Oct. OTW

[*LB]

I don't post much here, but since I live and fish in SoCo I thought I'd throw my two cents in on this topic. I used to wonder why I'd show up at a spot to fish and find it suddenly packed with guys who weren't there the day before, especially since the fishing had been slow. I started to figure out that there was some kind of communication network that I wasn't paying attention to (internet and print) and spots were being "burned". At first I'd get pissed there was some guy on "my rock" and I'd bitch to myself about the Massachusetts plates on all the trucks . . . but I'd eventually get over myself and go find another place to fish (I hate crowds). Eventually it led me to fish in places that were difficult to get to, not impossible, just inconvenient and sometimes uncomfortable. Throw in some darkness, bad weather and big waves and I rarely even see other people when I'm out now. I don't think my new spots are any better than the old ones, but the fact that I'm not crossing lines with the "bucket & lantern" crowd and I'm putting in some extra effort to fish beyond the "easy" spots makes the whole experience more enjoyable to me. When I go out tonight it will be not too far from some well-known spots, but just far enough that I'll work up a good sweat from trudging through soft sand in my cheapo neoprene waders to get there, and I'll probably be soaked from the rain as well. I'll have to wade thirty yards out to "my rock" and hopefully I won't take any waves over my waders on the way out (the wade out is always a pain in the ass, but I don't feel like such a jerk for calling it "my" rock when I finally get out on it). Chances are there won't be another soul in sight, despite the fact that conditions should be excellent. If I happen to spot the silent red blink of a fellow striperman's headlamp I can be certain that he's not worried about his spot being burned either.

I haven't read the OTW article (although I'm tempted to now), but it doesn't surprise me. If you fish a public spot with reasonable access and half-way decent fishing it's only a matter of time before the spot is burned. I think the same spots have been getting burned over and over for years . . . but then people forget and move on the next "hot spot" and around it goes. I don't think the public spot burners do anyone a favor in the long run, including themselves, but it's an inevitable part of the scene.

The googans who chase spots they read about on the internet or in a magazine usually don't know what to do once they get there anyway. Just think about how long it takes to really understand fishing from a single rock at a single spot. It can take a whole season of fishing a particular spot before you realize what it takes to catch anything other than a lucky migratory schoolie. Mr. Googan is going to get discouraged soon after he realizes that the black stuff on the rocks is slippery and that standing around in soaking wet jeans gets pretty cold after a while. He wonders why he hasn't seen or caught a fish in the whole two hours he's been there, even though the sharpie magazine writer said they pull'em outta that spot hand over fist. Eventually he leaves in disgust, but not before throwing his box of mackerel chunks and empty beer cans in the bushes (he doesn't want to smell up his truck, after all). The final insult is the old guy who yells at him for pissing in his backyard on the way out. No way he's putting up with this SoCo crap again, he hears they're bangin' 'em on the Cape anyhow, maybe he'll head up there next weekend . . .

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by *LB

I don't post much here, but since I live and fish in SoCo I thought I'd throw my two cents in on this topic. I used to wonder why I'd show up at a spot to fish and find it suddenly packed with guys who weren't there the day before, especially since the fishing had been slow. I started to figure out that there was some kind of communication network that I wasn't paying attention to (internet and print) and spots were being "burned". At first I'd get pissed there was some guy on "my rock" and I'd bitch to myself about the Massachusetts plates on all the trucks . . . but I'd eventually get over myself and go find another place to fish (I hate crowds). Eventually it led me to fish in places that were difficult to get to, not impossible, just inconvenient and sometimes uncomfortable. Throw in some darkness, bad weather and big waves and I rarely even see other people when I'm out now. I don't think my new spots are any better than the old ones, but the fact that I'm not crossing lines with the "bucket & lantern" crowd and I'm putting in some extra effort to fish beyond the "easy" spots makes the whole experience more enjoyable to me. When I go out tonight it will be not too far from some well-known spots, but just far enough that I'll work up a good sweat from trudging through soft sand in my cheapo neoprene waders to get there, and I'll probably be soaked from the rain as well. I'll have to wade thirty yards out to "my rock" and hopefully I won't take any waves over my waders on the way out (the wade out is always a pain in the ass, but I don't feel like such a jerk for calling it "my" rock when I finally get out on it). Chances are there won't be another soul in sight, despite the fact that conditions should be excellent. If I happen to spot the silent red blink of a fellow striperman's headlamp I can be certain that he's not worried about his spot being burned either.

I haven't read the OTW article (although I'm tempted to now), but it doesn't surprise me. If you fish a public spot with reasonable access and half-way decent fishing it's only a matter of time before the spot is burned. I think the same spots have been getting burned over and over for years . . . but then people forget and move on the next "hot spot" and around it goes. I don't think the public spot burners do anyone a favor in the long run, including themselves, but it's an inevitable part of the scene.

