Oct. OTW

[BigFish]

You are castrating these "new" fisherman Eben by making it "too" easy for them...as I said give areas and let them earn their stripes....or "get balls" as you say!

[Nebe]

look bigfish- steve is not the first person to do this. i could go out and buy Striper Hot spots and go hit the cape tomorrow

[Saltheart]

When someone burns a spot publicly (I don't mean you told your friend , I mean publishing it like internet , books , magazines , talks) its because of one of two things. ego or money (or both). Some guys its very obvious , they are chest pounders with no self control.

Some guys , its hard to figure out "why".

If someone who never displayed an ego problem is suddenly " telling all" by doing shows and writing articles , expect to see a new product coming from them , or they are doing charters or they are doing shore guiding....... Get famous , make money!!! Look for the money and you'll know "why".


The morals of it are easy. Yes , you can talk about whatever you want. However , among fisherman , burning spots is like talking about kissing your old girlfriends. Its bad form to "kiss and tell" and its bad form to "burn spots" in mass media.


Striper fishing was nearly wiped out by money as people fished commercially and the stocks disappeared. Striper fishing is now being wiped out by money as people blab to gain fame and the money that can come with it and we lose access to spots do to too much pressure.

[ProfessorM]

Glad I got a boat.

[MakoMike]

My take on it. If you want to tell people about spots go ahead and do it and just ignore the bitching and lesten to all the thanks yous you'll get. If you want to keep things to yourself, then keep things to yourself. IMHO you guys who are complaining about this are just selfish, like little kids who want to keep everything for themselves.

[reelecstasy]

I was totally shocked when I saw it, just shook my head and said I can't believe they burned it that bad.... Unbelievable..

[Saltheart]

MakoMike, you just don't understand the access issues. More people (especially people who get there the easy way) means less access for everyone.Its being smart , not selfish.

[Nebe]

I just deleted my posts above. I am friends with steve and i felt the need to defend him but i have to read the article first before i justify his actions..

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

When someone burns a spot publicly (I don't mean you told your friend , I mean publishing it like internet , books , magazines , talks) its because of one of two things. ego or money (or both). Some guys its very obvious , they are chest pounders with no self control.

Some guys , its hard to figure out "why".

If someone who never displayed an ego problem is suddenly " telling all" by doing shows and writing articles , expect to see a new product coming from them , or they are doing charters or they are doing shore guiding....... Get famous , make money!!! Look for the money and you'll know "why".


The morals of it are easy. Yes , you can talk about whatever you want. However , among fisherman , burning spots is like talking about kissing your old girlfriends. Its bad form to "kiss and tell" and its bad form to "burn spots" in mass media.


Striper fishing was nearly wiped out by money as people fished commercially and the stocks disappeared. Striper fishing is now being wiped out by money as people blab to gain fame and the money that can come with it and we lose access to spots do to too much pressure.

Couple things - Steve was shore guiding but that was an adventure of sorts and most went because they could learn technique AND spots. But that is kind of what it has always been about if you are the angler that wants to take a shore guide. Why do people hire Stezko? To see how and WHERE he fishes. To the best of my knowledge, Steve is no longer guiding, just keeping his previous commitments. And yes, Steve is a very nice guy and yes, Steve does offer good info to people, including those that are just starting out.

The problem, as I see it, is a problem with the culture of surffishing and the media that supports it and benefits from it. That problem exists here too at times as much as we try to steer off that course. Now the other problem in fishing, is that it is SOOOOOOOO damn alluring, everyone wants to find away to make a living at it so they can do it a lot more often. Some of you aspiring PLug Builders that plan to go "Professional", how much is your dream to be able to make money commercially selling plugs? I would love to open a tackle store and make a comfortable living here on S-B, but the model doesn't really work for me (I also thnk it would further erode this community). But for me, and I'm sure for some of you aspiring plug builders. it is a combination of a labor of love and coveted McDonalds Fryolator money that keeps me going. For Steve, writing an article is MickeyD's money to support the fishing habit (he ain't rich either). I wish he did not talk spots either but he may be in a position that he either gets the coin by throwing in or writing about spots or he doesn't get published. So he is making his small slice, like many building plugs, rods, commercial fishing for bass or fluke, working in a shop, becoming a Charter Service, tying flies, having an online store, the list goes on.

