A Day Without Immigrants!

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by spence

BigFish -

I'm saying your notion that illegals don't also contribute is false, not that they don't draw from the system. This shouldn't be that difficult a concept to process...

Scott -

All politics aside, that's just technically not possible.

-spence

HAHAHA, everything I said is easily done, it is not technically impossible, it is POLITICALLY impossible, you have it backwards. We need people is politics who are not afraid to do what is unpopular, and we need to make lobyist illegal.

[Flaptail]

Immigrants are not "bad" people. We are all descendents of immigrants unless you have Native American blood running through your veins, which I am blessed to have some running through mine. Talk about people who got screwed and still are. Anyway, my ancestors spoke only Polish/Russian/Lithuanian and French when they landed here. ( My Great x 6 Grandfather was A French Baron who escaped the Guilotine and came here and married a full blooded MicMac indian woman). Some of your might have been English or Irish or Scottish and knew English already (Irish and Scottish in a modified form), thats great.

Immigrants and the cultural mix is what made this country great. Otherwise we would be like a bunch of inbred dogs. Look at what happened to Irish Setters. The problem we have is that we need to set up better parameters for entrance into, stayiing in and becoming a citizen of, this country. It's too easy right now to enter from Mexico and latin America. My Grand father emigrated here at 13 speaking only Polish and Russian. He had to endure Ellis Island. He taught himself english and became a citizen. That's all these people need to do, especially in the dangerous age we live in.

Most of them work hard, very hard. Do we need the gangs like ms13 and such and the ones who choose to belong to them? No. But most of the Latino community would agree with that as well. All we ask is that they adopt a simple set of rules, they do not have to abandon thier culture or language but they do have to adopt ours and the principals we live by as Americans. Italians have Columbus Day, Irish have St. Patricks Day and so on, celebrating thier culture and it's great. The Latino community can too but we need rules and if they choose to stay here then take the final step and become a Latino-American. I think the fine proposed is the right step. It will be the impetus for them to finally make the decision to go or stay. They are more than welcome to stay.

Lastly the Spanish version of the National Anthem is not correct. We would never do that to the Mexican Anthem, the Brazilian anthem and so on. Although, as a child going to a Parochial school, we were forced by the Sister's of Saint Anne, a Canadian order of Nuns, to sing the Au Canada first each morning before the Star Spangled Banner and no one complained, Never sat right with me or anyone I went to school with but our parents, my mother especially, who was french Canadian, loved it. It was just wrong and so is a spanish Star Spangled Banner with wording changed.

That's my two cents on this issue.

[Karl F]

agreed Flap... however, my grandparents came in with papers.. as I am sure yours did... and they did not demand that people spoke their langauge, they adapted english, (not perfect, but worked on it as a lifelong chore, no prouder day for them, when the became "U.S. Citizens ), and assimilated to this country...

I know several "legal" aliens.. all decent hardworking folk, who work hard to speak english, and live by the book.. they are peer pressured by their community tho, to support the illegals, kind of sad, in a way, that has to happen.. "Illegal's Rights"... kind of an oxymoron, I'd say....

"Jose, Can you see?"... yeah, leave the anthem alone, Please.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Karl F

agreed Flap... however, my grandparents came in with papers.. as I am sure yours did... and they did not demand that people spoke their langauge, they adapted english, (not perfect, but worked on it as a lifelong chore, no prouder day for them, when the became "U.S. Citizens ), and assimilated to this country...

I know several "legal" aliens.. all decent hardworking folk, who work hard to speak english, and live by the book.. they are peer pressured by their community tho, to support the illegals, kind of sad, in a way, that has to happen.. "Illegal's Rights"... kind of an oxymoron, I'd say....

"Jose, Can you see?"... yeah, leave the anthem alone, Please.

Bingo! Illegals have ZERO rights! They gave up thier rights when they decided to say F the system and sneek over the order ILLEGALLY. And you and me are paying for this illegal behavior..... Let them all stay home from work today, lets show them this country can run just fine without the illegals.

