Epoxy headache

[NIB]

[QUOTE=Professor Moriarty]
Should I be scuffing inbetween primer coats?
Yes I use primer for 2 resons
It acts like a bonding agent for the paint
2 it is sandable so i can fill any little voids or fix any minor imperfections.sometimes I use as many as 3-4 coats of primer most often sanding most of it off.
Should I be scuffing the primer before paint?
Yes I wouldn't call it scuffing.but a light sanding of say 400 grit.freak goes multiple sandings to some 1000 grit paper for a ultra smooth finish.

Should I be scuffing the paint before clear?

No Ull just f-up the paint.I apply the clear right after the paint in the same intervals like 5-10 mins.sometimes 10 mins is too long.the paint will start to set up an thats when u'll get compatibility problems an curling. I found when u work in wet stages u have less trouble. always apply the next coat as soon as it flashes over.

Should I be scuffing the clear before epoxy?

Yes thats the reason for the clear.There's a epoxy how too on the systems three website u need a adobe to download it.very informative.basically u need a finish thats a little rough.for proper adhesion.I'll go very lightly wit a light scotch pad or some very fine 800-1000 grit paper.

You are not saying let a day go by before you add each additional color to get the finished combo are you. I should be able to add all the colors within a few mins. of each other,

Yes a few mins at most.some god awfull things can happen when u spray a day later.By working wet i can use alot of different manufacturers of the same type of spray paint.often not a good Idea when the tack up.

Looks like u didn't let things dry enough.in the end. I have sprayed primer an painted at basically the same time.
I always let em dry completely before epoxy.like 2 weeks.

[Tagger]

When you guys are talkin wet over wet your talkin createx not rattle cans right ? now I got a headache ..

[ProfessorM]

Thanks NIB. I think I am applying the paints the right way, within minutes of each other, but maybe a little too long. I will try to do a little faster. I did however wait a day or so to apply the clear. I did scuff the clear. On the plugs it seems that the paint is firmly attached to the plug but the epoxy has not attached. I know I did wait a few days after clear to epoxy but not a week. I have talked to several now and I hope the future batches will be better. I also know now that I will be doing several things differently and even trying different brands and techniques to find one that will work for me. Thanks all for the input from the people who have paid their dues and doing the dirty work. You have allowed me and hopefully others to shorten the learning curve, save some time and money with your hard earned proven experience. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I know how the listen. I hope I am not the only one benefiting from the banter. Paul

[Canalman]

Uh oh.. now you have to think about film build, floculation, seponification

[Backbeach Jake]

Originally Posted by Canalman

Uh oh.. now you have to think about film build, floculation, seponification

I started painting for the buzz. I also stopped because of it. big words hurt head. So much to learn... Remember putting bait on hook, put hook in water? I think we've gone nuts sometimes. In a good way, of course. Paul, after staring at your photo til my eyes watered, I think that the clear just didn't stick. Not to be a smart-arse any further but sometimes the clear and color are just incompatable. Sometimes the color dries with a slightly oily surface, or is too hard and shiny for the clear to grab. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have all spent millions to cure their clear/color adhesion problems. I seal with a 50/50 Helmsman/mineral spirit solution. Sand with 220 lightly but dull it all. Prime with BIN, sand w/ 320. Blow it off, tack it off. I use "Traditions" acrylic paints from Michaels or ACMoores.(cos it's 48cents on sale) let it dry for 2-3 days so all the water is gone and clear with E-tex. 95 percent of the times this works fine for me. I think that what failures I do have are from inadequet sealing. Water got in the wire hole and came out through the paint, my clear doesn't peel , it all peels. I hope this helps some.

[ProfessorM]

Fred in a nut shell I think you are right on the button. The epoxy did not stick. I was at Mac's today and showed him and he thinks the paint is sticking good. I probably didn't rough up the surface enough. Thanks

[ProfessorM]

You know what the real aggravating part is I let my 5 year old daughter paint some screw ups, to keep her out of my hair. She used regular acrylics from the 10 cent store and a paint brush. It is bare wood there is no primer or sealer and a ton of randomly applied paint. I had some left over epoxy from the batch that sux's and put it on for her. Well you can hit the thing with a hammer and the stuff will not chip or come off. Perfect just like you want. Figures. I think I will go to hand painting with a brush.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by Tagger

When you guys are talkin wet over wet your talkin createx not rattle cans right ? now I got a headache ..

No I was talkin bout cans.Several light coats.Freak did a picture thing of one of his first how too,'s thats how I basically do it.wet to wet an u can spray bout any compatible paint together without problems.Like I can use a krylon white an a rustoleum yellow the some krylon pearl wit some painters touch green on top.The coat it all with helmsmans spar urethane.all different but no problems.If u wait wit that lineup u will have trouble.I think the paint in the cans is much better than the water based stuff in the airgun.It seeems stronger bonds better.I have less liftoff problems as long as i wait.But the airbrush sastify's the artistic side of me.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by NIB

I think the paint in the cans is much better than the water based stuff in the airgun.It seeems stronger bonds better.I have less liftoff problems as long as i wait.But the airbrush sastify's the artistic side of me.

Dammm ,,must have missed that freak post,,, I been doing the rattle can base coat waiting a drying day and then doing the bells and whisels with the airbrush createx with good results .. just can't do it the other way around....."the artist side"

[justplugit]

Called Zinsser one time and they backed up what F.Freak said . When using their primer, shellac based, or oil based, spray your finished coats on within a 1/2 hr for the shellac based or 1 hr with the oilbased to get a good bond .
I like the shellac based as my sealer has some poly in it and is a little on the shiney side.

When using the createx i hit it with the hair dryer between each coat to heat set it, wait 24 hours and epoxy.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by NIB

.Then coat it all with helmsmans spar urethane.all different but no problems.

Is the helmsmans what you use for a clear, the coat you scuff? Then you put the epoxy on right? You also wait 2 weeks before you do the epoxy. What is the difference between the helmsmans's spar urethane and say crystal clear enamal ? Paul

[NIB]

I was doin The Capesams all oil base thing.better paints.the spar stuff will amber so if i wnted white i would use crytsal clear krylon or a rustoleum clear.the results seemed similar

[Tagger]

I had better luck with the Rustoleum painters touch clear... My epoxy went coo coo on the krylon unless i didn't let it vent long enough... Helmans spar varnish is too damm yellow,,,looks like $#%t on a pearl white plug ..

[NIB]

Yea the spar it makes a nice white plug yellow.I have em sittin around a while on some plugs i never epoxied for one reason or another an its just about as strong as epoxy.If it didn't amber I would be usin it for the final coat.