State of the Union address

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea Skippy, blame us. We're the ones in the Whitehouse not offing any real solutions to the Nation's problems

-spence

Not blaming anyone. I figured this thread would have some good debates about some important issues. But as usual alot of the guys on who have posted (not all) have gone to the usual Bush cant read, Bush is stupid crap. At least add something to the debate!

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Raven

a debate.........
lets bash some bush

Nah lets bash some Cindy Sheehan instead....

[spence]

They both could use a few smacks if you ask me...

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

They both could use a few smacks if you ask me...

-spence

Sheehan certainy has the right to protest all she wants...But, that was the wrong place and time for what she tried to pull. Wish she would just go back and hang with her new anti american budy Hugo C. in Venezuala (sp?)

And W's speech....Not one of the most inspiring he's ever given and not much we havent heard before. Most State of the Union speeches are the same with all presidents. Just alot of generic stuff.Nothing new we havent debated on here ove the past year.

[chris L]

just to set it straight for me anyways .
I dont trust or like the dems , reps , indepen , green party , blue party and black sunday . They all lie and want their names in history . it doesnt matter who is in office to be a politition you have to be crooked .

just thought I would add this
Massenvernichtungswaffen means weapons of mass destruction or translates too mass destruction weapons

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by chris L

just to set it straight for me anyways .
I dont trust or like the dems , reps , indepen , green party , blue party and black sunday . They all lie and want their names in history . it doesnt matter who is in office to be a politition you have to be crooked .

just thought I would add this
Massenvernichtungswaffen means weapons of mass destruction or translates too mass destruction weapons

Jawohl herr Feldwebbel....

OK Skip, I won't go into the balance for or not for going into war but how about the prosecution of the war and the time period leading to it?

How about when going to war was a "last resort"? BS, it was not a last resort, it was GO IN NOW as the time for a land based mobile campaign to Baghdad was EXPIRING for at least 6 months. It was a time table that if you were going to do it you had to and if not you were on a 6 month to 12 month (actually 10-11 month initially) interval for when a land campaign was most feasible.


How about when the Army Chief of Staff says you will need HUNDREDS of thousands of US personel to secure a postwar Iraq? A PROFESSIONAL soldier, in charge of the army, being overruled by the political appointies and poli-theorists. Or ignoring and not consulting with the senior Army leadership from Bosnia/Serb canpaings/peacekeeping, or General Garner from his experience with the Kurds after GW1? Or the countless other people - professionals - that disagreed with the administration on how to prosecute the war and prosecute the peace. IMO, Bush (and clan) is a war criminal in that he let DOWN his warriors that were going to the mat for his policy and our freedoms. They have suffered the most.

I won't go into tax breaks for Big Oil - that don't need it while gouging at the pumps. I won't go into the memos on tourture. Or Tax Breaks for the ueber - wealthy. Or lack of a real energy policy that gives us technological growth and foreign policy freedom, or realiastic view on the environment (google the article on how the last 5 heads of EPA, Dem and Repub, are saying how he is effing up by the numbers).

I won't go into financing government debt by China. We've had our nuts in a vise with the Middle East due to our feeding at the hand of Saudi Oil and in addition, now we have our Foreign Policy nuts in a vice with China because they own so much of our debt.

And I need to support this guy? Bull Scheize! I ain't voting for Hillary - I can tell you that, but I thank God their are only two terms allowed. I feel sorry for the one that needs to clean up the mess....


Sorry for the Rant...

[RIJIMMY]

That was a good rant John!

[Springtides]

but it is the best one there is. I missed the speech but was attending a rally for a candidate who will hopefully help change the majority makeup of the US Senate. That in my opinion will help. Checks and Balances.....

[Katie]

Originally Posted by kippy

Well spoken flap..I agree..the worst President in a long time.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Jawohl herr Feldwebbel....

OK Skip, I won't go into the balance for or not for going into war but how about the prosecution of the war and the time period leading to it?

How about when going to war was a "last resort"? BS, it was not a last resort, it was GO IN NOW as the time for a land based mobile campaign to Baghdad was EXPIRING for at least 6 months. It was a time table that if you were going to do it you had to and if not you were on a 6 month to 12 month (actually 10-11 month initially) interval for when a land campaign was most feasible.

How about when the Army Chief of Staff says you will need HUNDREDS of thousands of US personel to secure a postwar Iraq? A PROFESSIONAL soldier, in charge of the army, being overruled by the political appointies and poli-theorists. Or ignoring and not consulting with the senior Army leadership from Bosnia/Serb canpaings/peacekeeping, or General Garner from his experience with the Kurds after GW1? Or the countless other people - professionals - that disagreed with the administration on how to prosecute the war and prosecute the peace. IMO, Bush (and clan) is a war criminal in that he let DOWN his warriors that were going to the mat for his policy and our freedoms. They have suffered the most.

