Too bad Yank's

[beachwalker]

it's cool on this end. i'm just messing about

[ProfessorM]

The end of the season and playoffs are when he shined. If it was not for him and Ortiz they would have been looking in at the playoffs, probably would have been better that way. I am just busting your jewels. I think any fans would like his offense and probably put up with it to get it. True he is a fruitcake but as long as he drives in runs I personally can over look his shenanigans. I know what you are saying I just think differently. Go Celtics BTW that is the name of my boat, Shennanigans. Paul

[Mike P]

Fans are funny. When Clemens first came to NY from the Jays, most Yankee fans were adamant--"he ain't now and he'll never be a 'true' Yankee". For the first year or two, that held.

They started warming to him, and rallying around him, when he drilled Piazza and (unfairly, IMO) got crucified by the Mets fans for it. When he sawed him off in Game 2 of the Series and threw the broken bat in his direction, I think many Yankee fans marked that as the moment he became a true Yankee Because they Mets laid down like dogs after that

He won over the few remaining holdouts when he pitched his guts out in Game 7 against Arizona in 2001, then sat in the dugout with the team while Rivera threw the Series away.

They could warm up to Manny. As much as mgt would like to dump his contract, I doubt they'd want to face him 19 times a year in their own division.

Manny to the Mets? Definitely a possibility, as Minaya is hot for him and he'd fit in better in that loose clubhouse.

Manny to the Yankees? Not a chance

[Arno]

You said, "...but as long as he drives in runs I personally can over look his shenanigans."

There's no question that you're not alone in that thinking. And I am NOT saying those of you who believe that way should be faulted. Not at all. 'Cause if that's the way you feel, then that's that. Period. And as often said, it'd be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything.

However... I think Ramirez brought a new standard to the game. At least in Boston. Boston is where fans put up with the likes of Don Buddin, for example. As someone here on the forum reminded us, even a Boston sportswriter had quipped that the number on his license plate should be "E-7". But as bad as he was, he tried his best. And that, I believe, is what caused some fans to be somewhat forgiving. At least for a while.

Another example is #^&#^&#^&#^& Stuart. The Boston fans gave him the best nickname in baseball. "Dr. Strangeglove." He could hit and he could field. That is, he could field as long as the ball was smacked to either side of him. The harder the better. But if a ball came straight at him, half the time you could forget about it. But the guy tried. The fans loved him when he'd plant the ball over the fence, but they'd boo him when he booted a ground ball. Yet he was a fan favorite. The guy was always giving it his best shot.

Now along comes Manny. A pure hitter. When he's on, he's as good as it gets. No question about it. But up above I mentioned that he brought a new standard to Boston. And I honestly believe he did. Sure, he produced big time. But he also displayed a lack of hustle I never witnessed before in Boston. Maybe here and there, but Manny raised the bar. Notice I'm not referring to his sleeping on the base paths, unfortunately that happens to others as well. (Although Manny probably does that best.)

The fact is the guy is lazy. He flat doesn't hustle. How many times have we seen him lope to first after hitting a grounder? Hell, I remember one time he never left the batter's box. Yet he's still a fan favorite. Hard to figure, because Boston fans weren't known for being tolerant of players who didn't always give it their all.

I think most fans will put up with almost anything except ball players who don't hustle. And for me, that's the ONLY thing I have against Manny Ramirez. In fact, it's funny in a way... because we've all seen Manny hoofing it full speed 'round the bases while the announcers took special note of him running hard. As if a ball player running hard should be something out of the ordinary - and something that should be pointed out. Fact is, for Manny it is.

Anyway, that's my take on Mr. Ramirez. If I was a Red Sox fan AND could choose my left fielder, it'd be someone like a healthy Gabe Kapler for example. The guy plays hard and gives his team mates and the fans 100% all the time. And there are others... that while they don't have the bat that Manny Ramirez has, you can be sure they won't lay down on their team either.

Oh, for the days of Freddy Lynn...

[MoroneSaxatilis]

I am no Manny appologist, I'd just like to put my 2¢ in...

Originally Posted by Arno

The fact is the guy is lazy. He flat doesn't hustle.

These 2 things should probably not be equated. There could be any number of reasons (or bad excuses) for Manny's curious lack of hustle at time. I don't believe laziness is one of them. He routinely shows up at the ballpark early and takes xtra batting practice, etc. It's more likely something like, "Oh sh*t! I didn't make solid contact and get a base hit. I bounced it to the shortstop and he's definately gonna throw me out at 1st anyway." (bad excuse)
As far as lack of hustle in the field goes, we saw too much of it, but I can't think of any particular times when it cost a run, and manny Did lead the majors in outfield assists (no doubt more a product of his quick realease than anything else). we've also seen him crash into more than one wall to try and make a play.

Originally Posted by Arno

If I was a Red Sox fan AND could choose my left fielder, it'd be someone like a healthy Gabe Kapler for example. The guy plays hard and gives his team mates and the fans 100% all the time. And there are others... that while they don't have the bat that Manny Ramirez has, you can be sure they won't lay down on their team either.

Everyone likes Kapler. His teamates, coaches, fans, media. And it's certainly true that he hustles on every play all the time. But the reality of the situation is that a team needs baserunners, RBI and homers. Players like Manny are few and far between in those categories.
I go to between 10 & 20 games per year. I don't wanna be driving home saying, "Well.. it's too bad they didn't score with all those chances they had, but at least they're nice guys who tried really hard!"