OTW "Striper Cup Tourney" Format is Irresponsible to the Fishery

[Flaptail]

*** let's move this back to discussion on the issue, not at a personal level ***

[Krispy]

Wheres Slipknot to quote me, when you need him?

[Skitterpop]

I was wondering when this was going to storm up unreasonably.

Sunny and getting warmer

[Slipknot]

What's wrong with you people?



enough with the insults and personal stuff Steve, I know someone assumed something, but you don't need to escalate things.
It is not making you look good and the board doesn't need that kind of crap. Debate the subject without name calling please.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

What's wrong with you people?



enough with the insults and personal stuff Steve, I know someone assumed something, but you don't need to escalate things.
It is not making you look good and the board doesn't need that kind of crap. Debate the subject without name calling please.

Bruce I respect you but no one, not you, JohnR or anyone else is going to stop me from saying what I want when I want especially if someone tries to question my integrity. If the board doesn't like it it too bad for you all but I will not back down from something like that.

Someone questioning that will be responded to, plain and simple. Unlike many others here I do not see things in gray but black and white and will not cudgel and cojole others with happy feelings so we can all "just get along" therefore no apologies to anyone, I stand where I stand, you all can see it with no illusions.

I have been at this way too long and have seen many and been involved in many things related to Striped Bass, thier stock levels and the effect some assume this Tournament would have on the fishery.
People that have only been in the game for five or ten years have no idea of the real scope of this fishery, who it affects and what effects it.

Making that assumption on there part is akin to Hillary Clinton moving to New York and running for senate, she has no real basis, no deep connection to the real issues. I am in it, I still belive in it I have no qualms about it. And I will not tolerate proposed innuendo and questioning of my integrity. I do not care who likes or dislikes me, I sleep well every night.

[Krispy]

$

[Slipknot]

I'm glad you replied Steve. I don't blame you one bit for defending yourself when he made it personal by questioning your integrity. I would have done the same thing but as a moderator I would have left the namecalling out , that is all.So that's why I said something. I could see it coming when I read it

Back to the discussion of irresponsibility now.............

I guess we'll wait and see how it all turns out this year. I doubt that many people will be weighing in 2 fish per week and I also wonder if OTW is planning to make public the total amounts of fish entered at the end.
After reading some of the replies here, I come to the conclusion that some of you need to read the rules as to how the prizes are awarded.

[Mike P]

Look, I love stripers as much as anyone, but I don't get this sacred cow mindset. Some people have no problems killing bluefish even if they don't keep them. Some people keep their limit of fluke, flounder, tautog, scup, sea bass, cod, pollock or haddock (if they lucky enough to catch a legal one) every time they head out. How many people will head out in a month or so and fill a couple of totes with mackerel to freeze and use as bait the rest of the season? Not a single one of the fisheries I listed is as healthy, numbers wise, as the bass fishery. Yet we wring our hands over a tournament that was conceived for the right reasons, because it'll result in dead bass. Post a picture of a 10# fluke on the internet, or an 8# tautog, and everyone goes "wow, nice fish". Not a single person ever says, "shame on you for keeping it, you should have released it". Post a picture of a 40# bass, and dollars to donuts some yahoo is going to criticize you for not releasing it. Yet, I'd venture to say there are tons more 40 bass out there than there are 10# fluke, and much more damage is being done to the fishery by killing 10# fluke. Fluke and tautog were put here to be killed and eaten, in a lot of your minds. Stripers, I guess, were put here to be worshipped.

If you practice catch and release with keeper groundfish, more power to you, and your opinions here have the same merit. If you don't, well, maybe a look in the mirror is in order before you criticize OTW and their staffers for hosting what some of you think is a striper Holocaust.

[beamie]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Look, I love stripers as much as anyone, but I don't get this sacred cow mindset. Some people have no problems killing bluefish even if they don't keep them. Some people keep their limit of fluke, flounder, tautog, scup, sea bass, cod, pollock or haddock (if they lucky enough to catch a legal one) every time they head out. How many people will head out in a month or so and fill a couple of totes with mackerel to freeze and use as bait the rest of the season? Not a single one of the fisheries I listed is as healthy, numbers wise, as the bass fishery. Yet we wring our hands over a tournament that was conceived for the right reasons, because it'll result in dead bass. Post a picture of a 10# fluke on the internet, or an 8# tautog, and everyone goes "wow, nice fish". Not a single person ever says, "shame on you for keeping it, you should have released it". Post a picture of a 40# bass, and dollars to donuts some yahoo is going to criticize you for not releasing it. Yet, I'd venture to say there are tons more 40 bass out there than there are 10# fluke, and much more damage is being done to the fishery by killing 10# fluke. Fluke and tautog were put here to be killed and eaten, in a lot of your minds. Stripers, I guess, were put here to be worshipped.

