Black Salties could ease the no live herring dilemma

[Clammer]

& country western woman are awesome

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by Clammer

& country western woman are awesome

Ride 'em cowboy..

[Gloucester2]

Nebe - that comment is worthless without pictures .. .

[TheSpecialist]

I had sent off an email to Mass fish and wildlife. They replied that the bait fish was illegal for "use as a freshwater baitfish". They then stated that I should check with the Division of marine fisheries about importing and sale for saltwater baitfish. I am still waiting for a reply.

You may not use that baitfish for freshwater fishing in Massachusetts. If you want to import and sell them as saltwater baitfish, you need to contact the DIvision of Marine FIsheries for permits and guidance. I will include them in this email.


www.mass.gov/masswildlife

Subscribe to MassWildlife News, a free electronic monthly newsletter updating you on research, events, new laws and other agency activities. All you need to do is send an email to:

Join-MassWildlife.news@listserv.state.ma.us

MassWildlife serves you from the following District Offices:
Western, Pittsfield 413/447-9789--Conn.Valley, Belchertown 413/323-7632--Central, W. Boylston 508/835-3607--Northeast, Acton 978/263-4347--Southeast, Buzzards Bay 508/759-3406

Make a wild investment in Massachusetts by making a donation to the Natural Heritage & Endangered Species Fund!


-----Original Message-----
From: William [mailto:mitsdog@verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:40 PM
To: Wildlife, Mass (FWE)
Subject: Baitfish


I was wondering if this baitfish is legal for sale by shops in Massachusetts. I want to get my local shops to carry them; they seem to be a good substitute for live herring. They were carried by tackle shops in RI last year.





http://www.blacksalty.com/index.html









Thanks,



William Mitsiopoulos.

[CaptDom]

I too contacted MA DFW, and they said that the only restrictions they could find were specifically as a FRESHWATER BAIT. The gentleman I spoke with said he could not find any regulation which prohibited possession or use in saltwater. It is legal to possess goldfish in the state of MA, so simple possesion will not get you into any trouble, that much is certain. We are waiting to get written documentation describing any legalities for saltwater use.

[Parker650]

Just my $0.02...

"There is no way we can go back to the way it was before man meddled, but we can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

Can you honestly say that EXTENSIVE knowledge has been gained over the last 6-7 years that these fish have been 'developed' to come to a solid, definitive answer that these fish won't displace an ecosystem? Even though man may have altered what was native prior to us messing with it does not make it ok to do so presently. Why not preserve what we have and prevent any further impacts by not messing with our ecosystem at all? We already know the issues that have come up, why even entertain this. Preserve is the key, not introducing other species to manipulate an ecosystem that we feel is 'flourishing' with our idea of good species. I think people should start re-thinking and putting their efforts into re-habilitating rivers, ponds, whatever to promote what thrives there naturally. Maybe what is there wasn't native 1000 years ago, but it certainly isn't going to do us any good by changing what is here now any more.


"We can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

You could achieve this easily...go fishing in your own aquarium.

"This fish has been used in many states with freshwater bodies for some time now, and it has only improved the fishing. Recreational fishing is a 60 billion $$ plus economy with well over 40 million participants. These fish will take great pressure off a strained baitfish population, a good thing as pogies, eels, and herring are in serious trouble."

I find it ironic that your statement of how these fish have improved fishing is supported by economic $$$ numbers. This is why we are where we are today. Man will use/abuse any resource available on this earth to make a $ and can justify it because of the $$$ to be had in doing so. Stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of natural ecosystems. Yes they have been manipulated by us. No they won't be any better if we keep messing with them. ANY non-native fish introduced into an ecosystem WILL displace that ecosystem. There is no way around it. Those fish have to eat and take up space. They will have an impact and will effect other organisms within that system, one way or the other.

Seems to me like there is $$$ behind this motive. I'm not buying it...I'll second the vote for plugs.

[eelman]

OMG....All this over a goldfish.Use the damn things in Saltwater and dont worry about it...To much time thinking and not enough time fishing.....Of all things people are "concerned" over using a golfish as bait..JUST FISH.....................