[vineyardblues]

Hey read the paper please, A whole bunch of immigrants just landed at the airport. They are called alot of things , but most of all Dam Yankee's.... Kick them bastages out of town quick!
VB

[cheferson]

[Skip N]

No one cares about "legal" imigrants in this country. We encourage imagration when you do it the "legal" way. What Flaptail and many others like to ignore is the whole Legal vs. Illegal issue. Why are you guys trying to lump "illegal" imigrants in the same breathe as "legals"? There is a big differance guys. You come here the right way like my ancestors did or you dont come here at all. If you dont want to obey the laws of the US get the hell out. Do it right or stay the hell away.

I'm sick of people making excuses for the illegals and accepting thier behavior. These people are a slap in the face to the people who come to this country right way. Why the hell you people dont get that is beyond me. But then again you guys prob want open borders so everyone can flock to this country without the US doing any backround checks on these people or whatnot.

You come here legaly or you dont come here at all!

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Skip N

No one cares about "legal" imigrants in this country. We encourage imagration when you do it the "legal" way. What Flaptail and many others like to ignore is the whole Legal vs. Illegal issue. Why are you guys trying to lump "illegal" imigrants in the same breathe as "legals"? There is a big differance guys. You come here the right way like my ancestors did or you dont come here at all. If you dont want to obey the laws of the US get the hell out. Do it right or stay the hell away.

I'm sick of people making excuses for the illegals and accepting thier behavior. These people are a slap in the face to the people who come to this country right way. Why the hell you people dont get that is beyond me. But then again you guys prob want open borders so everyone can flock to this country without the US doing any backround checks on these people or whatnot.

You come here legaly or you dont come here at all!

Did you read the post coprrectly? I am not in favor of illegal immigration.

[BigFish]

Duke...definitely was not insulting your Grand-Dad......he came the right way and I applaud him for, like you said, his bravery to make such a move.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Did you read the post coprrectly? I am not in favor of illegal immigration.

Yeah i just re-read your post. I see what your saying. I think we're accually on the same page in many ways.

Especially the Spanish National Anthem. Thats just lame, they won't get any bonus points from Americans on that one. If anything it'll hurt thier cause more.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Lastly the Spanish version of the National Anthem is not correct.

I'm not sure what all the flap is over this Spanish version of our National Anthem, aside from zenophobia...

Jimi Hendrix ticked a lot of people off with his version, but guess what? It was simply Jimi expressing his love for America in his own way...it was his version...

If a hispanic person wants to express their feelings for America in Spanish I don't see what the problem is...it doesn't mean it has to be played at baseball games!

-spence

[Backbeach Jake]

From where I sit , I see a lot of folks coming here for a better life. They may be illegal, But our Government gives a nod and wink to Big Business whenever their legality comes up. Why? Because they compete with Legal Labor. They are our competition.They keep our wages in check. I don't hate them for it , they're taking what they can get. I AM pissed at out Government for allowing this to happen to keep us devided among our selves. The middle working class is disappearing in this Country and we're rapidly turning into Wealthy/Peasants. No Middle Class. We work harder and harder and get less and less. Because our illegal competition does without complaint. For my two cents, we all shoulda been in the streets today. We all deserve better.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

From where I sit , I see a lot of folks coming here for a better life. They may be illegal, But our Government gives a nod and wink to Big Business whenever their legality comes up. Why? Because they compete with Legal Labor. They are our competition.They keep our wages in check. I don't hate them for it , they're taking what they can get. I AM pissed at out Government for allowing this to happen to keep us devided among our selves. The middle working class is disappearing in this Country and we're rapidly turning into Wealthy/Peasants. No Middle Class. We work harder and harder and get less and less. Because our illegal competition does without complaint. For my two cents, we all shoulda been in the streets today. We all deserve better.

You hit the nail on the head Fred. (a little carpenter humor) Soon it will be the "HAVES" and the "HAVE NOTS". And guess where the average blue collar guy will be. Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against anyone here legally. My mothers side of the family came here in 1634. And my fathers side came here in the 1800s. We are all of immigrant descent wether it be 2 years ago or 300 years ago. The big difference is that they stayed and made this home. They didn't just come here to make a bunch of "duckets" and skedaddle home to live more comfortably than their neighbors.

[stripersnipr]

Why do some people refuse to use the word illegal when talking about criminals who have purposely defied and violated our immigration laws by entering our country ILLEGALY? Its a slap in the face to those who have entered our country through the rightful process and "contribute" in an above board manner.

