Old techniques vs. New tactics

[Skitterpop]

who told you what I`ve been thinking

[Joe]

Videos are very convincing.

[Krispy]

Rigged Sluggos are good example.
A newer product, that uses new tactics, that can use specialized rods that one wouldnt normally use with older techniques. Has had moderate cow success in the surf to date.
VS.
Live eels or rigged eels that have caught countless trophy bass over the decades.
Where/why would you invest time/$ in one over the other?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Rigged Sluggos are good example.
A newer product, that uses new tactics, that can use specialized rods that one wouldnt normally use with older techniques. Has had moderate cow success in the surf to date.
VS.
Live eels or rigged eels that have caught countless trophy bass over the decades.
Where/why would you invest time/$ in one over the other?

I think sluggos are an easy option, live or rigged eels require more time and thought, they are'nt just there in your bag along with plugs. But I don't think sluggos are the same as eels either...

[Joe]

I'm not sure soft plastics are a good example of a hype product. Because it ain't hype. I'd say its more of an evolution.
They weigh at close to 2oz - so a moderate plug rod can throw one -most people have a rod with a 2oz sweet spot.
You don't need any special reel.
They come in a host of different colors and patterns.
They don't stink, or rot, or die. So you can stick them in your pocket and not have to worry about forgetting them and ruining a wading coat.
Their cheap enough to throw in boulder field.
You can present them with a lot of action.
The baitshop does not need to be open and you don't have to worry about looking into a tank full of shoestrings.
In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they will outfish almost anything.

[likwid]

And there's times when Bass are on something and will straight up ignore eels or rubbah.

Seen it happen enough times.

My father has a story about fishing bass working flats somewhere and the only thing that actually turned them after throwing the kitchen sink at them was

an Al's goldfish.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm not sure soft plastics are a good example of a hype product. Because it ain't hype. I'd say its more of an evolution.
They weigh at close to 2oz - so a moderate plug rod can throw one -most people have a rod with a 2oz sweet spot.
You don't need any special reel.
They come in a host of different colors and patterns.
They don't stink, or rot, or die. So you can stick them in your pocket and not have to worry about forgetting them and ruining a wading coat.
Their cheap enough to throw in boulder field.
You can present them with a lot of action.
The baitshop does not need to be open and you don't have to worry about looking into a tank full of shoestrings.
In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they will outfish almost anything.

Someone has been drinking McKenna's coolaid.

[Joe]

Ahh to be a critic - how I envy you....

[Nebe]

I'll add my 19 cents.. last spring i fished only wood & i did pretty good.. summer, i used eels did alright.. then in the fall i fished sluggos...man oh man.. i did so well with the sluggo's i will hardly use wood this year. Of course i wont be using sluggo's anymore, but i am sold on the soft plastic way of thinking.

ASk Nib about how i took him to cow country... he was plugging and i was pitching rubber..

Rubber is where its at... be it, sluggo, real-eels, ronz, ultimus.. and yes, even mine

[Sea Dangles]

[QUOTE=Nebe]I'll add my 19 cents.. last spring i fished only wood & i did pretty good.. summer, i used eels did alright.. then in the fall i fished sluggos...man oh man.. i did so well with the sluggo's i will....
This is where I get confused because in the next post,"there's no question eels outfish..."it seems contradictory.I'm sure Eben is being honest about his success with rubber.Steve's success has certainly been well documented also and he stands nothing to gain financially so his credibility can't be questioned.I've also seen footage on Joe's site of Steve's cow which he himself equated to some kind of horseshoe in a dark,smelly area.
My concern is,how many people want to cast and retrieve all night with the frequency and speed that has been recommended.Cast,reel fast and twitch,cast again.Steve does this with an 8'6" stick because he is an angler that's been there before and knows he can battle big momma.Most R.I. surfcasters use big,long,beefy sticks to control the cow they dream of being on the other end of their line.After an hour of this method I predict the enthusiasm will diminish.
I don't think this well promoted rubber hype will stand the test of time.I also don't consider it to be a"big fish"bait.It will not replace the allure of swimming a Danny,Needle,darter or certainly the live eel.Close your eyes,reel slow,hold on.Rubber? occasionally.

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm not sure soft plastics are a good example of a hype product. Because it ain't hype. I'd say its more of an evolution.
They weigh at close to 2oz - so a moderate plug rod can throw one -most people have a rod with a 2oz sweet spot.
You don't need any special reel.
They come in a host of different colors and patterns.
They don't stink, or rot, or die. So you can stick them in your pocket and not have to worry about forgetting them and ruining a wading coat.
Their cheap enough to throw in boulder field.
You can present them with a lot of action.
The baitshop does not need to be open and you don't have to worry about looking into a tank full of shoestrings.
In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, they will outfish almost anything.

Thats more about convenience, than anything else Joe. I dont find eels much trouble to keep either.
And other than some "nice bass" I personally havent heard of any genuine cows taken on that style plastics.
Maybe the Storm plastics have really changed how some fishing styles are done in the canal or spring fisheries, but again I havent heard anything regarding size.
What about topwater spook type plugs? Its been popular in the salt for a few years and catches some fish, but how is it comparatively to other large bodied plugs that proved themselves through previous generations.

