America spying on terrorists without court approval - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

The Dad Fisherman · 12-20-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Just to keep things straight, the Patriot Act gave the President the authority to authorize "emergency" wiretaps without a court order. what you guys really should be arguing about is what constitues and "emergency" and do these wiretaps meet that definition.

I thought that it gave them the right to do the tap without the court order....but they still had to file for a court order within 72 hours of doing it.

I could be mistaken but that was my understanding.

You are right about trying to define an "Emergency" it opens up a lot of grey area

spence · 12-20-2005, 08:12 AM

I've never heard anyone say the Patriot Act gives this power.

The Administration's case is that the Congressional War Powers vote after 9/11 provided the justification, which is a legal slippery slope and the Congressional Dems strongly refute.

-spence

CTSurf · 12-20-2005, 09:38 AM

The two sources at the beginning of this thread cited a NY Times article by a reporter who has written a book. The reporter admitted to holding the article for one year to be printed at the time his book is released. That is IMO, questionable and self serving.

This same article was referred to by Senators as part of the reason they were voting against the Patriot Act.

If you can't trust the source how can you trust those who refer to it? These Senators complain about loosing civil liberties. Who has lost them? What, if anything, have they lost? I don't mind standing in a longer line at the airport. I think the increased screening is worth the wait.

Ultimately, the question is do we feel safer as a result of having the Patriot Act?

Skip N · 12-20-2005, 10:15 AM

So when i go to the airport and they search my luggage and frisk me in public without my permission arent my civil rights being violated? I meen they never called and went to court to get a warrant for that right? Oh wait maybe they do that becuase its in the best interest of our safety and natianal security. Imagine that, someone trying to protect me, how dare they do that!

RIROCKHOUND · 12-20-2005, 10:26 AM

Apples and Oranges Skippy;
In the airport it is Posted what you can and can't do and it is Policy as to what is going to happen; dont like it you dont have to travel; at least you KNOW the policy and KNOW you are being frisked searched... what they were doing is the same thing, except they searched your luggage and frisked you without you knowing.....

There was a good point ranged.. out of 4000 warrants asked for 4 (four) were denied; so why did they bother to do it the WRONG way against the LAW?

spence · 12-20-2005, 10:46 AM

You guys seem to be mixing a lot of issues...this isn't that complicated.

-spence

Skip N · 12-20-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

You guys seem to be mixing a lot of issues...this isn't that complicated.

-spence

Your right its not...When will you get it

MakoMike · 12-20-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

I've never heard anyone say the Patriot Act gives this power.

Then you need to read more.

Dad,

Quote:

I thought that it gave them the right to do the tap without the court order....but they still had to file for a court order within 72 hours of doing it.

Yes that's right.

spence · 12-20-2005, 01:36 PM

Source? Trust me, I've read plenty

-spence

piemma · 12-20-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

Source? Trust me, I've read plenty

-spence

Christ, I thought you were on the road. It was nice and quiet till you, obviously, got home.

MakoMike · 12-21-2005, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

Source? Trust me, I've read plenty

-spence

The Patriot act itself, if you read it you'll find the provision.

MoroneSaxatilis · 12-21-2005, 08:15 AM

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily...5/a01lo280.htm

Pete_G · 12-21-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoroneSaxatilis

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily...5/a01lo280.htm

It's disturbing that they have no idea how the gov't got that info.

spence · 12-21-2005, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakoMike

The Patriot act itself, if you read it you'll find the provision.

I actually read it when it first was released...don't see anything now either...

Can you cite a specific provision?

I'd also note that I've not heard Gonzales cite the PA in his defense, but rather the broader war powers granted just after 9/11 to use force against terrorists.

-spence

CTSurf · 12-21-2005, 09:34 AM

Clinton's executive order 12949 and Carter's executive order U.S.C 1802-1804 both provided for the ability to execute searches and wiretap w/out a court order.

So, it is not just Bush that had this authority.