Oct. OTW

[Arno]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Confronting the author on this issue would for me seem ridiculous.

Since I was the one who suggested having a sitdown with Mr. McKenna, I'd like to respond to this. If you read my post, you'll see that all I suggested was that maybe talking to him might clear the air and could hopefully prevent future problems. I never suggested a confrontation in the literal sense. Just the opposite in fact. With all the bashing, I believe give the devil his due and let him tell his side of this story. I never met Mr. McKenna (unless I ran across him while fishing and we didn't exchange names), so there's no agenda here so to speak.

Anyway, as someone who loves the sport as much as the next guy, I stand by the belief that we should support one another and if a problem arises, we should go directly to the source and talk it out. Then take it from there, if necessary. But let me quickly point out that many of you guys seem to have a greater stake in this controversy than I do. So the direction you care to go with all of this belongs squarely with you.

[JohnR]

Hmmm, how to keep this short ????

My biggest concern is not losing access to places to fish and a big part of that is parking. All of the spots in Steve's article have been written several times in the past few years. Maybe not to the detail but they've all been written. They have all been in the reports section of xyz123 website, the fisherman, projo, beacon, times, globe, herald, OTW online, etc. While I think it was not a good idea on Steve's part to write such detailed spot info, he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. He is a decent guy and either did not consider or underestimated the consequences, at least for the spots, but I'm willing to bet he figured he would be helping out people with that article. I'm sure the intention was not to burn spots. My issue is access and the loss of it if everyone is blurbing spots and reports. If people share info, things usually spread a lot more slowly than a big article in OTW. This is where people need to be responsible with access and throwing spots out - regardless who or where its done, is just not that responisble in my opinion. Anyone that tells you they learned every spot on their own is BS'ing. Everyone has learned something from someone or somewhere, including the articles, books, sites, etc.

My point is these things have to be done in balance and done responsibly as it is not worth losing the ACCESS!! That is all the counts, the access. Last year when people we saying go to such and such and there was a ton of fish last night, the next day was busy. A lot of first time to that spot people not knowing how to get in, cutting through yards. Now maybe 1 in 5 were making noise, leaving trash and disrespecting the local, but how many does it really take? How many does it take before the residents go before the local town council (who likely don't care much for the night surf angler) and close the parking? Then a general area is lost, That serves nobody. It's a good short term strategy but it dies in the long term....

Now I want to say one other thing. There are a lot of people jumping personally on Steve on this. That's wrong. He has done nothing any different than another who knows how many people have done over the years. So don't make Steve out to be the bad guy. This might not be one of his brightest moves but he's not a bad guy.

You want to fix the problem? Maybe work on the culture of "spots", how they are handled and reported.

Ok - done for now ...

You could be REAL adventurous parking in one place and biking to another.

[SeaWolf]

bloo - unfortunately, if a town puts up trash cans, they need to empty them constantly. people other than fisherman use them and abuse them. fishermen should be responsible and pick up THEIR OWN TRASH! few do and many walk right by garbage in the rocks. sad...

jimmyct - you should know some of what's been talked about here. i've seen you put "x's" yourself on spots, put up mapquests for a location, give detailed explanations on how to fish a spot, have pictures of the spot, and where to cast. what have you really taught that person? how about that group that now fishes there since you have done that? what have they learned? how to read the internet and now come back for more. tackle shops do give out reports and some have changed their reports after being talked to. and, do you really think all of them are truthful? they are in it for the money as they own a biz. when they give a report to a customer, it is usually a thank you for shopping there and come back again. that's business. if you post details up on a spot for 10 of your close friends, guess what, 200 more are lurking those same boards and are now fishing next to you that night. again, what have they learned? to sit in front of their computer and wait for today's "hot spot"? magazines, how old are those reports? a week? month? i care to disagree w/ your interpretation of, "The large majority of decent fishermen out there have no opinon or care about this type of topic.", as we are seeing in this thread just how much it does in fact mean to some. some have never registered before and are for the first time to chime in. some haven't posted in weeks or months and did.

there is a reason it is called fishing and not catching. by posting detailed reports you only are adding to the "catching" part of that phrase for that angler. they may or may not ever learn the "fishing" part of it. they sure as heck will not learn the ethics rules that some have talked about already.

i will help another angler after seeing them a few times and seeing them being unsuccessful. i see them trying to learn. that's different than someone coming down to a spot after reading it on the net.