The googans who chase spots they read about on the internet or in a magazine usually don't know what to do once they get there anyway. Just think about how long it takes to really understand fishing from a single rock at a single spot. It can take a whole season of fishing a particular spot before you realize what it takes to catch anything other than a lucky migratory schoolie. Mr. Googan is going to get discouraged soon after he realizes that the black stuff on the rocks is slippery and that standing around in soaking wet jeans gets pretty cold after a while. He wonders why he hasn't seen or caught a fish in the whole two hours he's been there, even though the sharpie magazine writer said they pull'em outta that spot hand over fist. Eventually he leaves in disgust, but not before throwing his box of mackerel chunks and empty beer cans in the bushes (he doesn't want to smell up his truck, after all). The final insult is the old guy who yells at him for pissing in his backyard on the way out. No way he's putting up with this SoCo crap again, he hears they're bangin' 'em on the Cape anyhow, maybe he'll head up there next weekend . . .

Good post - the only thing that really scares me is the last couple sentences - and that's what it boils down to for me in most cases, usually some recent land owner that has little tolerence or respect for public access and its hard to blame the person when Joe Twelve Pack has crapped on the yard and left the empties and bait wrappers. Sure that is a generalization but not too far from the truth...

[piemma]

John, you and LB are both right and that's what I think most of the irate surf guys are pissed about. It's not that some nitwit in jeans with a white bucket and a 6 pack is going to catch all the fish, it's the traffic that will be created by the spot being published. Yeah, a lot of us know that there hasn't been any good fish at the A-frame in years. The point is that if 50 guys show up there then there will be problems with trash, parking, noise etc.
That's the biggest problem with spot burning. Personally, I know that they won't "catch all the fish". No one has for 1000 years. it's the public perception that will be created by the nitwits.

[THEGHOST2]

you should all go back and read the article again this time pay attention to what steve is telling u and maby just maby u to can start catching fish to. Stop whining and start takeing notes u might learn something from the man. slamming a man for trying to help YOU catch more fish by shareing what he knows is pretty sad .STOP FLAPPIN START FISHING

[hunan]

welcome to the board ghost. strong words for your first post don't you think? not knocking steve's fish-catching abilities but there are more than a few guys on this board who also put up pretty impressive numbers time and time again. they don't need any how-to or where-to knowledge, because they've earned it!

[BigFish]

I think the Ghost is someone from this board who does not have the nads to state that himself....first post?

[Karl F]

Well, Well, Well...
My intention was not to Slam the author, I am sorry if my 2 previous posts suggest that. I am just saying that he was too explicit, and his editor shouldn't have let it go that far, seeing as I have learned through this thread it was Steve's second article. Never met Steve, but have heard of his reputation, kinda surprised he'd be so explicit.... spots, location, whatever... my primary issue has been, and always will be access, seen way too much of it lost in my lifetime, and I'm just under 50.
Anytime something like this comes out, and FD's Hotspots is a good example, although it is a 20 YO book written about fishing 30 years ago, most of it still rings true, and the impact of that book has gone on ad nauseum ever since.
But, anything to increase traffic, illegal parking, due to overcrowding, litter, etc, some can joke about it, but litter, bugs the hell out of me, and people in high dollar shorefront RE, that hate it even more. Those folks pay a premium in RE tax, so when they start calling and complaining, selectmen, PD's, etc. they are all ears.
Consider the impact before you publish, and yes Bill, I will be sending a wordy email, or snail mail to OTW...

John, sorry for the alley fight, not my intent, you wanna pull the plug, or lock this, go ahead....

[tattoobob]

I am from north shore in Mass and I fish So.Co. in the fall, why? because 1) I want to extend my season, and 2) the chances of catching a trophy is great. now with that said, I fish about 7 different spots that I learned from other's. now there is no way I like to show up at some B-way and find 5 guys out of 12 wearing sneakers and not doing what everyone else is doing Ie rotation. I don't want to go down and land there fish or release it. I want to fish. but if you don't help them there going in the water. usually when I see this I go fish the beach or look for another spot. I don't like to drive for 2 hrs. and find 25 guys at a spot I planed on fishing at midnight. I guess what I am saying is "Lose lips sinks spots"

Rhody has an access problem as it is and putting it in writing is not right
it is the magazine's fault for publishing it not the writer,

This is in no way a bashing of Steve just my opinion on spot burning

[Redsoxticket]

Since this thread of OTW is receiving many reviews by fellow members, I would like to introduce an idea that will contribute to good fishing edicit.

I would like to see the tackle shops post in there shops a note stating "please do not litter". There should be a few other choice words in there such as "or access will be closed".

More importantly is that it should be in other languages.

I will be willing to put something together but I need your help.

1) Appropiate phrase but not offensive to anyone.

2) Translate to languages such as spanish, asian, etc. english if course.
By having other languages will get more respect from the people that
speak and read that language

3) Graphic design like a catchy border maybe flags.