If you practice catch and release with keeper groundfish, more power to you, and your opinions here have the same merit. If you don't, well, maybe a look in the mirror is in order before you criticize OTW and their staffers for hosting what some of you think is a striper Holocaust.

Well said Mike P. This is the point I was trying to make with my first post on this subject.!

[Saltheart]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

deleted

Hmmm

Lets get back on track people.

[piemma]

Oh boy! here we go. We haven't had a good war in...what...3 weeks?

[spence]

Paul...you wanna piece a me?

-spence

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by spence

Paul...you wanna piece a me?

-spence

Me and you Spence, 3:00. behind the swingset.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishaholic18

Me and you Spence, 3:00. behind the swingset.

It's on...I'll be the one in the linen leisure suit and karate loafers.

U a ded man.

-spence

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

It's on...I'll be the one in the linen leisure suit and karate loafers.

U a ded man.

-spence

The scary part of this is that you'd be wearing that anyways..


I have kept out of this thread because I have mixed feelings... I usually activly fish the spring and fall surf tourny's here in RI and have the last 5-6 years... I am in several fishing clubs where we weigh in fish for a yearlong tourney... so it is a bit contradictory that I should be against this tourney, but I have some serious reservations...
I would like to see some changes...
-Bigger minimum size.. 40" or maybe 43 or 45"
-Limit each angler to 2 or 3 fish for the entire tourney...
-Make penalty points for bringing in undersized fish.. penalize the club and the individual for this...
-No culling

I havent entered the Swamp Yankee for the same reason.. a weekly weigh in adds up to more fish than the normal angler would kill. I'm not anti-kill over a 6 or 7 month season I kill about 10bass and eat them. I have zero problem with that... killing 2 a week for an extended period of time I would have a problem with

Having grown up in the moratorium I dont remember the good old days of the 60's and 70's but I sure as hell dont want to be back in 1985 again... with a 36" limit it took along time for me to see a legal bass as a kid....

Someone brought up SF... Steve... know where at least I'm coming from.. I'm not a supporter of them at all.. perfect case of too much of a 'good' thing... i.e. being an environmentalist is good... being in Greenpeace is taking it (in sarcastic voice) A BIT too far... same idea...

If anyone is going to enter the tourney to go for largest fish, go for it, if it means you are killing the same number of bass as before... if it means you will be killing significantly more bass than normal, then use your head and decide for yourself...

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by spence

It's on...I'll be the one in the linen leisure suit and karate loafers.

U a ded man.

-spence

Striped Bass Fisherman Gone Wild

[Swimmer]

Spence move the rumble off a couple of hours so we can sell some tickets to raise money for the site.

Regardless of all the emotion this issue has raised its nice to see so many people so interested in the same the, the well-being of the species.

[DZ]

Nib - thanks for being the first one who brought this to light - I noticed.

Just a few thoughts and observations:

Almost everyone enjoys a good tournament based on the healthy competition and camaraderie it develops. I’ve fished in many, good and bad, over the years. I’ve also have the experience of organizing many others.

It seems the major part of the “Striper Cup” that is generating controversy (as well it should) is the “Aggregate weight/points” divisions. I’d like to state that I, like many others, enjoy a good tournament. I enter a few each season, usually because I feel I may have a shot of winning something such as some new gear (which I probably don’t need). The events I enter are usually beneficial to fisherman and/or society in general.


Some key points of good tourneys:
1. A sense of fairness to all participants – an example of this would be separate categories for surf and boat and equal prizes (in value) for both. I’ve been involved in some where prizes were used fishing gear! (A half filled bulk spool of line in my case)

2. Most well run tourneys had rules and regs that took conservation into consideration. This would prevent over-fishing and the needless entry of bass that had no chance of taking a prize. An example would be a minimum weight entry that is not “easily” attainable. For instance the fishing club I’m a member of requires any bass entered into the club tourney to be 25 lbs minimum. (A poor example would be a tourney that took and kept a fish you entered then sold it to the market next door and the organizers kept the proceeds! True story).

3. If a tourney has a “club competition division” there would be a limit on qualified entries, in other words only a clubs top three bass would qualify in that division. This is done to even the playing field between some clubs which may have a 1000 members and others that may only have 20. Top three bass in total weight wins. This set-up also allows individual clubs to let their members know what size fish it would take to qualify so needless fish are not killed for entry. Example: Club A has three bass entered, 45, 40, and 39 lbs. Its members will know not to keep anything that doesn’t beat a 39 because it wouldn’t count.

