first post...something to wonder about

[Newboater]

Didn't have time to watch all the 'stuff' I stopped when the commentator said 'In 1945 a B-52 crashed into the Empire State Building'. B52 went operational in 1954. Guess that part was a working model?
Sarge

[Mike P]

Ah, yes, the old "east wind, rain" smoking gun that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor.

It doesn't fly because it rests on faulty assumptions. One, that FDR knew more about how the war would play out than his top admirals, and knew that aircraft carriers would be the strategic key to victory, and not battleships. That's why he ordered the carriers to sea but kept the battlewagons in port as sacrificial lambs, according to the conspiracy theorists. Except that King, and even Yamamoto who ordered the attack, still believed in the supremacy of the battleship.

Two, that he knew that Pearl was THE objective of the attack, and that the japanese had the ability to pull it off. They knew the Japanese were up to something, but went with the natural assumption that it would come in the Philippines.

Most importantly, what FDR really wanted was an excuse to get into it with Germany in Europe. Even in the days following Pearl, there was very little support for getting into it with the Nazis in the US. Then, Hitler did the unthinkable by actually honoring a treaty, and declaring war on us after we declared war on Japan. You'd have to believe that FDR knew ahead of time that Hitler was going to honor the only treaty he ever did--against the advice of most of his top commanders, by the way.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Ah, yes, the old "east wind, rain" smoking gun that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor.

It doesn't fly because it rests on faulty assumptions. One, that FDR knew more about how the war would play out than his top admirals, and knew that aircraft carriers would be the strategic key to victory, and not battleships. That's why he ordered the carriers to sea but kept the battlewagons in port as sacrificial lambs, according to the conspiracy theorists. Except that King, and even Yamamoto who ordered the attack, still believed in the supremacy of the battleship.

Two, that he knew that Pearl was THE objective of the attack, and that the japanese had the ability to pull it off. They knew the Japanese were up to something, but went with the natural assumption that it would come in the Philippines.

Most importantly, what FDR really wanted was an excuse to get into it with Germany in Europe. Even in the days following Pearl, there was very little support for getting into it with the Nazis in the US. Then, Hitler did the unthinkable by actually honoring a treaty, and declaring war on us after we declared war on Japan. You'd have to believe that FDR knew ahead of time that Hitler was going to honor the only treaty he ever did--against the advice of most of his top commanders, by the way.

My grand-father-in-law was secretary of war Under FDR. Trust me on this...... They knew.

[Raven]

their ticket to ride.....



but i sense a JEDI mind trick

[PI guy]

I can't wait for the fish to show up!!!!!!!Anyone?!!?

[sok]

Originally Posted by PI guy

I can't wait for the fish to show up!!!!!!!Anyone?!!?

Can't get here quick enough.

[Joe]

That conspiracy theory is whacked.
If the conservatives were behind 9/11 why didn't they crash the planes in the co-ops on the Upper West Side? That's where all the big donor libs come from.

If they had taken out the 92nd St YMCA, they could have wiped out most of the next generation of the liberal elite in the pre-school. Or gone up to mid-town and taken out the NYT offices. If I remember it was a Tuesday, they could have gotten Maureen Dowd, easy.

I mean really, crashing through the offices of Merrill Lynch and Cantor Fitzgerald? Hello? They were bond traders. They were up there in the that top 5% of income and actually benefiting from the policies of the administration. You think they'd choose to wipe out card-carrying members of their base for cripes sake!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

My grand-father-in-law was secretary of war Under FDR. Trust me on this...... They knew.

George Dern?

-spence

[Nebe]

harry woodring.. Also former govenor of kansas. He was fdr's right hand man when he was elected pres, and when the war broke out in europe, they did not see eye to eye about going to war if we were not attacked. ( he was anisolationist) FDR replaced him before pearl harbor, but they were still very close for many many years.