[Backbeach Jake]

Stripersnipr, this is how they devide us. The law says that they are illegal. Those in power do absolutely nothing about it and as a matter of fact they encourage it back handedly. We legals are outraged that they are here not that we're getting screwed. We're being PLAYED against one another. All they want is a chance. Just a shot at a better life. And our politicians(whores) are selling themselves , the illegals , and us.

[freeballin]

Big Deal..... My kid FINALLY got to use the NEW Lawnmower......

[Kadywampus]

How about this as law ?

Only professionals or investors can immigrate to the country , no unskilled laborers will be allowed in .
Immigrants may purchase property but locations and availability are limited .Ocean front property is restricted to citizens born in the country.
Immigrants cannot vote or be elected to any public office.
Immigrants cannot collect any type of Government assistance.
Immigrants cannot protest Government policies or the President.
Immigrants cannot display the flag of a foreign country .
Any Immigrant who enters the country illegally will be imprisoned .


This is the law in Mexico .

[Kadywampus]

Originally Posted by Kadywampus

How about this as law ?

Only professionals or investors can immigrate to the country , no unskilled laborers will be allowed in .
Immigrants may purchase property but locations and availability are limited .Ocean front property is restricted to citizens born in the country.
Immigrants cannot vote or be elected to any public office.
Immigrants cannot collect any type of Government assistance.
Immigrants cannot protest Government policies or the President.
Immigrants cannot display the flag of a foreign country .
Any Immigrant who enters the country illegally will be imprisoned .


This is the law in Mexico .

And this is the law for LEGAL immigrants .

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Why do some people refuse to use the word illegal when talking about criminals who have purposely defied and violated our immigration laws by entering our country ILLEGALY? Its a slap in the face to those who have entered our country through the rightful process and "contribute" in an above board manner.

Right on Bro They dont use the ILLEGAL word becuase it doesnt fit thier agenda. They know damn well what this debate is about, but they try an lump all imigrants in with the Illegals. Anyone who talks like you stated is a disshonest liar. People see right through thier lies thankfully. Well most of us do anyway....

[cheferson]

Why don't we deport all the American citizens (also criminals) who employ illegal immigrants??

[Raven]

Originally Posted by cheferson

Why don't we deport all the American citizens (also criminals) who employ illegal immigrants??

since 9-11-01 .............when security supposedly got tighter only 3 companies were fined for hiring illegal aliens...in the USA

that was down from before 9-11 and essentially the government
is just looking the other way....

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by cheferson

Why don't we deport all the American citizens (also criminals) who employ illegal immigrants??

Well, they are American citizens so i dont know where you can deport them too. They should be fined though. This is a totaly seperate issue than what we've been discussing. However, employers couldn't hire illigals if the Illegals were'nt here here in the first place!

Its still mind boggling how people avoid this issue and change the subject to avoid the LEGAL vs. ILLEGAL debate. Illegalls cut in front of the line and knowone cares? WTF?? Hell, next time i'm at Disneyworld i'm going right to the front of all the lines, screw all the people that are in front of me. I'm doing it MY way and they can all kiss my ass. And i'm hoping all you guys here who defend the Illegals for cutting in line will defend me for cutting in also. Sound kinda familar doesnt it?

[spence]

Who's defending illegals cutting in line?

-spence

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Skip N

However, employers couldn't hire illigals if the Illegals were'nt here here in the first place!

What kind of nonsense is that....."Gee your honor, I wouldn't have robbed that liqour store if it wasn't there in the 1st Place"

That isn't an excuse for Illegal Hiring Practices...They're breaking the law just as much as the Illegal Immigrants are....even worse.

At least The ones getting hired are doing so to put food on the table....the ones doing the hiring are doing so to take advantage of them and the system.

How about a little jail time to the people doing the hiring instead of a fine....Lets see I saved $20 000 this year by having this Mexican woman clean my house but they just fined me $5,000.....i'm still up $15,000.......not bad

[Duke41]

Wow we have a lot of characters on this board and I am one of them. Bigfish I know you were not insulting my grand dad I was just making a point that spainish and indians speaking folks are here for the same reason your and my ancestors came. For a better life. I am sure there are some, a small percentage that play the system as do plenty of Americans, but I am also certain that many come here for a fresh start in a free country. I always try to keep that in mind when I deal with these folks. So have a nice day and keep on spreading the love.

