Wow -- that last post of mine was very revealing.

[MakoMike]

Mike,
Kudos! I do agree that a lot of the folks around here get waaay too carried away about "spot burning." It smacks of elitism.

[Saltheart]

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got til its gone......

The "elitism" that I see as a trend on the spot burning threads is:

1) people who make money off fishing seem to be in favor of spot burning.

2) people who have no spots of their own to share are in favor of spot burning.

3) people who have put in their time over the years to learn spot and don't fit into category 1 are against spot burning.

I also see a lot of complaining by people in elitist group 1 about people in elitist group 3.

I totally understand people in group 2. They want to fish in places with fish and buying a magazine is easier than humping the shore line for a few years to find their own. However , since they have not put in their time , they don't understand the value of a spot and the implications to access lose of publishing spots in mass media.

[lurch]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got til its gone......

The "elitism" that I see as a trend on the spot burning threads is:

1) people who make money off fishing seem to be in favor of spot burning.

2) people who have no spots of their own to share are in favor of spot burning.

3) people who have put in their time over the years to learn spot and don't fit into category 1 are against spot burning.

I also see a lot of complaining by people in elitist group 1 about people in elitist group 3.

I totally understand people in group 2. They want to fish in places with fish and buying a magazine is easier than humping the shore line for a few years to find their own. However , since they have not put in their time , they don't understand the value of a spot and the implications to access lose of publishing spots in mass media.

I was going to make a point about why I disagree with category 3 but it just isnt worth it anymore.

I have found many spots using topozone.com, google earth and then fianlly mapping software for the closest street areas so I have put my time in but I just dont have time to fish them as much as I want to. Logging onto this site brings me closer to the fishing but with all of the bickering about spots makes me want to stay away...sorry fellas...can we all just get along.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Mike,
Kudos! I do agree that a lot of the folks around here get waaay too carried away about "spot burning." It smacks of elitism.

Elitism has nothing to do with this - it is ACCESS. It is what we will lose. Spots are meant to be shared, how and where is meant to be shared. But shared among PEOPLE not the internet or a magazine or a book. When you read an article about fishing such and such a place, do they tell you to park here but watch out for this? Or be real quiet going down that street? Or don't put your korkers on until you are there? That stuff about spots is not in the article, it is shared by friends or fellow anglers and it is remembered.

BigFish - yes he does go to the meetings and he does spend time with and for the RFA

[piemma]

"1) people who make money off fishing seem to be in favor of spot burning."

True and doesn't seem to make any sense. I would think that if I made money (even a little) on guiding in the surf , I would not want to burn the spots that I made money on.

In the same vain, you certainly don't see any of the charter captains listing GPS and Loran numbers for their "honey holes".
Must be a different mindset with the surf guides.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by piemma

"1) people who make money off fishing seem to be in favor of spot burning."

True and doesn't seem to make any sense. I would think that if I made money (even a little) on guiding in the surf , I would not want to burn the spots that I made money on.

In the same vain, you certainly don't see any of the charter captains listing GPS and Loran numbers for their "honey holes".
Must be a different mindset with the surf guides.

The people writing articles seem to do a lot of burning. I agree, all the boat guides I know are REAL quiet, except the ones that write articles.

Many boat spots are workable by only one boat at a time if you're working them right, which definitely increases the drive for spots to remain hidden.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Elitism has nothing to do with this - it is ACCESS. It is what we will lose. Spots are meant to be shared, how and where is meant to be shared. But shared among PEOPLE not the internet or a magazine or a book. When you read an article about fishing such and such a place, do they tell you to park here but watch out for this? Or be real quiet going down that street? Or don't put your korkers on until you are there? That stuff about spots is not in the article, it is shared by friends or fellow anglers and it is remembered.

John,
I have to respectufully disagee. As far as access goes, here in RI we have CONSTITUIONAL right of access to the water. We have PUBLIC rights of way that are open to everyone, to access the water. We have DEM maintined parking and accessways. I trust the DEM and RISSA's Access Committee to fight for an maintain the public's right of access to the water.

If some members are concrerned that littering might shut doen access at certain locations, nothing is preventing them or their club from putting trash recepticals at those spots and emptying them and maintaining them. Bringing out more trash than you bring is is 1000% more helpful in maintaining access than trashing some writer or magazine that has the temerity to inform the readers.

What I see here is the desire of a few, in the know fishermen, to keep the great unwashed away from their favorite spots. That's why I call it elitism, the in-the-know fishermen against all of the other fishermen. The few trying to keep the many away from a public resource, and in the ling run I think it will prove to be counterproductive.

If the vast majority of fishermen or would be fishermen can't find out where these "spots" are, they will be much less motivated to get involved when the legislature cuts the DEM's funding which is used to keep these access points open. Why should they care if a "spot" is closed down, if they can't get there anyway?

As far as writers and magazines go, first of all let me give eveyone else some perspective. yes I write for seveal magazines, but I don't write about surf fishing. Yes, when I do my weekly reports I will name a "spot" if a tackle shop owner tells me that's where the fish are being caught. But I don't tell people any morre than that's where the fish were caught. All my feature articles deal with boat fishing (that may change due to the input I got from this site in an earlier thread). But I understand where the magazines and writers are coming from. People read the magazines to become better informed about fishing. The where to/how to article has existed and will continue to exist to fill that need. Its what the readers want, that is the vast majority of readers who are attempting to become better fishermen. Yes there are other ways to get the same knowledge, but in today's society a lot of the information comes in the form of reading, and the magazines and their writers fill that need by a large segment of the fishing and wanna be fishermen public.

The more fishermen there are the more funding we can get for keeping access and even expanding it. The more fishermen there are the more we can fight for better fishing regulations. Two things give any interest group power in our society, votes and money. The seaside landowners have us all beat when it comes to money. So the only way we can beat them and keep our sport alive is with more votes, and the only way we can get more votes is by expanding the numbers of fishermen. We can't do that, at leasrt for very long, if no one will tell them where they can fish.

[JohnR]

And I agree to disagree. I don't think it is elitism at all, or necessarily those in the know. YOU don't fish private spots, fortunately for you, you don't have a resident calling the cops because you are fishing a certain hump or canyon.


If I park my truck in an area that can park one or two cars that does not have a no parking sign but then an article has ten cards trying to jam a 2 car spot - that is uneven pressure. But where do you draw the line? Is it one thing to park at Charletown Breachway where there is a huge lot. I really don't care if people fish particular spots but I do care if spots that can't handle a ton of traffic are overwhelmed because of a report or a book or a website. I know, I used to do it here but did not like to see the after effect. I would probably put more dough in my pocket if I did spots up...

Oops - goota go