Black Salties could ease the no live herring dilemma

[MakoMike]

I talked to dave at Ocean State tackle yesterday and he said they will be carrying them starting next week.

[mikecc]

Just got off the phone with the division of fisheries and wildlife. They said the only way that fish in allowed in MA is DEAD.
Any person having posession of it will be subject to fines and jail.
It is a nonnative species and is not allowed period.
Any person selling the fish in the state will be fined severly & or jail and licences suspended.
They said that selling it for saltwater does not make a differance. It is the fact that it could be introduced to the freshwater lakes and streams.

[CaptDom]

Hi Guys,

Lurked here for a while, never posted as didn't feel appropriate with my profession while not being a sponsor. Like the information exchanged, and the obvious passion you all share for fishing.

That being said, I want to clear up a few things in regards to the Black Salty. These fish are farm raised members of the goldfish family, and were developed in aquaculture ponds in Arkansas, not in a lab. They have not been genetically altered in any way, they have simply been acclimated to salt water immersion over a 7 year process, and the heartiest specimens were then bred and retained. They stay alive in salt water up to 2 hours, then will die from overexposure to the salinity. I introduced a scientist at the RI DEM to Neil Anderson, owner of the minnow farm, and the 2 of them exchanged information including scientific workups, stats, and pertinent info. DEM then gave permission for them to be shipped into the state for retail sale. No baitshops sold them last year, Myself and 1 other person in RI used them on a trial basis only.
They are legal in many states already, even for freshwater useage. Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, and Mississippi all allow them for dual purpose bait, and they have many more tributaries, ponds, lakes, and other impoundments then New England combined. They have had absolutely no problems with these fish altering in any way the current biological distribution of native species, as they have a tough time getting a foothold in any body of water where a predatory fish lives. CA and FL have allowed the use as saltwater bait while prohibiting fresh water useage, for whatever reasons, but obviously it is possible to get legal status as saltwater bait while not freshwater, as precedence in these states shows.
These baits will be available starting this weekend at Wildwood distributors, Ocean State Tackle, and Sam's Bait and Tackle, while many others are making necessary preparations to have them available in coming weeks. They are an extremely effective alternative to wild harvested bait, and for those of you with doubts as to their effectiveness on large fish, I took a 52.8 pound striper on one in late Oct. , a 49 pound yellowfin out on the edge in Sept. as well as numerous mahi that same trip, and countless jumbo sea bass all year long, along with many other stripers from schoolie up to 38 pounds.
Currently the magnum size of 7-8 inch baits are in limited supply, but by July will be readily available as the farm has devoted a few ponds to get them to that size and even bigger by then. The inshore size is a sure fire bait for sea bass and fluke, and stripers will readily take all 3 sizes. Anyone with any other questions or reservations can contact Anderson farms direct at www.blacksalty.com, or PM me and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.
For those of you concerned that these fish will ruin any freshwater areas, rest assured that extensive sales in freshwater rich states has yielded nothing but positive results. Think of it this way.... how many legally sold Koi or goldfish are transacted in RI each year, and how many ponds do you know of where monster goldfish lurk awaiting your every cast???

[piemma]

What a great post. Thank God there is a voice of reason.

[Navy Chief]

I understand that the non-availability or high price of native baits make us search for alternatives but think about the potential for problems with these Black Salties.

Thirty years ago someone said "I'm going to plant this pretty Kudzo in my backyard, what's the harm"

In the 1920's, someone said "Lets let these 10 Starlings fly around Central Park"

"This Water Hyacnth is so pretty" "There's too much Water Hyacnth, lets release some Nutria"

So, while they die in saltwater after a couple hours, in fresh water, given time and perhaps the perfect set of circumstances, they may completely decimate native populations. Ecosystems are balanced things and small things can cause problems.

The removal of wolves in Yellowstone Park in the 1940's led to the erosion of river banks and trout breeding problems.

Throw plugs, they die.

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by Navy Chief

...

Thirty years ago someone said "I'm going to plant this pretty Kudzo in my backyard, what's the harm"

In the 1920's, someone said "Lets let these 10 Starlings fly around Central Park"

...
Throw plugs, they die.

Actually Kudzo was planted by the highway depts to control erosion...

[eelman]

Great post CaptDom! I cant wait to use these things! very exited Livewell.....Boat.....Bassssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssss

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CaptDom

Hi Guys,
Think of it this way.... how many legally sold Koi or goldfish are transacted in RI each year, and how many ponds do you know of where monster goldfish lurk awaiting your every cast???

Excerpt below from 2004, not from Rhody.

"The Indiana Post-Tribune is reporting that the state's Spectacle Lake is infested with, of all things - goldfish (Cyprinus auratus)...This is actually the second time in fifteen years that Spectacle Lake has been overrun with goldfish,...Goldfish can destroy bass nests when they kick up bottom sediments. When they reach critical population levels, they can also drop the dissolved oxygen content of the water to a point that is tolerable to them, but deadly to bass..."