i think johnr even said one time that this site is to help out anglers to be better fishermen. being better fishermen includes learning how to fish from people that have been fishing for a while or are successful or bring new ideas. not those that post daily reports or detailed maps. as you said jimmy, the maps are out there, do some homework and be that better fishermen.

as far as this thread being too long, i disagree. many, many good points are being brought up and continue to be brought up. one of the points of this thread is to stop the next "steve mckenna" from writing something similar in the future or possibly on a forum. and, again, i am not trying to slam steve as i have yet to read the article, i'm trying to stop or ease the idea that detailed reports and detailed spots are not a good thing for our sport.

now, since some have mentioned access as an issue, 2 foods for thought. 1st, do you know how much public access is available in connecticut? that's an oxy-moron in ct! e extremely thankful for what you have in ri and mass. now, next, how many people here belong to risaa? if you do, dont you know that there is a right-of-way committee? how many are part of it? last time i went, not too many. why dont you help and learn what issues are involved with public access/right-of-ways and help out instead of complaining here when it's taken away.

[ThrowingTimber]

Well said. I owe you a frosty beverage.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Hmmm, how to keep this short ????

Ok - done for now ...

John-

I was just kidding about the length of the posts -- keep 'em coming.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Now I want to say one other thing. There are a lot of people jumping personally on Steve on this. That's wrong. He has done nothing any different than another who knows how many people have done over the years. So don't make Steve out to be the bad guy. This might not be one of his brightest moves but he's not a bad guy.

are you kidding?? Sorry but Steve should be held acountable for his actions. Yes he is a nice guy, yes he has helped alot of guys out including me, but this article of his is just about the worst thing you could do as a surfcaster.. As a local narragansett surfcaster, i feel like he just slapped me right in the face. Steve is the bad guy here John.. the pen is mightier than the sword and there was quite a bit of blood spilled this month. I just lost alot of respect for him and i will tell him that the next time i see him...

The key to a good surfcasting article is to write up a puzzle.. give clues, give suggestions give just enough to get the reader jazzed and most importantly steer the reader to come to his own conclusions on how to fish an area......

What he did is more like handing out a treasure map with the keys to the castle, plus the secret handshake....

poor form imo..

[Slipknot]

Eben, the poor form is the 180 you did on this subject
you started out not pissed at all and now you lost respect for him.


What's done is done. Get over it and move on people, maybe we all learned something from this subject. No sense flaming a guy who doesn't even have a computer to defend his actions. Take it up in person.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Eben, the poor form is the 180 you did on this subject
you started out not pissed at all and now you lost respect for him.


What's done is done. Get over it and move on people, maybe we all learned something from this subject. No sense flaming a guy who doesn't even have a computer to defend his actions. Take it up in person.

calling my poor form is poor form on your part..

[Slipknot]

[Backbeach Jake]

You know, from my point of view, I've never fished there and I found that article interesting. I may never visit there, but if I do one day, I'll know at least something. It's a fishing mag, a good one too. What'd ya expect? My spots get mentioned all the time. Crowds 'em up in the daytime, but in the dark of night, not so much damage is done. The only thing that really concerns me is trash. But if our enforcement guys were enforcing, trash would nearly be eliminated with a few hefty fines. I think that I'm babbling now, sorry...

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

You know, from my point of view, I've never fished there and I found that article interesting. I may never visit there, but if I do one day, I'll know at least something. It's a fishing mag, a good one too. What'd ya expect? My spots get mentioned all the time. Crowds 'em up in the daytime, but in the dark of night, not so much damage is done. The only thing that really concerns me is trash. But if our enforcement guys were enforcing, trash would nearly be eliminated with a few hefty fines. I think that I'm babbling now, sorry...

But everyone is supposed to go to the Cape. Rhody is just a postage stamp place with no fish

Eben, what Steve did might be what he was trying to do, right the best article he could. Did it go over the line? Oh yeh - you bet your ass it did. But then be sure to criticise, Joe Lyons, Canalman, Manzi, Pickering, Charlie Soares (he's coughin up a lot as of late), Tim Coleman, and everyone else that has wielded the mighty pen. But be consistent and challenge articles, well written or not, of places that are not "NIMBY" to you. Then, you might as well criticise all the loose lips in Narragansett and SoCo that PM and e-mail spots and reports and access into private places too. It is a phenomenon not just limited to OTW and The Fisherman.