Originally Posted by MakoMike

My take on it. If you want to tell people about spots go ahead and do it and just ignore the bitching and lesten to all the thanks yous you'll get. If you want to keep things to yourself, then keep things to yourself. IMHO you guys who are complaining about this are just selfish, like little kids who want to keep everything for themselves.

As for being selfish? Partly - yeh, it's tough to figure out a spot and then see it coughed up for the world. It is far worse to see a location that can't handle any pressure get over run by hordes of people, many with no regard for the surroundings. This is FAR more a pressing issue on the surf then it is in a boat in most cases. Look what the sticker problem has been at CCNS in years of late, due to overpbulicity. Look at how many more recreational nets are in the water at the Herring Runs, look at the 16 foot boats being in places they have no sense being in because of the chance of an epic blitz. Look at the shorts and sneaker wearing individual with a trout rod out on the Avenues in Gansett because he read something in a magazine. Yes, the media around fishing (including to some extent this site), is creating excessive pressure on the sport AND access with little responsibility for what is being written. People don't buy OTW or NEF for the conservation articles - they buy buy for the methods, spots, and content. People don't buy Striper Hot Spots or the OTW Shore Guide series because of the historical significance they offer - but for spots. Look in the Fisherman and see the stuff the shops put in for reports, it's all a grab for marketm get people in the door. Whether the info is factual, current, or on a rare occasion, honest. How often do you see shops saying that there is not much happening as things are slow? How often do you see three or four different shops putting in practically the same report?

There needs to be a dose of responsibility pushed into all of the fishing media. It ain't happening. Not good for sales you see.

Sheet - I'm rambling again

[choggieman]

Makomike- some of us complainers are as far from selfish as it gets. But we are also the guys who put in the time and effort to learn by trial and error how to and where to fish. If I bust my azz to learn a new spot, and figure out how to catch fish there, how fair is it to have some guy who is done with the spot give explicit details on the exact ways to fish it , where to park etc...to anyone who can read? I think it is a good idea to give general reports, such as " fish in soco", but an explicit report does nothing but bring in every person who is too lazy to find out how to do it the hard way.
My biggest concern is with the increased traffic in these areas, the number of numbnuts who litter and bring lanterns and make lots of noise in residential areas, not to mention the poachers who take shorts, the drinkers and all the other people who give us true fishermen bad names. I can garantee the next time I step foot in anyone of the spots mentioned the litter will be out of control, the lights will be everywhere and the beer cans will be in every corner. This leads to loss of access to these spots and for us under priveleged guys without private property to fish, not only to we take the blame, we lose the spot.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I just deleted my posts above. I am friends with steve and i felt the need to defend him but i have to read the article first before i justify his actions..

Eben - past few months you have been posting and deleting quick (as have a lot of people). I think I am going to put you in "Edit Time Out" - a joke...

[Nebe]

this is what happens when eben is home sick for over 4 days

[Canalman]

Being someone who writes a bit, and being someone who's been flamed for it in the past (although not publicly and I thank him for that ). I have to say I have not seen an increase in pressure in those spots. However, my name is not Steve mckenna so people probably don't put as much stock into my articles as they do his. I will say that the magazines DO ask for spot specific articles and I have turned down many and I probably won't do one again. But what Steve did is unforgivable, I would understand if he merely mentioned the spots with some loose instruction, but this map business and the driving/parking directions is, in my mind, Taboo. So turn the key on the locks that close a few more of our ever dwindling shore access spots and know that you'll have him to thank when this happens and it will. Reading this post has taught me something too, and that is, if you write up a spot b/c you don't fish it, you could be really hurting someone else, and opening up a sacred place to people who clean out their trucks by throwing $#!+ in the bushes. Hopefully Steve will learn that lesson, the hard way, today.

-Dave

[capesams]

bring's to mind an old saying" damed if you do and damed if you don't..

I'm an a$$ cause I won't tell.
He's an a$$ cause he did.

this is just the start of telling all and all for the $$..name in light's..chest pounding at it best etc. etc.....it's going to get worse before it get's better.

[piemma]

Again it goes back to the ethics of our sport. It's not so much about what was said. IT's that it was said.

[JFigliuolo]

All of you defending what was written, or implying those of us upset are "sour grapes" How would you feel if YOUR spot was burned in such graphic detail? This is the old "Not my backyard" mentality. And for whoever above reprimanded others for not talking to the author, I have a letter in the mail. I just hope it gets read.