[CaptDom]

Originally Posted by Parker650

Just my $0.02...

"There is no way we can go back to the way it was before man meddled, but we can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

Can you honestly say that EXTENSIVE knowledge has been gained over the last 6-7 years that these fish have been 'developed' to come to a solid, definitive answer that these fish won't displace an ecosystem? Even though man may have altered what was native prior to us messing with it does not make it ok to do so presently. Why not preserve what we have and prevent any further impacts by not messing with our ecosystem at all? We already know the issues that have come up, why even entertain this. Preserve is the key, not introducing other species to manipulate an ecosystem that we feel is 'flourishing' with our idea of good species. I think people should start re-thinking and putting their efforts into re-habilitating rivers, ponds, whatever to promote what thrives there naturally. Maybe what is there wasn't native 1000 years ago, but it certainly isn't going to do us any good by changing what is here now any more.


"We can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

You could achieve this easily...go fishing in your own aquarium.

"This fish has been used in many states with freshwater bodies for some time now, and it has only improved the fishing. Recreational fishing is a 60 billion $$ plus economy with well over 40 million participants. These fish will take great pressure off a strained baitfish population, a good thing as pogies, eels, and herring are in serious trouble."

I find it ironic that your statement of how these fish have improved fishing is supported by economic $$$ numbers. This is why we are where we are today. Man will use/abuse any resource available on this earth to make a $ and can justify it because of the $$$ to be had in doing so. Stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of natural ecosystems. Yes they have been manipulated by us. No they won't be any better if we keep messing with them. ANY non-native fish introduced into an ecosystem WILL displace that ecosystem. There is no way around it. Those fish have to eat and take up space. They will have an impact and will effect other organisms within that system, one way or the other.

Seems to me like there is $$$ behind this motive. I'm not buying it...I'll second the vote for plugs.

Parker, you are obviously dedicated to conservation and preservation, for that I commend you. However, you are assuming that just because these fish are now available to the public that they will be purposefully introduced to a body of fresh water, or if so, will dramatically effect resident populations therein. The same threat has existed since the very first non native fish became available to the public in petshops and baitshops countrywide and abroad as many exotics have been available for a long time; so yes, the inherent threat exists with this, and many, many other species. However, what would these fish mess up in an isolated case where they thrived, the anglers ability to catch other "gamefish", which may be non native species themselves?

I'm not sure what is ironic about my mentioning of the recreational fishing industry and the amount of anglers/money involved. Money makes the world go round, and is an underlying issue with almost any topic concievable today. I mentioned it because an economic gain in todays world is in my opinion a good thing, plain and simple, especially if it also takes pressure off a "natural" species stock that has serious problems in todays world..

As far as fishing in a body of water that has been manipulated by man, there are not many ponds or lakes available to the public that don't have an introduced specie in it. Largemouth and smallmouth bass have been introduced worldwide, and have even inter bred with other species in those bodies of water, yet most would view that as a positive. I don't need to fish in my own aquarium to achieve this, just go to my local pond or stream and catch one of the many available stocked, or introduced fish. I brought up man meddling because it is a fact that I, nor anyone else, can now change. However, I do find it interesting that a recreational angler such as yourself who now benefits from man meddling, i.e. striped bass recovery, trout hatcheries, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, could have such a problem with it. I am not saying that a problem couldn't arise, but in my mind is miniscule in comparison with the positives that come with the very small negative attached to the Black Salty.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours. However, the fact remains that this fish will be used in RI, and hopefully responsibly by all those purchasing them. I would never want to see a species destroy or irrevocably change any of our bodies of water, yet I see only benefits from these baits, not problems, whether my stance is founded in economic or personal reasons is a mute issue.

[JFigliuolo]

In salt water, I don't see an issue. These fish WILL die in a few hours (Hopefully sooner )

In fresh water I might be able to see how they MIGHT cause a problem. That's MIGHT, MAYBE, etc...

But for the salt, IF they take pressure off of native bait I say