4. Most responsible tourneys have a designated charity for proceeds or part of proceeds. These proceeds generally go to some organization that stands for the “betterment of fishing” or is youth or health oriented. I’ve always been wary of any tourney that appears to be a money maker for someone behind the scenes.


A few more thoughts about other posts – don’t get mad about how others feel. Everyone has there own view and freedom to express it. There are members here who are great fishermen with who I enjoy talking/fishing with immensely. We may disagree on topics from time to time but I would never let those disagreements allow me to disparage them in a public thread such as this. I value their friendship too much.

I won't enter the "Striper Cup" as advertised. If you enter a tourney you support the whole tournament - not just the part you like.

DZ

[JFigliuolo]

Yeah, what DZ said.

One thing that I keep reading is "I won't keep anythin under X." That's fine, no really. The PROBLEM is that a number of people won't do that. That's the problem w/the rules as written. It really does encourage people to kill more than most of us find acceptable.

Will I enter? not as the rules are now. There really needs to be a weight minimum and a set number of fish to be entered. I am not slamming OTW, but come on. This seems like a much to obvious issue to miss.

[Sea Dangles]

Thanks DZ;clarity and serenity.

[JohnR]

Great post DZ.

(so did you win the used line?)

[Big Dave]

This summary paragraph is a copy of the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries
Technical Report TR-24 regarding Striped Bass harvest in Mass in 2004

During 2004, the commercial fishery for striped bass in Massachusetts harvested about 60,632 fish weighing 1,206,305 pounds. Total losses due to commercial harvesting (including release mortality) were 70,544 fish weighing 1,304,752 pounds. The recreational fishery harvested about 403,547 striped bass weighing over 5.4 million pounds. Total losses due to recreational fishing (including release mortality) were 868,413 fish weighing over 7.7 million pounds. Combined losses (including scientific losses) were 939,078 fish weighing over 9.0 million pounds, which reflects a 16% increase in numbers lost and an 11% increase in weight lost compared to 2003 (810,381 fish: 8.1 million pounds) The majority of losses, 92%by number and 86% by weight, was attributed to the recreational fishery.

After reading the above summary does anyone really believe the OTW fishing derby is going to have any effect on the fishery whatsoever? People Who Fish, Keep Fish, and those that catch and release kill a percentage of those they release, plain and simple. And it would be the vast majority of those fish that are killed anyway that would make it to the scales, and entered into the derby Big Dave

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by DZ

.

3. If a tourney has a “club competition division” there would be a limit on qualified entries, in other words only a clubs top three bass would qualify in that division. This is done to even the playing field between some clubs which may have a 1000 members and others that may only have 20. Top three bass in total weight wins. This set-up also allows individual clubs to let their members know what size fish it would take to qualify so needless fish are not killed for entry. Example: Club A has three bass entered, 45, 40, and 39 lbs. Its members will know not to keep anything that doesn’t beat a 39 because it wouldn’t count.

4. Most responsible tourneys have a designated charity for proceeds or part of proceeds. These proceeds generally go to some organization that stands for the “betterment of fishing” or is youth or health oriented. I’ve always been wary of any tourney that appears to be a money maker for someone behind the scenes.

DZ

Great post DZ

I hope OTW can make an addendum to their rules regarding your point number 4 or if they want some variation of it I'm sure that would help. That sounds like a most excellant idea as opposed to the way it is written now, where there is the possibility that club members could theoretically enter 40 bass each in the tournament in order to get enough points for their club to win which IMO would needlessly kill far to many bass that may otherwise have been released.


I also hope that some of the proceeds go to help the fishery or to aid in teaching youngsters about fishing and the right way to do it.

[inTHERAPY]

I spoke for quite a while to Neil Larson, gm of OTW, and expressed my concerns about the 2 fish per week. He seemed genuinely interested in my comments. He also told me that OTW was not opposses to making rule changes as issues arise. OTW was not looking for a kill tourney. I will give OTW a chance at this, and have signed up.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by DZ

Nib - thanks for being the first one who brought this to light - I noticed.


DZ

Denny,
I Bet U noticed the part about mud wrastlin.

[Big Dave]

Spence to your argument.

Not every fish is a keeper. A lot of those fish die, from being caught, this is especially true of small fish, and they fight so hard they damage and pull their mouths and at time gills apart during a fight. Yet the fishermen will cast another offering to them. Which leads to another point about recreational guys, not many of them stop fishing when they take a keeper or even 2. If the fish are there and they are willing to be caught most fishermen I’ve seen will keep catching and releasing as long as the fish cooperate. Which counts as well towards the mortality of the fish. Again I state, people like to fish, keep fish, and keep fishing no matter what, and with that comes the inevitable death of fish, well intended releases or not. Big Dave