunno likwid, I think you'd probably see more access, as the other towns would see the cash cow that Orleans has with Nauset.... lot of mixed feelings on the seashore... I'd like the 35 miles back, that we used to be able to access by buggy... even if it was like certain other areas.. 7PM till 7AM, lot of nice structure no one will ever get to anymore.

(note, no kennedys were mentioned in this post )

[Mr. Sandman]

OT: Speaking of Kennedy, TODAY is the 36th anniversary of the night Teddy left Mary Joe to DIE on chappy. I think tonight I may pay the old bridge a visit and make a cast or two.



everything you want to know about the event....(with photos)
http://www.ytedk.com/

[mekcotuit]

I believe Ted left Mary Jo on July18, 1969

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Karl F

I dunno likwid, I think you'd probably see more access, as the other towns would see the cash cow that Orleans has with Nauset....

Westport and South Dartmouth.

Nuff said.

[Iwannakeeper]

Originally Posted by Karl F

I dunno likwid, I think you'd probably see more access, as the other towns would see the cash cow that Orleans has with Nauset.... lot of mixed feelings on the seashore... I'd like the 35 miles back, that we used to be able to access by buggy... even if it was like certain other areas.. 7PM till 7AM, lot of nice structure no one will ever get to anymore.

(note, no kennedys were mentioned in this post )

You can get to that structure - by boat.

now I gotta get me a boat!!!

[partsjay]

Here it is.....just put a couple of rod holders.....perfect.

You would look cool too.....

[Karl F]

even if ya got bucks



September 28, 2005

Court ruling: Orleans property not buildable
By JASON KOLNOS
STAFF WRITER
The Appeals Court of Massachusetts has ruled in an Orleans case that some so-called ''grandfathered'' rights that seem to exempt undeveloped properties from minimum zoning requirements no longer offer that protection.

The landmark decision handed down by the state's highest appeals court Monday could affect hundreds of people who want to build homes on undersized lots.

In April, the court heard the case of Stuart Rothman, an Orleans property owner who has been involved in a three-year dispute with neighbors over a plan to build a single family home on his Priscilla Road parcel the town says is way too small.

His Nauset Heights neighbors, who sued Rothman, feared the extra wastewater would contaminate local waters, and that more homes would clog traffic and cause congestion in the neighborhood.

Rothman's 8,000-square-foot lot - not much bigger than a tennis court - is overgrown with vegetation and offers a slight harbor view along the bumpy, unpaved road. The undeveloped parcel is one-fifth the size of the minimum of one acre needed to currently build in Orleans.

Rothman has said he purchased the property for $300,000 in 2001 because he thought the land was protected under an exemption in a 1954 town zoning bylaw.

After a legal ping-pong match among town building officials, the local zoning board of appeals and the state's Land Court, the state Appeals Court finally heard the suit.

The court tried to determine whether state laws allow a lot that was once buildable to remain ''buildable'' even after the exemption had been repealed. Orleans axed the 1954 provision - which allowed one building on any existing lot at least 5,000 square feet - when it amended bylaws in 1971.

Rothman and his attorney, Duane Landreth, had argued that the earlier ''grandfathering'' should apply to his property even though the exact exemption does not exist in the bylaws today.

The appeals court disagreed with Rothman, saying in a five-page opinion that Rothman's property should have met the minimum zoning standards when it first became separately owned in 1971, regardless of that previously afforded exemption.

Since the minimum lot size back then was 20,000 square feet, his property fell short of the zoning standards.

The court said grandfathered rights under state laws don't apply to Rothman's property because the local exemption had been deleted and modified in Orleans.

Neither Rothman nor Landreth returned multiple phone calls yesterday.

Brian S. Kaplan, the Newton attorney who represented the neighbors, said this new rule has potential implications for hundreds of undeveloped properties that might have outdated grandfather provisions.

''The court is saying that if you

piggyback grandfather rights, you aren't going to be protected,'' Kaplan said.

Orleans building commissioner Brian Harrison estimates that there are 10 to 12 undersized properties in Orleans that could have been deemed ''buildable'' if the court sided with Rothman.




Rothman and his attorney can now apply for their case to be heard by the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts.

Only 30 of the 7,000 decisions appealed to the SJC are heard each year, according to Alexander M. McNeil, an administrator in the clerk's office.

Jason Kolnos can be reached at jkolnos@capecodonline.com.


(Published: September 28, 2005)

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[likwid]

Originally Posted by piemma

Once again you have distorted what I or many others post. I did not say I had a problem with JFK. I merely stated that he set aside the Cape Cod National Seashore. Perhaps you should give reading a try before you put pen to paper. oke:

Distored? You were complaining about the feds taking away rights.
If I was gonna say you had a problem with JFK I'd have asked if you were jealous about how much poontang he got.

BFD, they close it for a bunch of birds. It dosen't last all season.

And if it wasn't turned into a national seashore I'm sure the Kennedy's and their buddies would have a nice long row of houses along with million dollar condos lining the rest of the area.

There's more money in property taxes from that crap than there ever would be from town beaches etc. and certainly more jobs for the locals.

[Karl F]

likwid.. Nauset generates about 1.5 mill per annum, not bad for a small parking lot and 7.5 miles of unbuildable beach.

[likwid]

Thats impressive, I'm sure property taxes on super exclusive gated communities would generate that in a couple months after seeing how they do in other areas like Padanaram/Mishaum Point/Col. Green's and out west in areas like Newport Beach, San Luis Obispo.

And nothing is unbuildable... Ever been to Malibu?

[Karl F]

U never tried to get a permit in the peoples republic of Orleans
took me three months to process permit for a 12 by 12 tool shed, and barely got it!
All camps out there built after 1959 have been ripped down... and there is some rumblings about the lack of title 5 compliance, and the fact that none have Occ. Permits... they all might go

..... tax rate is under 5 bucks per thou as well