2005 PIPING PLOVER NUMBERS DOWN

[Squid kids Dad]

B B ..Never liked raccoons either

[Brother Brian]

Me neither. Got two of them this year on my way to the wash and learned a third one a lesson he'll not soon forget courtesy of my 4Runner skid plate. I don't move an inch anymore, I let them decide how its going to turn out.

[Mr. Sandman]

I am with Habs on this one. After speaking with the guy out here who "manages" the beach closings...I am convinced birds or no birds they don't want you out there. The birds are a pawn they are using to keep you off the beach. IMO the birds would do better if there were vehicle traffic! The birds that have done the best are the ones that nest near a busy area where there are lots of traffic and few preditors. The ones that nest in the remote beach areas get nailed by storms or skunks/coons/crows etc.

Why don't they just pick up the birds and MOVE them to NOMANS, MUSKEGET, TUCKERNUCK, MONOMOY or any of the other islands that are for the most part dedicated as a bird scancuary and have few preditors, OR force them to nest elsewhere, chase them away and let them "find" these areas. It is clear to me the system they have in place is not working. Of course it is not THEIR fault or program that is failing, it is the storms that killed them.yeah right.

The beach closings this summer sucked and it was for naught!

[SeaWolf]

i have to say that it was in fact due to high surf this spring and large stroms right during the nesting season that the plovers did have a low productivity rate. this was especially true in mass. ri was hit hard as well, but some sections did very well considering.

sandman, you are partitially correct. you, and others, have to understand who your audience is when you refer to "they". yes, "they" probably do not like see all the beach traffic on the beaches. f&w will do what they need to, not matter if it is "they", "us", or whomever, that power is given to them by the endangered species act. states have to abide by those rules as long as any specie is on that list. it just happens to be the plover. now, who are "they"? "they" are the people that can afford to pay for that oceanside view. "they" can afford to donate towards the funds needed to keep the projects going in their area. "they" donate millions to adubon, green peace, etc. "they" walk the beaches daily and give reports to f&w. we need to beat "they" and you can only do that in numbers and facts. i have personally seen them beaten at their own game. we all have to understand that the birds are here and as long as they are on this list, we have to live by it. organizations such as mbba have done a lot to fight against beach closures. join these types of groups and learn about the bird first.

my one gripe for people that do complain about this is so many do not know the facts, but are quick to complain or voice an unresearched opinion on a board. sandman, you talked to a rep, so you are trying to learn and i respect that or post to "fit in". now, let's change the roles a little. take the cod. this fish is going thru another crash from what i have read and heard. could this fish be put on the endanger species act? who knows. who would have ever fathomed such a thing 100 years ago or several hundred years ago when this country was settled mainly due to cod trade. now, what impact would cod have if it were closed to all fishing? how many would then jump up in arms? how many of us would attend meetings learning the facts and trying to change the opinion of those making that closure statement before flipping out? or, how about the striped bass? what if it crashes again? now, i am only using the cod as an example we all seem to care about and is in fact in trouble.

the plover happens to have an impact on many of us as it is on the same beaches we fish. that could very easily have been any other bird, insect, etc. f&w is doing their job. it's the people that take that job that f&w do to their advantage and try to get all of us permanently off the beaches. that could happen with or w/o the help of the bird, they are just using that right now. everyone has to understand that and who the real enemy is. to simply blame f&w or the plover is naive and selfish thinking.

now, this is my personal experiences. some on the cape could have other real experiences, and i do not mean a sign closing off the beach as your own experiences. i mean attending meetings, fighting for access, challenging the property owners using this bird for their advantages.

[PI guy]

Any creature that decides to nurture it's young at the bases of dunes deserves to die a wet death.

[Raven]

one thing evolution can never explain is the total difference between animal brain equipped with instinct, and the human mind with creative reasoning powers of intellect and devoid of instinct in the strict sense that animals possess it.

[stripersnipr]

Banned on Plymouth Beach: Kite flying within two hundred yards of nesting areas (the whole beach). The kite shadows might make them nervous.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by SeaWolf

take the cod. this fish is going thru another crash from what i have read and heard. could this fish be put on the endanger species act? who knows. .

Then you have been reading outdated materials. The 2003 year class is one of the largest in recent memory and will be big enough to catch starting in 2006 or 2007, depending on the size limits. We are trying to protect as many of them as we can so that we can get several more strong year classes out of them before they begin to get depleted in numbers. If you want to get codfish more help, lobby the MA and NH fishery managers to close the near shore spawning areas from November 15 to Jan. 31st.

[BobT]

Gee.....I'm sorry to hear that. It just makes want to cry.

[NaCl H2O]

Originally Posted by Brother Brian

Me neither. Got two of them this year on my way to the wash and learned a third one a lesson he'll not soon forget courtesy of my 4Runner skid plate. I don't move an inch anymore, I let them decide how its going to turn out.

moron