I won't go into tax breaks for Big Oil - that don't need it while gouging at the pumps. I won't go into the memos on tourture. Or Tax Breaks for the ueber - wealthy. Or lack of a real energy policy that gives us technological growth and foreign policy freedom, or realiastic view on the environment (google the article on how the last 5 heads of EPA, Dem and Repub, are saying how he is effing up by the numbers).

I won't go into financing government debt by China. We've had our nuts in a vise with the Middle East due to our feeding at the hand of Saudi Oil and in addition, now we have our Foreign Policy nuts in a vice with China because they own so much of our debt.

And I need to support this guy? Bull Scheize! I ain't voting for Hillary - I can tell you that, but I thank God their are only two terms allowed. I feel sorry for the one that needs to clean up the mess....


Sorry for the Rant...

Bush is a war criminal huh? You just showed your true colors with that comment. You're no different than Cindy Sheehan with that kind of talk. Thats shameful. Hitler,Saddam and those a-holes are War crimminals my friend. Your gonna sit there and tell me Bush sould be lumped in with those murderers??? I have zero respect for you with that comment John. Sorry but thats pathetic. Your entitled your opinion but to go to the war criminal card is pathetic and you know it.

[Skitterpop]

pack of lies

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Bush is a war criminal huh? You just showed your true colors with that comment. You're no different than Cindy Sheehan with that kind of talk. Thats shameful. Hitler,Saddam and those a-holes are War crimminals my friend. Your gonna sit there and tell me Bush sould be lumped in with those murderers??? I have zero respect for you with that comment John. Sorry but thats pathetic. Your entitled your opinion but to go to the war criminal card is pathetic and you know it.

Skippy, read his rant again...

Oh and He's right BTW.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Bush is a war criminal huh? You just showed your true colors with that comment. You're no different than Cindy Sheehan with that kind of talk. Thats shameful. Hitler,Saddam and those a-holes are War crimminals my friend. Your gonna sit there and tell me Bush sould be lumped in with those murderers??? I have zero respect for you with that comment John. Sorry but thats pathetic. Your entitled your opinion but to go to the war criminal card is pathetic and you know it.

I'm sorry if you have zero respect for me and while I wouldn't mind sitting down over a beer or wetting a line, I'm not a fan of your dependent thinking at times.
Bush a true war criminal? IN the sense of Hitler, Milosovich, Saddam and those guys? Abosolutely not. That was a poor choice of words for me (I'm no wordsmith, I guess I'm in good company, but I don't have speechwiters). What I should have said is that the Bush Administration is "criminally negligent" with respect of OUR warriors in the prosecution of the IRAQ war - how's that? In my opinion, and probably the better way I should have written it, I put him inline with the folks that managed the Vietnam war, politically pulling military strings. The lessons learned from Vietnam were supposed to limit or prevent political bungling and mis-support and under-support of our troops. THAT is what pisses me off most with this administration. Trying to do the war on the cheap and believing a model of hugs & kisses liberation has cost a lot of lives. It's the mismanagement that gets me. Maybe I am naieve in my thinking that the government would learn from its mistakes but I remember some of the mantra of the military in the 80s and 90s training to do the job right and asking (praying) the civilian leadership would do the right thing too. Regan had some, Bush #I seemed to get it, Clinton was even money but this current group, I just don't know... I have a hard time thinking that a John McCain administration or someone similar and more of a leader than this guy would assemble a comparable "team" and make similar mistakes. I wish the bumper stickers read "So glad I voted for McCain". I think our country would be in a much better position in the world than it is today.

That is my opinion, not that he is a war criminal in the sense of a Sadaam (who did need to go) or a Hitler. You want to see what Sadaam, Milosovic, Hitler people are, go to places like Dachau - I've been there and seen it and it is abhorrent. So poor choice of words on my part to say what I'm trying to say.



Cindy Sheehan I am not. I did not lose a relative, especially a son in this war and nor do I think she is smart hanging out with Che G ver 2. Or that her politics are rational in many cases. I feel very sorry in that she has lost her son in the service of our country. She has every right to speek out and she can run for political office or whatever she is talking about, I still wouldn't vote for her...

[Nebe]

Anyone who pressures his intellegence resources to come up with false data to push a war based on corperate profits is a war criminal in my book.

our country has been hijacked by a bunch of paranoid wackos and i want my own country back thankyou

[mekcotuit]

what Nebe said

[Bronko]

Your country is gone Nebe, and its not coming back regardless of which individual or party has control of the Whitehouse. The bottom line is that 9/11 happened....period. Now America wants to be safe. The reason GW won re-election is because the majority of this country believed they would be safer under his control than under the control of John Kerry. That was the last election boiled down in its simplist form.You know it doesn't matter what political party or ideology you believe in. If the majority of the country are calling for blood (based on information rooted in truth or fiction) the president is going to find blood. You get punched in the mouth, you punch back. Every president does it. The teeth of the Patriot Act will continue to get sharper and isolationism as the only alternative will slowly pervade our society. This all sounds pretty bleak, but I do believe things can improve. There is no doubt in my mind that the first step to getting this country back on track is to end the rabid partisanship on both sides of the aisle. Absolutely nothing of substance will get done without compromise and co-operation. Both parties are equally responsible. I actually thought GW said something intelligent the other night, which could apply to both parties when assailing the others leaders...."Hindsight is not wisdom, and defeatism and negativity are not strategies." (paraph.)

