Oct. OTW

[jimmyCT]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Steve is my partner and best friend, I cant sit here and see you rip the guy apart for something you all know you want SPOTS ! The spots he talks about are very well known and in now way "secret" or more importantly PRIVATE.

They all have public access and public parking and are for the most part already over crowded, I think his thought process on this was whats the difference? if there are going to be a hundred guys at a spot , they may as well at least fish it right. Sure some people are going to get pissed off, pile on the crap, look cool by saying what a spot burner he is etc, etc, etc..

Does he fish these spots anymore? nope, very rarley, would he have mentioned them 10 years ago? no way in fact he was pushed out long ago from overcrowding, you may occasionaly see him at the river but thats it.

The number one question he gets asked in the baitshop is about spot, 24/7 all people want to know is spots, spots, spots... So he gave them some, as for the kowledge he gave, If your smart, you would read it 10 times and apply what he has written, you may just get yourself a dream fish, If I was new I would take it as a blessing, you may end up shaking his hand.

So if your this unhappy and dramatic over this then be straight up and go see him at the shop and tell him to his face, stop knocking the guy on the internet when he has no defence here as he does not have a computer.

Steve has helped many people improve there fishing, he is nothing but helpfull at the shop, and does whatever he can to better someones experiance on the water....Lay off and take a time out , I think you will all see that those are spots that every googan with a surfstick has already fished... Its crap like this overblown thread that make me stay away from the boared

It also makes me sick that some of these people will smile to his face and then rip him here you, know who you are.

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, dont know you are.. Can tell you are someone who has been fishing the surf a long tim and pretty intelligent. I like reading what you write on this site and your one of the few guys I will take the time to read. .Stuff is well thought out..

okay..

is this something really that new about on the water writing articles about locations? Isnt that what they have always been doing but yet, poor Steve gets the blame? Out of all the people to complain about, why start with someone who has helped some many people on this site out? Give him a call or something if you feel so strongly about it..

On the water also publishes a shore guide to rhode island, its advertised in all their magazines. I blelieve Joe Lyons and some other names were contributing authors. Its covers alot more then the daingault guide.

On the water also has weekly fhsing reports available online...

Why just blame on the water though, there is the fisherman magazine. Also, there are about a dozen newspapers that give out weekly reports too...

There are tackle shops. Some list hot spots on their websites and give daily reports. Some other shops wont readily give out spots, but if you drop 50 on a new reel and tell them you will buy more gear if you start catching fish, they will start singing.

Why even blame public sources of information. Its not hard to log onto here and get a dozen emails of hot spots to fish. That actually goes along way, people tell other people, they tell other people.... It goes on and on. I can tell you where Steve Mc fishes and so on from about the 5th person down the ladder on a random screenname I made up.. I hear alot about putting in time to catch fish, but yet, the information is still just as available to newbies.


I generally agree about posting locations. Ive definately had some bad experiicnes from it, and learned not to mention spots limited in parking access or by private property. Even the best of intentions can go wrong in some types of spots. Most of those issues though have bene resolved but its not something worth going through again. What seems to happen is you get a crowd that will come in and it takes a week or more for it to disapear. Most of the people who come, are people who dont catch a lot of fish on their own, and then, dont have the skills to catch fish, and then give up. I feel this is what will happen with Steves article. One article does not make a fishermen catch fish.


As of now, I have more problems the amount of disregard I see toward fellow anglers. I feel these types of threads are what brews up a lot of this attitude and the world would be a lot better without the itnernet fishing sites. I keep hearing stories from fellow anglers about people who get harassed by others. One example is when a person, say one of the top posters on this site, starts intentionally casting over someone elses line just so he can push the person away. I see stuff like this and just have no respect for anyone anymore. Its just happening way to much and to do many people and feel a big part of it resides here and that if you want people to abide by your wishes, you better not tick off your fellow fishermen.

What Id like to hear are some personnel expericnes from someone whos "spot" got burned. Someone mentioned stories from 1999 but I cant seem to find any old reports and the person only registed in 2000 for the site. Can someone link in some old topics, thanks.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by jimmyCT

is this something really that new about on the water writing articles about locations? Isnt that what they have always been doing but yet, poor Steve gets the blame?

On the water also publishes a shore guide to rhode island, its advertised in all their magazines. I blelieve Joe Lyons and some other names were contributing authors. Its covers alot more then the daingault guide.

On the water also has weekly fhsing reports available online...

Why just blame on the water though, there is the fisherman magazine. Also, there are about a dozen newspapers that give out weekly reports too...

There are tackle shops. Some list hot spots on their websites and give daily reports. Some other shops wont readily give out spots, but if you drop 50 on a new reel and tell them you will buy more gear if you start catching fish, they will start singing.

Why even blame public sources of information. Its not hard to log onto here and get a dozen emails of hot spots to fish. That actually goes along way, people tell other people, they tell other people.... It goes on and on. I can tell you where Steve Mc fishes and so on from about the 5th person down the ladder.. I hear alot about putting in time to catch fish, but yet, the information is still just as available to newbies.