[Krispy]

Eben, if your seriously suggesting rubber eels outfish the real thing, ya need to get yer head outta the oven

[Nebe]

there is no question eels are better, but i just dont feel right killing something that could possibly go on the endangered species list. Also, i dont fish them enough to really feel confident with them. I hate keeping them alive, and i hate it when they die on me. call me a tree hugger i guess.

every fish over 30 lbs i have caught has come off of needlefish... this season, should be interesting to see which item works better for me. I'll share my results, as i dont play the 'bait and switch' with what plug i catch on...

[Joe]

You know who just bought a bunch of tin squid heads off me to use with plastics?
Al Benson.

[zacs]

Originally Posted by Krispy

And other than some "nice bass" I personally havent heard of any genuine cows taken on that style plastics.

Didn't Leo win the MV derby last year with a sluggo?

[Joe]

Eeek I spelled Al's last name wrong...It's Bentsen
Sorry Al....
This is from Secrets Of Surfcasting At Night

Most people consider Al the best rigged eel fisherman to date...

[CANAL RAT]

plugs,rubbah and wood work well but live or fresh dead bait will always be best.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Rigged Sluggos are good example.
A newer product, that uses new tactics, that can use specialized rods that one wouldnt normally use with older techniques. Has had moderate cow success in the surf to date.
VS.
Live eels or rigged eels that have caught countless trophy bass over the decades.
Where/why would you invest time/$ in one over the other?

I don't know if the Sluggo thing is "hype" but it's for damn sure it's an example of good marketing. I can't tell you how many times people walk into the shop, say they just saw the Steve McKenna OTW, and then rip black sluggos and all the accessories off the walls in the shop. How 'bout Butterfly jigs? People are simply nuts about them.

If I'm asked if I fish them, I tell them my opinion. A couple of expensive hooks, a expensive piece of rubber, time spent rigging and then a bluefish cuts the ass end off of it, right up to the hook. It drives me nuts. They work VERY well yes, for me it's just too frustrating. I'd fish an eel before that. It's cheaper. I don't question plastic's effectiveness, other then the lack of a true cow being caught on them. That will almost certainly change this year simply due to how many people will be fishing them. I also think the love affair will fade a bit if the coast is littered with 2 pound bluefish this year.

And yeah, I also made sure when taking the famous "Iron Mike 60# photo" plastered every where that the needlefish was in plain sight. No one can ever tell me people don't buy into hype or marketing. I'd discuss the bone over orange plugs on everyone's websites these days too, but people might not believe me.

I also think in the case of Sluggos, needlefish, Spooks, and almost all plugs for that matter the guy driving is the most important thing. Some people are just better at making any plug look alive with the way they make it work in their hands. Those who catch large regularly could do it on anything, they just have their preferences. Referencing the Ironman again, we have a 63 on a skin plug, a 60 on a 3.5 ounce blue/white Habs, a 53 (I think) on a blue/white Danny, and another 50 on a blurple Habs. That's definitely spreading the love around, not counting the repeat hits on the Habs. Steve McKenna could have caught that 40 in the OTW vid on anything, imo. He had the idea to be in that place at that time and is simply better then most at making any plug look alive.

I'm a traditionalist for the most part; give me plugs, bucktails, tins, and a few plastics in blue over white, black, white, and bunker (for my Storms) and I'm happy.

As always, in many cases people will catch the most on what they fish the most. I do my damage with Dannys closely followed by needles simply because those are the plugs I prefer to fish.

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

No one can ever tell me people don't buy into hype or marketing. I'd discuss the bone over orange plugs on everyone's websites these days too, but people might not believe me..

What is the deal on that color suddenly showing up all over the place? Did a paint company run a sale on bone and orange paints?????

[NIB]

Don't own any.not really a fan of orange bottom lures.Nor am I a fan of those spook type things.I made a livin on rubber on a jig head till Storm came out with shads in a bag.I was so pissed it took me 2 yrs to buy a pack an i still barely thro em.My style was cut from some old time NJ surfmen.I have seen many new ways to skin a cat in my travels.I take bits an pieces from all of it in effort of being the most complete surfcaster I can.My mind is always open for new Idea's. I may be slower than most to jump on the bandwagon thou.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

What is the deal on that color suddenly showing up all over the place? Did a paint company run a sale on bone and orange paints?????

I dreamed it up one afternoon when we were thinking of custom colors for a Super Strike order.

The bone Jumpin Minnow is a deadly plug and at the time we were having great success on the Mag Darter with the orange belly on charters. So bone over orange was reborn. I had it painted by a few other builders and now it's everywhere...

Although it works well it was only an experiment at the time. It was weird to watch it spread online though.

[likwid]

Fad?
Not a fad?



If it works I'll keep usin it.

Originally Posted by spence

Hard money says that Stevie Van Stall and a Sluggo will outfish Spence and an eel 5:1...

And once upon a time the J Plugs were the cow killers off the islands but those were just a "fad".

[Skitterpop]

Got one of these to try from shore when the squid is about. Its kind of heavy at 4 oz. but I`ll rip twitch it if its calm or throw it in strong current
and see what happens. Its a bad pic but the cedar part is bluple and the rubber black purple silver with white specs. Its about 9 inches long.