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Anyone who pressures his intellegence resources to come up with false data to push a war based on corperate profits is a war criminal in my book.

our country has been hijacked by a bunch of paranoid wackos and i want my own country back thankyou

I think Nebe is really Cindy Sheehan... They sound rather alike dont they? Yikes

[Raven]

not so much about what you just said but with the whole idea of
needing permission to start the war because of the threat of wmd's.
That always "comes up" or what lead up to that idea.
.................................................. .................................................
before the war even began and the iraq military was begining to move their heavy equipment....
our fighter pilots were being fired apon by land-based anti -aircraft guns way out on the outskirts of desert...
in the no fly zone. That first shot fired IMO was the same as the revolutionary war's
"the shot heard round the world" musket blast

and we had the right (at that exact moment) to go in and finish the job
41 started regardless of ANYTHING else.

the wmd's and 90% of arrogant sadame's fortune were simply moved out of
the country to where they COULDN'T be found
long in advance of any military conflict.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Raven

not so much about what you just said but with the whole idea of
needing permission to start the war because of the threat of wmd's.
That always "comes up" or what lead up to that idea.
.................................................. .................................................
before the war even began and the iraq military was begining to move their heavy equipment....
our fighter pilots were being fired apon by land-based anti -aircraft guns way out on the outskirts of desert...
in the no fly zone. That first shot fired IMO was the same as the revolutionary war's
"the shot heard round the world" musket blast

and we had the right (at that exact moment) to go in and finish the job
41 started regardless of ANYTHING else.

the wmd's and 90% of arrogant sadame's fortune were simply moved out of
the country to where they COULDN'T be found
long in advance of any military conflict.

Agreed. Also intersting to note that the head of Saddam's Air Force for many years is now coming out and saying the same thing about the WMD's. He claims they were flown to Syria before the US invasion. Via commercial airlines modified to hold the weapons so they wouldnt be detected. Don't know how credible this fellow is but it seems to go along with what many people have speculated about the past few years. I meen we know Iraq had the WMD's, thats not even debatable. The question is what the hell happened to them?

[Swimmer]

I enjoy reading everyones opinon. Some are quite informative. Some are not. I post things that are not well-thought out and consequently seem shallow and non well-informed from time to time, so I understand when other people do it. Some people here amaze me posting thoughts that after following them and thier opinons for awhile come out with an opinon completely opposite of what I thought it would be. Flaptails opinon of Bush and his overall policies/state of the union speech isn't off the mark too much. If Bush could communicate better everyone would feel more comforatble with his polices because they would believe they were of intelligent design by an educated person. Junior comes across as a good old boy from Midlands, Texas, who covers up his not being comfortable speaking in public by acting like a wiseass. I dont think any other president would have done things any different, donkey or elephant. What Raven had to say about the first shot and the WMD's actually existing at one time I find to accurate also. JR's second post in response to SKipN was excellant as well. Great Thread.........

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Agreed. Also intersting to note that the head of Saddam's Air Force for many years is now coming out and saying the same thing about the WMD's. He claims they were flown to Syria before the US invasion. Via commercial airlines modified to hold the weapons so they wouldnt be detected. Don't know how credible this fellow is but it seems to go along with what many people have speculated about the past few years. I meen we know Iraq had the WMD's, thats not even debatable. The question is what the hell happened to them?

Still doesn't change the mickey mouse that was done while prosecuting the war on Iraq.

I'm not convinced there wasn't any WMD but they ain't been found and it is not looking good to find them these days... Do you have a link to that comment about the Iraqi AF general??

[spence]

I think Bush's biggest problem is that his policies tend to be based on idiological whim and have little substance.

Social Security didn't fail because the Dems mounted a great defense, it falied because the Admin couldn't ever articulate how it would fix or for that matter really even help the problem!

-spence

[Skip N]

Here's the link John.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Here's the link John.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

Interesting link....

[spence]

Well, the official position on this issue from the Iraq Survey Group (and tens of millions of your tax dollars) is that there is zero credible evidence to support the notion that any WMD went over any Iraqi border including Syria.

How much you want to be he's sure interested in selling books though!

-spence

[JohnR]

I'm sure he is very interested in selling books but it does require watching and more investigation...

Speaking of books - anyone read that one by Bob Baer ??

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Interesting link....

It's a conspiricy by the Bush Administration in preparation for next invasion.

[bart]

http://www.yucs.org/~ephraim/bushlip/