I generally agree about posting locations. Ive definately had some bad experiicnes from it, and learned not to mention spots limited in parking access or by private property. Most of those issues though have bene resolved but its not something worth going through again. What seems to happen is you get a crowd that will come in and it takes a week or more for it to disapear. Most of the people who come, are people who dont catch a lot of fish on their own, and then, dont have the skills to catch fish, and then give up. I feel this is what will happen with Steves article. One article does not make a fishermen catch fish.


As of now, I have more problems the amount of disregard I see toward fellow anglers. I feel these types of threads are what brews up a lot of this attitude and the world would be a lot better without the itnernet fishing sites. I keep hearing stories from fellow anglers about people who get harassed by others. One example is when a person, say one of the top posters on this site, starts intentionally casting over someone elses line just so he can push the person away. I see stuff like this and just have no respect for anyone anymore. Its just happening way to much and to do many people and feel a big part of it resides here and that if you want people to abide by your wishes, you better not tick off your fellow fishermen.

What Id like to hear are some personnel expericnes from someone whos "spot" got burned. Someone mentioned stories from 1999 but I cant seem to find any old reports and the person only registed in 2000 for the site. Can someone link in some old topics, thanks.

Before I say anything, I'll state again that I still haven't seen the article. This also more of a general post as opposed to a direct response to what I quoted.

As a shop that puts out a report, we're always very careful about spot burning. To me, there's a very fine line that separates putting out a helpful report and pissing people off . If I say "Brenton Point has had good fishing on Pencil Poppers at sunrise", it's still a very general description, especially since that good fishing at that moment probably won't last. Even if it brought 6 people down there, I'd probably still be able to fish my spots during the day and without question once it got dark. If I named a specific spot on Brenton, complete with where to stand, that would be dangerous, in particular if I stated how, when, etc. I get heated if I find somone on one of my prefered spots, mostly because no one is normally there. If that particular spot I stand on got burned I'd be a long time getting over it.

Take a look at the OTW Shore Guide's description of Brenton. It's actually VERY vague and the map doesn't even point to a lot of the best spots.

Most of our reports list several very general locations, with some specifics such as what to use or any tricks we've noticed running charters in the past week. Short of tracking down our boats or the guys fishing from shore, you're not going to figure it all out but it will point you in the right direction.

And that is what I think has everyone so excited. Specific rocks within spots. Again, I STILL haven't seen this article, but if that level of detail is included it would concern me. I guarantee our email box would be full and the phone would be ringing with angry people if we ever went into that sort of detail.

I've been stalked before, people think that since you work in a tackle shop you MUST know what's going on at all times...

I've encountered people in the dark while fishing and found them there a few days later. It's rare, but it's happened. Sometimes they move, sometimes they don't. Either way I get irritated. Hiking a mile to find my spot occupied tends to do that.

[Pete_G]

One more thing about spots:

Someone probably knew about your "secret" spot or a spot you consider "yours" before you. I'm really don't think there any "new" spots being discovered. Just spots that have become hidden over time or are such a long walk to reach it discourages people from going.

People love to say "my" spot but it really doesn't mean much.

[choggieman]

Ctjimmy - we know each other, don't we? You want examples...How many breachways will have a few extra lanterns for the fall run this year? How many times will the increase in trash be evident this year. You kow the spot I have had beef with you over on your site ctfisherman. You know the spot that krispy is taking exception to posting over. Both spots have seen an influx of new faces and lots of these new faces aren't upstanding fishermen like yourself. Public access is not a problem at the spot you and I battled over, but the trash, the poaching-herring and undersize fish, and the general disreguard of these new faces for what we have is deplorable. The spot krispy is angered over is subject to loss of access at a moments notice and the disreguard for that place is running rampant. When we give super explicit details to anyone with a computer or anyone who can read a magazine, we suffer. How would you like it if I followed you a couple of nights with my camera and ensured that every person that ever picked up a rod and reel knew the spots you fish, when to fish them and what to fish with? You post about public places with access to all, but how about if I made sure everyone knew about the places you fish that you do not post about. Can you see where I am coming from? You could just as easily teach a few solid individuals from the plethora of knowledge you keep, and give back to fellow fishermen that way, instead you choose to post for all to see, including the individuals that are the reason we see the litter and lose access. This article is just like your posts on the other site, and you see the majority of fishermen do not care for spot burning, the way I do not. Yet you keep going.
I could go on and on , and I seem to be picking on you alone, but that article reminded me a battles from the past over to burn or not to burn and your face is one I will never forget.
I apologize if I have mistaken you for someone else.................but I doubt it.

[jimmyCT]

choggie - There are quite a few spots that are provided for public access and are generally common knowledge. If someone is looking for that type of spot, it wont take them long to find one of these public spots. I just listed quite a few ways to find reports and location in my first post.

Im not necessarily saying i support all these sources of information, but Im not going to complain about places like tackle shops giving out information or an on the water article. Its taken me almost 25 years of constant work to use these sources of information to become a better fisherman. Yes, on the water has always had articles like that. Its pretty funny to say, okay, its 2005, you cant do that anymore.

