OTW "Striper Cup Tourney" Format is Irresponsible to the Fishery

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Cumulative year-long poundage. Whichever club kills the most fish wins.
DZ made a great suggestion in having clubs only submit the top 7 or 5 or 3 fish, that way anything not meeting the mark doesnt need to kill it.
I would really like to fish this tournament, but have reservations with the club fish kill, and the early ending time frame
Actually, re-reading the rules, I'll probly just enter as an individual. I interested in seeing what others "sharpies" are actually catching in the surf

In the schaefer clubs were allowed to enter only the ten top fish caught for each eligible species ( Bass, Bluefish, Cod and Weakfish, which were on the list, then off, then on again) per month. Therefore, the fish had to be big in order to garner the points and surf fish were worth two points as opposed to boat fish at one point. 90% of the Schaefer weigh stations were fish markets. As most back then sold thier catch. Not only "commercial" rod and reelers but Mom and Pop and the uncle Bob and whoever caught fish. A very small majority didn't.

I write for OTW, I am not in thier employ and had no input nor would I try to force my views upon them. I know how I will fish. I will not be entering every over 34 inch fish I catch. If I happen to take a big one, ie way over 30 lbs, it's in. If I don't, no biggie. I catch many fish each year, a reasonable guess would be over a thousand or more, it ain't hard to catch a hundred in a day in some of the places I and some friends fish, just ask Stiff tip.

In converstion with Bob Pond many years ago at the Worcester Show and several occasions after that, I asked him what he thought was the biggest threat to bass and he answered "Acid rain, chemical run-off of fertilizers in Chesapeake, pollution in the Hudson". He went on to explain how his number one concern, acid rain, was not allowing the fertilized eggs to develop. That was the basic premise of his Stripers Unlimited work. In that he was ahead of his time and finally like the return of the Osprey to the Chesapeake watershed, the bass rebounded also, due to the reduction of acid rain and chemical run-off. He never mentioned tournaments to me and I spoke with him at length many many times. One has only to research the year with low acid rain occurences in April in the Chesapeake and it's correlation to high YOY indexes to see the link.

Mr. Saltheart, your reference to Bob Pond is based on conjecture and not fact and he himself would tell you that for Bob Pond is an honest man who plainly stated fact and did not bend the facts as they came to light to further his purpose. He was right on his theory, and for that we shall always be grateful.

[Flaptail]

Oh yeah, I forgot. The fecundity of the Striped Bass is almost unparrelled in the icthyological world. Given the right conditions the bass could expect indices of recruitment of it's stocks that dwarf other species. It is a known fact that although a frty pound cow may carry millions of eggs, the older she gets the viability of those same eggs is questionable as opposed to younger and smaller female bass in the mid teen weight classes whose eggs, though less in volume are much more viable and less subject to non-developement.

[mooncusser]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

...It is a known fact that although a frty pound cow may carry millions of eggs, the older she gets the viability of those same eggs is questionable as opposed to younger and smaller female bass in the mid teen weight classes whose eggs, though less in volume are much more viable and less subject to non-developement.

That's old mis-information, not a "known fact". While it's true a bass may have less-viable eggs by the time it reaches the end cycle of its life (we're talking 65 or 70+ pounds), recent studies have showed a 40-pound bass has both several times more eggs (is more fecund) and more viable eggs when compared to a 20-pound bass.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by mooncusser

That's old mis-information, not a "known fact". While it's true a bass may have less-viable eggs by the time it reaches the end cycle of its life (we're talking 65 or 70+ pounds), recent studies have showed a 40-pound bass has both several times more eggs (is more fecund) and more viable eggs when compared to a 20-pound bass.

I would love to see that info, can you give me the link?

Saltheart, by invoking the name of Mr. Pond you invariably lead anyone to believe that it can be reaonably inferred that he would have supported your view on this issue.

Now, that said, do you or anyone else here oppossed to the tournament fish the Martha's Vineyard Derby? It's one 28 or better inch bass a day, right? One bass for each contestant for the 30 days of the derby, if fishing was good. Now the OTW Tourney goes 5 months with two fish a day over 34. Hmmm.....

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Now, that said, do you or anyone else here oppossed to the tournament fish the Martha's Vineyard Derby? It's one 28 or better inch bass a day, right? One bass for each contestant for the 30 days of the derby, if fishing was good. Now the OTW Tourney goes 5 months with two fish a day over 34. Hmmm.....

The Derby does not have a system that rewards aggregate weight. Sure, there is the Grand Slam that allows for aggreagate weight of your biggest fish in each of 4 categories but that is about it. On the leader board the biggest fish is the biggest fish - depending on division. Granted, some people weigh in 8# albies just to get a picture taken in front of the Derby Sign and I'm sure more than a few do so with a 32" bass to get "On the Board". Personally, I wouldn't do that and a lot of people don't. I don't enter the Tourney to get a daily but on the odd chance that pure luck puts me in the right place at the right time so that with luck and any sense of skill I may have gained over the years would let me land a fish that can place or win the thing.

Two different things in my opinion.

Other tourneys, like the MS Tourney (Formerly MDA ) for example, only factor in the top 3 fish of each species for each club and the duration is only one weekend.

I'll be honest, I do like the idea of this tourney but I think it needs to have it's rules tighten up a bit.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Granted, some people weigh in 8# albies just to get a picture taken in front of the Derby Sign and I'm sure more than a few do so with a 32" bass to get "On the Board". Personally, I wouldn't do that and a lot of people don't.

John--there are a number of people who weigh in 32" bass to have a shot at the daily "Mystery Prize". They'd do the same with small albies if they could. Personally, I stopped fishing for albies because it's very difficult to release one alive, and they're inedible--the fillet program won't even take them. Most of the ones caught during the Derby wind up as lobster bait.

[Big Dave]

Mike
I have to admit I mirror your thoughts about fishing in your above post. Could not have said it any better if I type it myself. I too have never considered the SB to be something special. It’s always just been another fish to catch and I too enjoy them as much as the next guy, but I also have no problems keeping my limit when I fish. Fishing is about eating and my family and I certainly enjoy each and every type fillet that makes it to the table. Be it ground fish or game.

Karl
I certainly understand your comments about the accuracy of data that’s collected. I can’t comment on what people tell surveyors, what I can comment on, within the reports equations are correction factors to bring error within the data into a usable calculation. Is it 100% accurate? No. Is it reasonable? Yes. It’s science, and the type it is ends up being a very well calculated guesstimate. And a lot of decision makers heavily rely on it. If you please, I am in no way trying to defend it, or to convince anybody to its validity; I personally give it its due credit.

There has been a ton of great points brought up in this discussion, especially about other derby’s, one of which came to my mind, (not sure if it was mentioned) was the Shark Tournament on the Vineyard. Pretty useless fish kill in the grand scheme of things, yet not many jumping up and down about putting an end to that one. People’s passion about the striped ones is plainly evident. At times a bit over stated maybe but none the less, there is a very vocal group of bass fishermen that seem to sing the loudest all the time. And from what I have seen it’s always the favorable and politically correct C+R guys.
I have been trying my best to understand and maybe side with the majority on the board about the aggregate catch numbers. I just can’t. This may be a very unpopular statement I just don’t believe that this derby harms the bass stocks, and the keeping of fish that are caught doesn’t really bother me either. So long as the fish do not go to waste. I guess amongst reasonable men there is always room for debate. Big Dave