[cheferson]

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by cheferson

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

chef, your growing on me

[Strider]

Screw OTW.........I Don't Subscribe Anymore! Send a message that hits home and dump the Mag!

[bassmaster]

Originally Posted by Nebe

look bigfish- steve is not the first person to do this. i could go out and buy Striper Hot spots and go hit the cape tomorrow

like u know what your doing...........

[Nebe]

drive the beach in the day, find the holes, go back at night. needles mambos, bombers. any sandeel imitation.

[bassmaster]

your a nub

[Nebe]

i learned that from your posts.

[bassmaster]

nub

[Nebe]

i love you BM

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I don't fish Rhody but I care about the guys that fish that spot :

That's what I say!
We need more of that.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by fishaholic18

I resectfully disagree with that.
We all must stick together and have each others back.

but if one doesn't fish it regulary than whats the gripe ?

I understand what everyone means about not burning spots. That's not right and OTW burned a spot. So, for sure, that sucks but if you only go there one or so times a year than whats the problem. IF YOU have special spots to protect than I most certainly agree, one has to work to communicate and protect the privacy.

Still Bassmaster is a puffter

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by cheferson

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

You're right! More incentive for them to write about spots.
The mighty $$$$

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by cheferson

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

Yep - Gene Bourque has got to be laughing and loving this. McKenna (who really is a nice guy and an helluva angler) gets to write an article that details things to the n'th degree, which pisses off the masses, and people flock to the stores that don't subscribe... They will have fewer maggies come back at the end of the month with no income, get 10% of their subscribers that let the maggie lapse to renew, and sign up another bunch of new people. All the while someone else will take the heat... Good for him and OTW but sucks for Steve. And I like OTW, but this is where I think the maggies are sacrificing access for profit and that is completely irresponsible.

I like Gene Bourque (I'm assuming its Gene in this case but I could VERY well be wrong). I respect him and think he's a nice guy but as an editor, he has just had an article published that will generate a lot of buzz where someone else will take the hit and the maggies will move a bit better on the shelf...

As for Steve - I doubt he knew what would come of this. He is not online and has little concept of what it is like on the 'net, I don't think he even owns a computer. But I would hate to see him made out unfairly as the bad guy in all of this as he is always helping out people, new and old to the sport. He is someone that does this, not for the coin, but to give a little back that he has earned over the years. He is always giving out help at the shop he works at, when you see him at the wall in spring, or when he runs across a newbie angler - he is always offering some advice. So please don't trash him personally - and keep in mind he can't defend himself here.

In my oprinion this article might not be the wisest choice for doing that, but I can tell you that I don't think it would be malicious... I have not read the article yet so I can't completely guage how it was but if it was as detailed and burning as it seems, then he was wrong for writing it. So argue the point but don't personally attack him on this, again - ARGUE the point.

I would also hate to see a lot of people that have chased spots, people, and reports throw Steve under the bus for what he wrote. I would also hate to see people that have praised his seminar and gladly soaked up that info or those that have seen him in the shop jump on him personally about it. Instead, jump on the culture that pushes this....

Originally Posted by fishaholic18

You're right! More incentive for them to write about spots.
The mighty $$$$

Dave - I don't think the paltry amount he got paid entered his thinking very much. It won't pay for gas for a month to fish those spots. It is more incentive for the Maggies to encourage it though. 'Course, this raises another question - how much is it worth in dollars to lose access to a spot that can't handle much public pressure? What is the price tag on a spot?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by PNG

WoW - what is that guy thinking
The only thing missing are the 8x10 color glossy photo's, hand drawn will just have to do.

Why did he do it?

Speculations;

Axe to grind with someone or thing?
Doesnt realize what he did?
Doesnt care?
Why did the editor let that get out?

Better install a deli counter number machine... "Spot open for number 74, anyone got 74?"

I think it was: Doesn't realize what he did.

Why did the editor let that get out? Hmmmmmm

Originally Posted by MartinD18

Zeno - PERFECT!!! oh the horror, the horror... a fishing magazine that tells people where to fish. And at such "secret" spots too (!!!!).

There has been a trend for spots, spots, spots, in maggies. I have talked to people that write for both maggies and they are encouraged to do spots - yes, that sells, but what about spots that can't handle the pressure? Is OTW or the Fisherman's profit more important than the loss of access?