[spence]

Originally Posted by ScottC

HAHAHA, everything I said is easily done, it is not technically impossible, it is POLITICALLY impossible, you have it backwards.

Horse hockey.

Aside from the logistical issues of deporting 11 million people, you have to replace their jobs with legal workers who are protected by different state and federal laws.

The impact to our economy would be devistating and impossible to counter...Unless you have a 100 year plan...

-spence

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by spence

Horse hockey.

Aside from the logistical issues of deporting 11 million people, you have to replace their jobs with legal workers who are protected by different state and federal laws.

The impact to our economy would be devistating and impossible to counter...Unless you have a 100 year plan...

-spence

It would not be devestating at all, and I already handed you a place to get these workers, and do not have to be protected by anything, you do know minimum wage is more than 2 bucks a day right? The ACI workers get paid less than illegals already, and there is absolutely no shortage of inmates in the USA. Sure it would be hard to deport 11 million people, but if we do not, then we might as well burn our constitution and bill of rights as they mean nothing. We were able to invade and occupy two countrys in less than 2 years, and they had weapons! You mean to tell me our armed forces could not make a huge dent in the illegal alien problem in our own country? You gravely underestimate the power we wield.

[spence]

Originally Posted by ScottC

It would not be devestating at all, and I already handed you a place to get these workers, and do not have to be protected by anything, you do know minimum wage is more than 2 bucks a day right? The ACI workers get paid less than illegals already, and there is absolutely no shortage of inmates in the USA. Sure it would be hard to deport 11 million people, but if we do not, then we might as well burn our constitution and bill of rights as they mean nothing. We were able to invade and occupy two countrys in less than 2 years, and they had weapons! You mean to tell me our armed forces could not make a huge dent in the illegal alien problem in our own country? You gravely underestimate the power we wield.

I love it, your reference for feesability are two military actions where the desired outcome ended up killing tens of thousands of innocent people

And according to the DOJ there are only about 2.1 million inmates, not quite the numbers necessary for your plan. Given you probably don't want the harder criminals out in the fields, the pool is quite a bit smaller than that.

Besides, what would happen if crime rates fell! Would we have to enact tougher laws to ensure the prison population was able to supply the needed people-power to keep the produce flowing

-spence

[beamie]

This issue is very easy.

No one is against LEGAL immigration. That is what this country is about.

It is the immigrants who are here ILLEGALLY who want to side step the process that is the problem.

If I were an immigrant going through the process legally I'd be pissed.

Heard an immigrant on the radio this morning going thru the process legally was asked if he'd go to war for the country. He said yes but he wasn't a citizen. I THINK WHAT ALLOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A CITIZEN TO BE IN THE ARMY, NAVY, AIR FORCE, MARINES OR COAST GAURD. but you do have to be a legal. That is a great loophole to becoming a citizen is join the military for a number of years, you'll get your citizenship through them.

[timf]

Spence,

Where are you getting your numbers for the monies that illegals put into US? All kidding/bitching aside, I truly would like to read this.

One irrefutable fact is that all border states are having huge financial problems due in large part (not 100%) in the drain illegal immigrants put on the local economy. Here is some information from a non-partisan (have not vetted them on this count) group:

QUOTE
The small picture, too, is a concern, said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. Although he concedes that definite benefits for some specific sectors of the economy come from the illegal workforce, the overall costs to American citizens outweighs the benefits of illegal immigration.

"There's no question that illegal immigration, that unskilled immigration of all kinds, is a losing proposition," Krikorian said.

Krikorian's group just released a study this week that says illegal immigration is most harming the unskilled sector of the labor force. Krikorian said it shows current U.S. immigration policy isn't looking out for its own citizens.

A study of Census Bureau data revealed that while U.S. unemployment is under 5 percent, unemployment among high school dropouts is 14 percent and among those with only a high school education is about 7 percent, he said.

Krikorian said that shows that despite the claims otherwise, for non-immigrants "there isn't full employment in the low-skilled labor market."

Krikorian said that until immigration policy changes, the problem boils down to a simple point — low-wage citizen workers are being crowded out of low-pay jobs by illegal immigrants.
END QUOTE

tim