Immigration and Illegal aliens

["uffah!!"]

I agree with a lot of you and disagree with some of you to a certain extent. But what I haven't heard yet, is you have to remember, that wheather a person is legal or illeagal, if they give birth in this country,that offspring is a Natural Citizen of this country. Now, what are you suppose to do, keep the offspring and send the mother home? Thats what happened on my mothers side. My grandparents on my mothers side were not citizens of this country, but all eight of her offspring were.

[Surfcastinglife]

i have mixed feelings about this issue. my parents immigrated to the usa illegally when i was 3 years old. why? because they were denied entry visas 5 times and entering legally was no longer an option, and neither was staying in their situation. to this day my family and i are still "illegal" none of us have permanent resident status (green card), and thats not because they haven't tried. 18 years after immigrating to this country they own a home, pay taxes like everyone else does and do everything a normal us citizen does. this bill will mean they will be able to finally be "american citizens." to them, its just a label, one that allows them to finally re-visit their home country, and me to go back to the place i was born and haven't seen in 18 years. but of course, though my parents may be part of the majority there are those out there that will find ways to abuse this new bill, that seek only to exploit this country and that's not right. stuck between a rock and a hard place, love to see it go through because it helps folks like my parents and myself out, and at the same time i look to the future and see the problems this will cause, the strain it may lay on this country in the future.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Nebe

If someone wants to move to america and possibly take up a job that an american citizen could be hired for, they should be prepared to become an american.. The national language of America is English. plain and simple.

Hey we agree buddy If an immigrant wants to make it in this country they NEED to learn English. Otherwise they won't get very far in the workforce.

[Skip N]

Another thing i am not hearing regarding this new bill thats being thrown around. If we give the 11 million illegals citizenship, wich is gonna happen, what the hell is the big plan for cracking down on the border and preventing 11 million more Illegals from coming right in??? The majority of both Republicans and Democrats are idiots and have no balls when it comes to this issue. But the few who do speak up are called racists by the hispanic groups. Just look how the minute men get trashed for trying to help on the border, they get called racists and every other name in the book by the pro illegal immigration groups. No wonder the politicians are afraid, well plus the votes they all want.

[Bronko]

Does somebody have Spence held against his own will? Why hasn't he posted? Should we call the cops?

[Joe]

Are you a republican? If you are, you should think about the issue in practical terms of power and forwarding conservative ideology. The language issue and the drain on social services component is not much of a consideration in terms of holding the majority and keeping red states red.

If you're a conservative you should be firmly sided with the Latino population on this point. If the republicans lose the inroads they've made with Latino voters - they're screwed. Lose Congress in the midterms (that looks like a certainty) and lose the White House in 2008 and the only person left espousing hard right ideology will be Rush and Bill O'Reilly.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Joe

Lose Congress in the midterms (that looks like a certainty) and lose the White House in 2008 and the only person left espousing hard right ideology will be Rush and Bill O'Reilly.

one can only hope

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Nebe

one can only hope

If you think there will be an improvement your dreaming. Same old same old but with higher taxes, more handout social programs (illegal alien bait).

[Flaptail]

Problem is that the really qualified people who should run for President won't because, a. not enough money personally,b. did something in thier past they are not proud of but it was done in a time of the foolishness of youth (ie: smoke pot), c. wouldn't put thier families through something like a campaign and the negative ads d. are Independents or like myself, non-attached to any party, in this country your chances of getting elected if not a democrat or (God forbid) a conservative republican are almost nil. e. your a not a regular church goer and don't believe you need a middle man to talk to God. f. your a black women or black man or Jewish or both and the first one who is elected ( and someday hopefully they will) will be a target for some redneck or neo-nazi with an itchy trigger finger who is "fighting for his race" whatever that means. g. your educational background is lacking a degree but your common sense and natural degree of inteligence to see right from wrong and judge it so still won't overcome the stigma.

That's all.

[Joe]

Bush has one DUI and a ten-year lapse in his resume where he was essentially drunk. His most memorable academic achievement was being able to rattle off all his frat brothers regardless of how much he drank. Cheney's got 2 DUI's and has publicly admitted to having "other priorities" instead of military service.

But yet they are viewed as virtuous and have been credited with restoring honor to the Oval Office. Why? Because there has been no Monica scandal? What the f_ck did that matter? If you fired everybody who ever got a bj from a fat chick at work nobody would have a job.

[Clogston29]

Very true. Some of us are alittle more discreet though.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Joe

Bush has one DUI and a ten-year lapse in his resume where he was essentially drunk. His most memorable academic achievement was being able to rattle off all his frat brothers regardless of how much he drank. Cheney's got 2 DUI's and has publicly admitted to having "other priorities" instead of military service.