I choose to introduce this idea of this thread because I know a seperate thread with no introduction will get lost to the bottom in a short while. Action should be taken soon.
I will be creating a seperate thread (Fishing access maybe closed "No Litter") for this but I will not want to do it alone and I need your help.

The final draft can then be on this web site for you to give to your B & T.

[Roger]

Wow. It’s amazing how much was written about an article that most seemed not to have read or gone to the seminar.
The irony is that this thread has probably significantly focused attention on the article and increased sales of OTW. IOW, your attention to this has helped burn those spots. Actually, there are even a couple references to other spots that were not mentioned in the article.
The hypocrisy is that many responders learned of “their spots” by being told, mentored on fishing them or followed seasoned fishermen by “noticing which vehicles were always there”, etc. This article is simply a matter of degree. Is it envy that those that considered themselves the privileged few are no longer as privileged as they wish they were? I hope not.
The reality – Steve wrote of 5 spots from Westport to almost Connecticut. That’s it, just 5 spots. If one of those very public spots is one you’ve been learning all season, you need to broaden your horizons. Fishing the same spot all the time? All season? I sort of feel sorry for anyone truly in that position, but whose fault is it for being a one trick pony?
For those that read the articles or went to the seminars they would have noticed that he also told how to fish these spots – GASP! Except that his first rule, and one repeated is that you need to fish at night for big fish. Is this going to be a problem? I know I run into lots of googans in the summer during daylight, but very few as the weather gets colder, and almost none at night. I rarely even see another fisherman late at night. If a fella shows up for a 3am tide after having walked 20 minutes in soft sand, I’m pretty confident that he’s serious about the sport and, if a newbie, willing to learn and work together. I don’t have a problem with that, and suspect that most here wouldn’t either.
Same thing with the access (which IMO, is the most important issue). Most of the spots have a ton of mixed use parking and/or a bit of a walk. Anything more than a hundred feet of walking and most googans are not interested. That leaves real fishermen. At night they are few and far between. I don’t have a problem with that either.
My point to all of this is that, like all other spots written about, it won’t amount to much of anything. It seems like the only spot burning that creates problems are spot/activity reports like “30 pound bass are being caught at X.” But even then, my experience is that it only affects fishing at X for a couple of weekends, and usually the bite has died then anyway.
That’s my 2 cents, which is probably only worth half that.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by THEGHOST2

you should all go back and read the article again this time pay attention to what steve is telling u and maby just maby u to can start catching fish to. Stop whining and start takeing notes u might learn something from the man. slamming a man for trying to help YOU catch more fish by shareing what he knows is pretty sad .STOP FLAPPIN START FISHING

Jim - I realize you and I are talking about you becoming a sponsor here on S-B but I do encourage open discussion. Knowing Steve for a few years and knowing how nice he is, good he is, and how much he's trying to give back to the community, a few years ago, he might have flipped if some spots are mentioned, and one or two today as well. While I don't want people slamming Steve, the topic is open to discuss. I'm not going to stop that.

You are pretty tight lipped about where you fish and while you write articles about all over the bay in your boat (good ones too), you don't publish GPS numbers of your favorite locales.

Maybe the difference is in the balance. Steve would hate seeing certain places talked about and Steve would hate seeing certain people in certain places at certain times. And Steve would really hate to see some places crushed by an onslaught of inconsiderate people - like all of us that give a damn about it...

So come in and discuss this of you want, and yeh, there is occasional whining. But there is a big can of worms when people talk spots. I imagine you'd be pissed if someone started popping your GPS numbers in articles too...

Originally Posted by BigFish

I think the Ghost is someone from this board who does not have the nads to state that himself....first post?

Larry - your assumption is incorrect....

[TheRattBoy]

In almost every issue of OTW they burn freshwater spots maps, directions , parking...ect. This is nothing new.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Jim - I realize you and I are talking about you becoming a sponsor here on S-B but I do encourage open discussion. Knowing Steve for a few years and knowing how nice he is, good he is, and how much he's trying to give back to the community, a few years ago, he might have flipped if some spots are mentioned, and one or two today as well. While I don't want people slamming Steve, the topic is open to discuss. I'm not going to stop that.

You are pretty tight lipped about where you fish and while you write articles about all over the bay in your boat (good ones too), you don't publish GPS numbers of your favorite locales.

Maybe the difference is in the balance. Steve would hate seeing certain places talked about and Steve would hate seeing certain people in certain places at certain times. And Steve would really hate to see some places crushed by an onslaught of inconsiderate people - like all of us that give a damn about it...

So come in and discuss this of you want, and yeh, there is occasional whining. But there is a big can of worms when people talk spots. I imagine you'd be pissed if someone started popping your GPS numbers in articles too...


Larry - your assumption is incorrect....

Speaking of incorrect assumptions, Ghost2 is Justin the son... So Justin, please keep it open to a discussion - thanks....

John