I just feel this is not helping your cause. Do you think that on the water or fishing magazines are going to stop giving out information? You need to pick battles more carefully if you want to keep places quiet. You might not think there are actual private places out there, but if you dont look, you just wont know... Ive brought a few select guys on this board to some private spots, they know

The fact is that alot of spots other then breachways have been crowded. In your case, I believe I rember you complaining about a place (trying not to be to detailed) on the CT river that was overrun with alot of people. Yet, do you remember ever seeing a report or article on that location? It just started by word of mouth by a group of friends.. Am I correct?

Even the breachways, like charlesotwn are not that bad. If I go there on a weekend when its croweded, I just fish the back channels and generally end up with more fish then anyone out front. If I fish the thames river, I go downriver and have areas and unlimited fish to myself. I dunno. Its hard to give examples without naming spots.

I dunno, there is a bit of balance needed and there are more ways then one to make a place crowded. But when you guys start challenging the very basic spots, ability of OTW to write an article about a well known place, you take a step backward in getting the privacy you want. In the scheme of things, Steve Mckennas article will have almost no inpact. The only thing you that was burned was a relationship with a great fishermen, Steve.

If anything, for your own cause... the spots mentioned here so far bring attention to them... Someone reading this is going to think.. If the "breachways" are so great that we have to keep them quiet, then.. obviously its going to be the first spot they want to see.. I dunno.

I just really think this is out of hand. The large majority of decent fishermen out there have no opinon or care about this type of topic. Its just that they wont participate in threads like this, or even in this site. Alot of the best anglers I know wont spend any time on this site because of threads like this. Even guys like #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& have made hints questioning why they would spend time here when its like this. This thread is like the same 30 guys over and over for 10 pages...

Another thing you need to look into is why someone would post a spot, maybe there are reasons out there.... This site has quite a few ill behaved individuals if you encourter them on the water. Its safter to have other people around with these clowns out there.

[Nebe]

THERE ARE LOTS OF FISH ON THE BACK BEACHES OF THE CAPE RIGHT NOW!!!! \\\ LOOK FOR A JEEP AND A TOOTWESS GUY FISHING MENTAL ALL BY HIMSELF>

hehehe

[JohnR]

Hmmm, how to keep this short ????

My biggest concern is not losing access to places to fish and a big part of that is parking. All of the spots in Steve's article have been written several times in the past few years. Maybe not to the detail but they've all been written. They have all been in the reports section of xyz123 website, the fisherman, projo, beacon, times, globe, herald, OTW online, etc. While I think it was not a good idea on Steve's part to write such detailed spot info, he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. He is a decent guy and either did not consider or underestimated the consequences, at least for the spots, but I'm willing to bet he figured he would be helping out people with that article. I'm sure the intention was not to burn spots. My issue is access and the loss of it if everyone is blurbing spots and reports. If people share info, things usually spread a lot more slowly than a big article in OTW. This is where people need to be responsible with access and throwing spots out - regardless who or where its done, is just not that responisble in my opinion. Anyone that tells you they learned every spot on their own is BS'ing. Everyone has learned something from someone or somewhere, including the articles, books, sites, etc.

My point is these things have to be done in balance and done responsibly as it is not worth losing the ACCESS!! That is all the counts, the access. Last year when people we saying go to such and such and there was a ton of fish last night, the next day was busy. A lot of first time to that spot people not knowing how to get in, cutting through yards. Now maybe 1 in 5 were making noise, leaving trash and disrespecting the local, but how many does it really take? How many does it take before the residents go before the local town council (who likely don't care much for the night surf angler) and close the parking? Then a general area is lost, That serves nobody. It's a good short term strategy but it dies in the long term....

Now I want to say one other thing. There are a lot of people jumping personally on Steve on this. That's wrong. He has done nothing any different than another who knows how many people have done over the years. So don't make Steve out to be the bad guy. This might not be one of his brightest moves but he's not a bad guy.

You want to fix the problem? Maybe work on the culture of "spots", how they are handled and reported.

Ok - done for now ...

You could be REAL adventurous parking in one place and biking to another.

[choggieman]

Wrong river, bud. You know where I am talking about.
If someone were to find out about a public spot through research and not hot posts, I would applaud them. Learn from trial and error, not someones big mouth.
Luckily I do have spots I can fish without worry of bumping into people who are there because they read about it on the internet, but the list dwindles with each post and every article.
If I burn a relationship with a great fisherman its because I do so in choice. It is my morals that make me beleive in something and if my best friend and I do not agree on something, then I will stand up for what I beleive.
I have always had respect for Steve Mckenna, to me he is one of the best. But I do not beleive what he wrote was proper for publication. And apparently I am not the only one.

[jimmyCT]

pete - hey, thanks for quoting me. Sorry, wasnt trying to say anything personal toward the saltwater edge, really never heard of it? What town?


I will admit I use to be a spot slut at tackle shops along time ago, before the internet and field guides came out. I bought everything from the shops that put me on fish and ignored ones that failed. I still am loyal to those same shops today, even 15-20 years later, and buy almost all my gear there. I dunno.

[Pete_G]

I definitely didn't take it as a personal attack; when I saw it I just felt like adding to the discussion what my experiences with reports had been.

No offense taken, whatsoever.