[tattoobob]

I still haven't gotten mine and it is kinda pissing me off I guess the No. shore is the last on the mailing list

[tattoobob]

This is what I know about OTW
I have a friend from Maine a Surfcaster/ Boater and a writer
he contacted OTW to write for them and sent in a piece
the sent it back telling him they want spots and all the
mico details about it

here is what they wrote him: They told me they pay $200 for a major story with pictures and MUST divulge locations, tips and techniques. They wanted micro-details. Not interested in what I had to offer.

I think that the info they want sell mags. and It is OTW's fault for wanting it

[bassmaster]

leave me alone U geeks

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by bassmaster

leave me alone U geeks

Blabbermouth

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

This is what I know about OTW
I have a friend from Maine a Surfcaster/ Boater and a writer
he contacted OTW to write for them and sent in a piece
the sent it back telling him they want spots and all the
mico details about it

here is what they wrote him: They told me they pay $200 for a major story with pictures and MUST divulge locations, tips and techniques. They wanted micro-details. Not interested in what I had to offer.

I think that the info they want sell mags. and It is OTW's fault for wanting it

The writer can say NO. I hope he did.

[Slingah]

those must be some real good spots to cause all this......I'm gonna have to make a trip down there ....after I catch big ones here, then the Cape....then R.I........nevermind... gas is too expensive
seriously....sorry for your loss and hope it does not impact your areas too much.

[bassmaster]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Blabbermouth

i only yap about plugs u freak
eben is gay
have a great day

[lurch]

WOW this is a long thread...wasted a good amount of time reading this. It is funny to see people super pi$$ed at the start of the thread and now folks are calming down.

I honestly do not care about spots because the "googans" (man I hate that term) dont fish in the dead of night, on windy, rain or foggy days; they only fish on weekends and when the sun is shining. The problem is that they usually dont clean up and know how to fish the spot with other people there but if they did everything would be ok by me.

Now I can get back to work.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by lurch

WOW this is a long thread...wasted a good amount of time reading this. It is funny to see people super pi$$ed at the start of the thread and now folks are calming down.

I'm too lazy to hold a grudge

[cheferson]

Threads in 5th place for most views on the site

[piemma]

Originally Posted by cheferson

Threads in 5th place for most views on the site

...and in first place for causing the most aggrevation...

[bloocrab]

Originally Posted by lurch

....I honestly do not care about spots because the "googans" (man I hate that term) dont fish in the dead of night, on windy, rain or foggy days; they only fish on weekends and when the sun is shining......

And on that one weekend they have the tendency to leave more than enough trash. The coastline is so massive that unless a spot is very well-known, it's not missed as much if lost. There are lost-spots out there that would make you drool silly, lost to negligence.

Originally Posted by lurch

....The problem is that they usually dont clean up ......

That's why WE HAVE to CARE about SPOTS....mine, yours, and theirs!!

Seawolf - You're right, when and if there is a trash barrel present, it's normally filled with househould trash. It's a no-win situation, that's the sad truth. I think the "beach/rock clean-ups" are helpful, especially if the local residents see fishermen doing it....but all it takes is that one lazy group who don't even have the decency to use the trash barrel, nevermind take their own trash home...

If you see someone littering while fishing and you don't know how to approach them, I know some of you can be a bit timid - - ....you may want to start the conversation by saying something like this....

"I heard they're going to close this place down. It's under review right now. They are monitoring how clean it's being kept. It sure would be a shame to lose the right to fish here huh?...Yeah, really sucks. I pick up some of the trash from time to time, but it's gonna take more than one person to save this place........have a nice day, and good luck!".....

[Pete F.]

How about another thread on suggestions for good interesting articles that would sell magazines without burning spots.
I myself would rather have seen 4 articles with the same illustrations without locations and more detailed explanations of how to fish breachways, Points, reefs, rocks, etc.
What works and why in the writers opinion with no guarantees.
Then again I liked bassmasters articles.