But yet they are viewed as virtuous and have been credited with restoring honor to the Oval Office. Why? Because there has been no Monica scandal? What the f_ck did that matter? If you fired everybody who ever got a bj from a fat chick at work nobody would have a job.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

[kevin d]

Well, illegal is illegal.
As for learning the language. I have no problem with people being bilingual. If they move here they need to learn English. Don't administer ANY test in their home language, the highway signs are in English. When I was in Japan I had to learn to speak Japanese to deal with the locals. Get away from the border towns in Mexico and you had better know Spanish if you want to do business there.
There simply is no "melting" left to the melting pot if people aren't forced to adapt.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Joe

Are you a republican? If you are, you should think about the issue in practical terms of power and forwarding conservative ideology. The language issue and the drain on social services component is not much of a consideration in terms of holding the majority and keeping red states red.

If you're a conservative you should be firmly sided with the Latino population on this point. If the republicans lose the inroads they've made with Latino voters - they're screwed. Lose Congress in the midterms (that looks like a certainty) and lose the White House in 2008 and the only person left espousing hard right ideology will be Rush and Bill O'Reilly.

Unlike you, i don't sell my soul to a political party. Yes i hold conservative views, but i don't support bending over and doing whatever it takes to win and get votes for the republican party. Especially if it meens going against what you believe. I put the country first and always will. If doing what's right means losing votes and support, then so be it. Sometimes the right thing is not always the popular thing.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Joe

Bush has one DUI and a ten-year lapse in his resume where he was essentially drunk. His most memorable academic achievement was being able to rattle off all his frat brothers regardless of how much he drank. Cheney's got 2 DUI's and has publicly admitted to having "other priorities" instead of military service.

But yet they are viewed as virtuous and have been credited with restoring honor to the Oval Office. Why? Because there has been no Monica scandal? What the f_ck did that matter? If you fired everybody who ever got a bj from a fat chick at work nobody would have a job.

Wow I didnt know he was drunk for ten years straight, Thats news to me. Just like a typical Dem, you resort to Anti Bush crap instead of sticking to the issue at hand and debating. But then again, thats the Dems agenda to win elections, Attack Bush and who cares what we stand for! America has no clue what you stand for!! And you wont win elections if you have no ideas other than attack Bush. Its old and tiring and people see right through it all

Funny, you rip Cheney for his non military service, yet you dont say a word about ole' bubba dodging the draft... Got double standard?

[Joe]

Yes...I think Clinton hid out at Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship...

W did not have the resume to become president. His father did - his father was bright guy, a war hero, a long record of distinguished public service - I voted for him the first time.

I'm not a Dem either - I'm an Independent....

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Joe

Yes...I think Clinton hid out at Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship...

W did not have the resume to become president. His father did - his father was bright guy, a war hero, a long record of distinguished public service - I voted for him the first time.

I'm not a Dem either - I'm an Independent....

Guess Bill had "other priorities". Funny how since 2000 National Guard doesn't count as miltary service and miltary service has become a pre-requisute to the Presidency or Vice-Presidency.

[Swimmer]

First-Most of the person we are talking about here understand and speak more english than we think. Don't let em kid ya!

Second-I can't beleive that Flaptail and SkipN agree on something, and Nebe too. What a threesome that makes.

I run into situations when they sit and chat amongst themselves in front of me then I would turn around and start asking them questions in Spanish and they chit themselves. And they speak amongst themselves no more.

Hey if they want to play by the rules welcome aboard. If they dont, stay home.

[CAL]

Originally Posted by Joe

If you fired everybody who ever got a bj from a fat chick at work nobody would have a job.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Wow I didnt know he was drunk for ten years straight, Thats news to me. Just like a typical Dem, you resort to Anti Bush crap instead of sticking to the issue at hand and debating. But then again, thats the Dems agenda to win elections, Attack Bush and who cares what we stand for! America has no clue what you stand for!! And you wont win elections if you have no ideas other than attack Bush. Its old and tiring and people see right through it all

Funny, you rip Cheney for his non military service, yet you dont say a word about ole' bubba dodging the draft... Got double standard?

http://www.youngwomenshealth.org/tampon.html

[Rob Rockcrawler]

When my grandfather came over from austria in 1916 with his family the rule was that when you are outside the house you speak english, and they didnt know much when the ship arrived. I remeber him telling a couple of spanish speaking women his story at the local grocery store in a not very plaesant tone and i was shocked because i was like 14, now i think it was a good thing, maybe they took the hint and learned to speak english in public. Funny that the European Union has made english its official language but we havent. Some of our fearless leaders have talked bout an amendment to ban gay marriage but not too much talk bout one for a national language. Yet another case of jaded priorities.
Also, when it comes to making illegals felons, while i think it warants a felony charge would be the cost of jailing the felons. Imagine 5 million more people in our jails, prisions, or even the legal system. The tab that would fall on our shoulders would be billions of dollars of more debt that undoubtedly would be bought up by the chinese.