The problem is not isolated to Indiana and not limited to goldfish. It is also well documented. The impact can't be measured by how many goldfish are stealing your bait... although it might impact the #'s of other fish you catch.

The lake on which my inlaws have a cottage in CT has many huge goldfish. How many? Who knows? Their impact on the established populations in the lake? Not been studied ( at least not published...), but take a swim and you will see em.

Hopefully Capt Dom is correct. However, I wonder how long they have been used in the south and who has evaluated the population of salties and impacts of such pop. on ecology of the bodies of freshwater. How can it be said that there has been no impact? I could go on about this all day, but I'll stop. It just seems like there is a potentially large and ultimately unnecessary risk.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by CaptDom

Hi Guys,

Lurked here for a while, never posted as didn't feel appropriate with my profession while not being a sponsor. Like the information exchanged, and the obvious passion you all share for fishing.

That being said, I want to clear up a few things in regards to the Black Salty. These fish are farm raised members of the goldfish family, and were developed in aquaculture ponds in Arkansas, not in a lab. They have not been genetically altered in any way, they have simply been acclimated to salt water immersion over a 7 year process, and the heartiest specimens were then bred and retained.

Depends on your definition of a lab.A laboratory is a controlled environment and the aquaculture ponds of Anderson that these fish were developed in certainly meet that criteria.They WERE developed in a lab.Also selective breeding IS genetic manipution.

Doesn't matter that they die in slatwater there will always be some moron who'll want his own private stash and will throw some in the local pond/lake.Introducing non-native species in a closed freshwater environment is risky.

But again as I said in my original post so far there have been no problems where these baitfish have been used.I'm neither for or against there use,I'm just saying caution is needed.


Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

[Krispy]

Bunker
Scup
cunner
sea bass
shad
mummi
eel
sea robin
snapper

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Bunker
Scup
cunner
sea bass
shad
mummi
eel
sea robin
snapper

you missed one.........BLAAAACK SAAAAAAAAAAAALTTTTYYYYYYYY!!

[piemma]

OK, so here we go with the name calling, personal disparagements and general crap slinging and it's only March 3rd.
I'm not one of the mods on the Board but I get tired of this stuff real quick. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. NOW PLAY NICE!!!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

You missed a "/" on the last quote box...

[Squid kids Dad]

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&..I really think choggie was funnin

[CaptDom]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Depends on your definition of a lab.A laboratory is a controlled environment and the aquaculture ponds of Anderson that these fish were developed in certainly meet that criteria.They WERE developed in a lab.Also selective breeding IS genetic manipution.

Doesn't matter that they die in slatwater there will always be some moron who'll want his own private stash and will throw some in the local pond/lake.Introducing non-native species in a closed freshwater environment is risky.

But again as I said in my original post so far there have been no problems where these baitfish have been used.I'm neither for or against there use,I'm just saying caution is needed.


Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

Okay, if that qualifies for the definition of a lab, so be it. In my minds eye, I picture a lab as a place with test tubes, white lab coats, microscopes, bunson burners, etc., but everyone has their opinions, and I'm not saying yours is incorrect. However, the genes of these fish are not manipulated in any way, but bred to be the heartiest and healthiest they can. Any breeder seeks out the qualities best desired in a certain species, much as horse breeders, dog breeders, etc, would, so I must disagree with your assessment that they are genetically altered. Semantics would be the case here, as genetic manipulation is a very bad way to describe the simple selective breeding to make a species strong, in my opinion. I am agreeing with you wholeheartedly on the need for care with any introduced species to a closed environment, and in no way do I condone or encourage some yahoo to start throwing them enmasse into fresh water, period. I guess in all walks of life there will be differing opinions, I'll have to be satisfied with those that will embrace these fish and use them successfully and responsibly, and hopefully none of the concerns that have been raised here will ever come to pass with Black Saltys or any other fish.

I hope everyone has a good start to the season, I know that the squid run has started, the mackeral are showing, and keepers to 15 pounds have been landed in the bay. Won't be long till we are all occupied with tight lines and fat fish, and can leave the hypothetical debates till winter ....

[Sea Dangles]

Anxiously awaiting #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s rebuttal.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by CaptDom

I hope everyone has a good start to the season, I know that the squid run has started, the mackeral are showing, and keepers to 15 pounds have been landed in the bay. Won't be long till we are all occupied with tight lines and fat fish, and can leave the hypothetical debates till winter ....

Yup....
heard the macks were bruisers.... headed out tonight

[Nebe]

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, you are fooling yourself if you think your enviromentally minded when you fish. You have stated yourself on this forum that if eels were added to the endangered species act, you would still use them and that you are certian there will be a black market for them..

If you were truely an enviro-mental friendly fisherman, you wouldnt use eels at all, but instead you are truely concerned with one thing..I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.

If you care to argue this, answer one question for me..
How many bass and eels did you kill last season??

Its your kind of mentallity that broght on the bass moratorium

I could go on, but i think you get my point.