[whiplash]

It almost seems to me that the folks doing the most bitchin don't even live on the coast. Believe me spot burning impacts folks like me more than you. I grew up on the Cape (cotuit) lived 17 years in Rockport and now live in Mattapoisett. And in my 50 years I've seen criminal amounts of coast shutoff from the tax paying citizens of those communities because of out of town sharpies or googans. The "sharpies " pushing the limits to get to that secret honeyhole and pissing off landowners and cops alike and the googans are just dumb $hits. You guys think it doesn't piss of a local to find all the parking filled by non residents in season or off season or to find a conga line at the mouth of a very productive creek? I've been living with the Boston globe,the herald, fisherman mag. and now on the water all my life . The Herald did a story on Folly cove pier (best whiting hole you've ever seen) back in 87 on a friday by sunday it was no tresspassing with a Rockport cop at the gate in the 70's it was Squaw island in the 90"s too many to count access to the Ipswich river Essex river and the Annisquam . Every body thinks behind Nichols is good better places were shut down. I could go on but I feel my blood pressure going up now. Too much byte space and energy has been wasted on this subject. Give it a rest go fishing and be nice to the locals.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by whiplash

It almost seems to me that the folks doing the most bitchin don't even live on the coast. Believe me spot burning impacts folks like me more than you. I grew up on the Cape (cotuit) lived 17 years in Rockport and now live in Mattapoisett. And in my 50 years I've seen criminal amounts of coast shutoff from the tax paying citizens of those communities because of out of town sharpies or googans. The "sharpies " pushing the limits to get to that secret honeyhole and pissing off landowners and cops alike and the googans are just dumb $hits. You guys think it doesn't piss of a local to find all the parking filled by non residents in season or off season or to find a conga line at the mouth of a very productive creek? I've been living with the Boston globe,the herald, fisherman mag. and now on the water all my life . The Herald did a story on Folly cove pier (best whiting hole you've ever seen) back in 87 on a friday by sunday it was no tresspassing with a Rockport cop at the gate in the 70's it was Squaw island in the 90"s too many to count access to the Ipswich river Essex river and the Annisquam . Every body thinks behind Nichols is good better places were shut down. I could go on but I feel my blood pressure going up now. Too much byte space and energy has been wasted on this subject. Give it a rest go fishing and be nice to the locals.

Whiplash, I see you get the point most of us are making -- loss of access due to these types of articles is the problem -- it's a shame you have to sound so ignorant saying it. Attacking people on this post about whom you have no idea is just that, ignorant.

Now, landowners blocking access to the water in an unconstitutional manner is a whole other topic -- don't get that ball rolling here.

[whiplash]

My point is that the articles will always be there to make money for somebody and that closures are also not always the result of an article. By the way I attacked no one on the board or in these posts but did I get a little close to the bone? What we need to do is insted of just bitching about it -do something . My Boy Scout troop does 3 beach clean ups a year and not just in our town , maybe we need to do the same in some high volumn areas around the area RI the Cape and North and South shores like MBBA does. What about working with the EPO's to moniter problem sites and I don't mean just calling , but meeting with regional managers to set something up formally.If you live on the coast get involved with the public access board in your town or the conservation commissions . BY the way live in a tourist town for a while and you'll find out what ignorance is.

[SeaWolf]

whiplash, you make an interesting point, but one of the biggest reasons for loss of access is that some areas that are state row's are just being overgrown and most do not know about it. before you know it, they are gone and overturned in the state.

another larger, growing problem is that most of the shoreline is beiing bought up by the wealthy of the world. those that do own some of the shoreline houses that were in the family for yeas are being forced out due to high taxes. is that fair? no, but it's happening. and, most of those rich buying the houses on the shoreline are from out of state! they are not locals anymore either. and, they are trying to change town ordinances/laws to allow these same land owners to vote on issues in that town, even tho they are registered in that town. unfortunately, money speaks volumes these days and gets things done.

some of these row's need to be addressed, but very carefully. as you might only get one shot to keep it open, so you need to do your homework well. as i said before, get involved in a group fghting for your right to fish. do your job cleaning up after yourself and others for the good of us all.

[whiplash]

Seawolf you better believe ROWs are a valuble asset to the community. So many land owners especially the new rich that move into sea side communities think that they can block them off . I served 12 years on the Rockport Con Comm and half a dozen times a year we had to deal with the issue of public access. They would fence them off, pile brush. post signs make threats . It got to the point that they started a board just to protect the ROWs. I realize that it's almost impossible for folks who don't live in coastal towns to particpate in protecting these areas but there is a state office for public access that I'm sure would like some help. Its up to us to keep these areas open. Unfortunately when a closure issue comes up at a town meeting the boards know who is a townie and who isn't but numbers sure do impress a town board .

[rwilhelm]

I have not got my issue yet, the suspense is killing me. I wonder if it is lost. Seawolf you bring up a good point - ever look at the license plates driving into C-Town Breachway, almost every plate is from CT or NY.