Black Salties could ease the no live herring dilemma

[mikecc]

They are not a shiner.

Alls I got to say is Tom's in Middleboro was fined over $50,000 for importing into MA.
It is up to the person to know his law of importing them into his state.
I'm not going to get into it any further. Look it up before you do it.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by mikecc

They are not a shiner.

Correct.

They're in the goldfish family and if allowed to grow can become quite large like any of the other species in the goldfish family.They're very hardy,the fact that they can live in saltwater for up to two hours demonstrates that.This is also what makes them easy to raise.

Letting non-native species propagate,especially in a closed freshwater environment,is never a good idea.You can never know what the resulting consequences could be.White perch in Moosehead lake,zebra mussels in the Great Lakes etc.These fish were designed and developed in a lab and have a patent pending.They're non-native everywhere on the planet.

Out of all the concientious local fisherman who'll use them only in saltwater there'll always be someone who'll want his own private stock and'll drop a few dozen in the local pond.

Now with all that being said they haven't posed any problem whereever they've been used so far and may very well be the ticket to allow those who fish live bait to continue to do so and will take the pressure off the native species and allow them to rebound.

[piemma]

Come on. if you guys can't catch a decent bass on a Danny or a Surf Hog you should hang it up. You still have eels and Scup

[MakoMike]

I talked to dave at Ocean State tackle yesterday and he said they will be carrying them starting next week.

[mikecc]

Just got off the phone with the division of fisheries and wildlife. They said the only way that fish in allowed in MA is DEAD.
Any person having posession of it will be subject to fines and jail.
It is a nonnative species and is not allowed period.
Any person selling the fish in the state will be fined severly & or jail and licences suspended.
They said that selling it for saltwater does not make a differance. It is the fact that it could be introduced to the freshwater lakes and streams.

[CaptDom]

Hi Guys,

Lurked here for a while, never posted as didn't feel appropriate with my profession while not being a sponsor. Like the information exchanged, and the obvious passion you all share for fishing.

That being said, I want to clear up a few things in regards to the Black Salty. These fish are farm raised members of the goldfish family, and were developed in aquaculture ponds in Arkansas, not in a lab. They have not been genetically altered in any way, they have simply been acclimated to salt water immersion over a 7 year process, and the heartiest specimens were then bred and retained. They stay alive in salt water up to 2 hours, then will die from overexposure to the salinity. I introduced a scientist at the RI DEM to Neil Anderson, owner of the minnow farm, and the 2 of them exchanged information including scientific workups, stats, and pertinent info. DEM then gave permission for them to be shipped into the state for retail sale. No baitshops sold them last year, Myself and 1 other person in RI used them on a trial basis only.
They are legal in many states already, even for freshwater useage. Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, and Mississippi all allow them for dual purpose bait, and they have many more tributaries, ponds, lakes, and other impoundments then New England combined. They have had absolutely no problems with these fish altering in any way the current biological distribution of native species, as they have a tough time getting a foothold in any body of water where a predatory fish lives. CA and FL have allowed the use as saltwater bait while prohibiting fresh water useage, for whatever reasons, but obviously it is possible to get legal status as saltwater bait while not freshwater, as precedence in these states shows.
These baits will be available starting this weekend at Wildwood distributors, Ocean State Tackle, and Sam's Bait and Tackle, while many others are making necessary preparations to have them available in coming weeks. They are an extremely effective alternative to wild harvested bait, and for those of you with doubts as to their effectiveness on large fish, I took a 52.8 pound striper on one in late Oct. , a 49 pound yellowfin out on the edge in Sept. as well as numerous mahi that same trip, and countless jumbo sea bass all year long, along with many other stripers from schoolie up to 38 pounds.
Currently the magnum size of 7-8 inch baits are in limited supply, but by July will be readily available as the farm has devoted a few ponds to get them to that size and even bigger by then. The inshore size is a sure fire bait for sea bass and fluke, and stripers will readily take all 3 sizes. Anyone with any other questions or reservations can contact Anderson farms direct at www.blacksalty.com, or PM me and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.
For those of you concerned that these fish will ruin any freshwater areas, rest assured that extensive sales in freshwater rich states has yielded nothing but positive results. Think of it this way.... how many legally sold Koi or goldfish are transacted in RI each year, and how many ponds do you know of where monster goldfish lurk awaiting your every cast???

[piemma]

What a great post. Thank God there is a voice of reason.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CaptDom

Hi Guys,
Think of it this way.... how many legally sold Koi or goldfish are transacted in RI each year, and how many ponds do you know of where monster goldfish lurk awaiting your every cast???

Excerpt below from 2004, not from Rhody.

"The Indiana Post-Tribune is reporting that the state's Spectacle Lake is infested with, of all things - goldfish (Cyprinus auratus)...This is actually the second time in fifteen years that Spectacle Lake has been overrun with goldfish,...Goldfish can destroy bass nests when they kick up bottom sediments. When they reach critical population levels, they can also drop the dissolved oxygen content of the water to a point that is tolerable to them, but deadly to bass..."

The problem is not isolated to Indiana and not limited to goldfish. It is also well documented. The impact can't be measured by how many goldfish are stealing your bait... although it might impact the #'s of other fish you catch.

The lake on which my inlaws have a cottage in CT has many huge goldfish. How many? Who knows? Their impact on the established populations in the lake? Not been studied ( at least not published...), but take a swim and you will see em.

Hopefully Capt Dom is correct. However, I wonder how long they have been used in the south and who has evaluated the population of salties and impacts of such pop. on ecology of the bodies of freshwater. How can it be said that there has been no impact? I could go on about this all day, but I'll stop. It just seems like there is a potentially large and ultimately unnecessary risk.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by CaptDom

Hi Guys,

Lurked here for a while, never posted as didn't feel appropriate with my profession while not being a sponsor. Like the information exchanged, and the obvious passion you all share for fishing.

That being said, I want to clear up a few things in regards to the Black Salty. These fish are farm raised members of the goldfish family, and were developed in aquaculture ponds in Arkansas, not in a lab. They have not been genetically altered in any way, they have simply been acclimated to salt water immersion over a 7 year process, and the heartiest specimens were then bred and retained.

Depends on your definition of a lab.A laboratory is a controlled environment and the aquaculture ponds of Anderson that these fish were developed in certainly meet that criteria.They WERE developed in a lab.Also selective breeding IS genetic manipution.

Doesn't matter that they die in slatwater there will always be some moron who'll want his own private stash and will throw some in the local pond/lake.Introducing non-native species in a closed freshwater environment is risky.

But again as I said in my original post so far there have been no problems where these baitfish have been used.I'm neither for or against there use,I'm just saying caution is needed.


Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.