[cheferson]

While i see a lot of talk about making illegal immigrants felons, how about the American Citizens that hire the illegal immigrants?? The people that hire them are the problem. They line their pockets with cash from the underpaid illegal workers, usually don't help them when hurt on the job, pay no taxes on these wages,pay no overtime, and drive down the wages in their industries. The restaurant industry that i work in is overrun with illegal workers. If they were all deported, my wages would probably double in no time. Despite this I'm still for their cause 100%! If i was born in Mexico or guatemala, and could get into America illegally for a better life/wages for my family and i , i would do so in a heart beat. I doubt anyone here put in someones shoes in guatemala , would not do the same legal or not. Concerning them learning to speak english, how do you expect them to sit in a classroom and learn english right away when they are out working 100 hours at 2-3 jobs for $8??SOmeone (illegal) working loads of hours doesnt have any right to any public assistance, schooling or medical care when making the americans that hire them tons of $$$$?? But, a american citizen can sit on their butt, pop out a kid every few years, not work, and get free housing, food and medical care, and have their drug dealing bf move in and pay no rent and thats OK?

[Swimmer]

The problem with expecting immigrants to learn english is that they dont have to to survive. Their is such a large population now of all the major groups that many of the persons or ethnicities we are talking about own thier own businesses, i.e. landscaping and son on where one person speaks english who gives direction to everyone else and that person is also used as an interpreter with anyone who speaks only english. So no one actually has to go outside of their specific group, to work, shop, or anything.

[Backbeach Jake]

What I want to know is; Why doesn't the Spanish TV channels have English close-captions? But seriously,these illegals serve two purposes, they keep the price of labor down in this country. They allow businesses to skirt safety and other work condition laws and regulations. Who does that benefit? Not the blue collar worker.

[Joe]

Actually, our society is becoming more homogenous with less distinctions between regions and ethnicities.

Bi-Racial marriage and births are the most significant factors, but there are others. For example: People eat from the same fast food chains, the watch national news rather the reading local papers, they listen to satellite radio as opposed to local, they network on the same hook-up sites, and they make regular visits that touchstone of social sameness: the shopping mall.

It's just radically different from what I and other over-40 white people grew up with - but its common throughout the nation.

[Swimmer]

Joe, when I was going to college I had an insructor that said with a straight face, I am one half of an inter-racial marriage", meaning that she was irish and he husband was italian. No joke. Everyone in class kind of swallowed hard every time she referred to her own marriage especially the african american id that sat next to me.

[Raider Ronnie]

I've got the solution to fix this whole problem!
Start rounding all of them up and ship them over to Iraq and serve & defend this country, Like my nephew who has been over there for close to 3 years, and all my uncles who have fought (and died) in every war this country has been in, going back to WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and now Iraq !!!
Then you will see them fleeing back to South America ASAP !!!

[ThrowingTimber]

Ron,

Many folks join and are proud to serve. lumping everyone into one bunch does not solve anything. We all have family and friends over there. Luckily some have come back, and we're greatful for that and their service. And we anxiously await others return.

You are entitled to your comments, Im just letting you know they're very narrow minded.

Your bright idea. Is actually standard policy. If someone wants to join and are not a native citizen of this country they may join, at which time they are sworn in as a citizen. You really shouldnt enter into a discussion without knowing all aspects of the issue at hand. I'm lucky to know some who have been brave enough to go this route. And they've served proudly, and continue to do so.

WOuld you have the balls to go to another country... lets say Japan for arguments sake... You dont know the language... and you're soo proud to be there to be part of that country that you join their military to serve...??? Would you have the BALLS??? ...doubtful..

Your writing shows a lot about your character..

[Tburg]

New sign for the Southern Borders
Welcome to the USA
SORRY
NO MORE ROOM
TRY CANADA
dress warm

[Raider Ronnie]

[QUOTE=ThrowingTimber]Ron,

Many folks join and are proud to serve. lumping everyone into one bunch does not solve anything. We all have family and friends over there. Luckily some have come back, and we're greatful for that and their service. And we anxiously await others return.

You are entitled to your comments, Im just letting you know they're very narrow minded.

Your bright idea. Is actually standard policy. If someone wants to join and are not a native citizen of this country they may join, at which time they are sworn in as a citizen. You really shouldnt enter into a discussion without knowing all aspects of the issue at hand. I'm lucky to know some who have been brave enough to go this route. And they've served proudly, and continue to do so.

WOuld you have the balls to go to another country... lets say Japan for arguments sake... You dont know the language... and you're soo proud to be there to be part of that country that you join their military to serve...??? Would you have the BALLS??? ...doubtful..

Why the hell would I want to go to another country and learn their language and join their military ???
My family has given more than enough back to this country for me to have my opinions and not 1 family member has ever taken welfare or free health care from this country that I know of !!!