black salties-cannot ship to ri

[CaptDom]

Originally Posted by spence

Given the raw numbers of fish potentially to be imported, to equate this with "pet shop" goldfish smacks of spin.

If the importer doesn't have a permit good for this year then they will have to follow the existing process, even if it's different.

I'm not trying to be a #^&#^&#^&#^& here, but I just don't see how the economic welfare of a few baitshops would be really harmed by a product that they've never sold...assuming the state has a valid legal reason to delay or forbid the sale as neighboring states have.

-spence

Again, the importer renewed the permit for 2006, but it is now on hold. What you are not realizing is that if the bio security council rules that the Carrasius auratus is a threat, ALL importation will have to stop. Its not just the fishing realm this will affect. How can you differentiate a fish with the exact taxonomy(genetic makeup) and exact latin scientific name simply because of where it sold? The answer is you can't. The fact remains that no law exists prohibiting their use as a bait in RI, period. You can't make up the rules as you go. They have had over 200 years to put a rule in the books dealing with this fish, and they didn't do it.

Neighboring states never gave a permit in the first place, the issue here is a permit was given, so the minnow farm spent tons of money dedicating several ponds to grow their minnows larger for use here, spent tons of money to advertise them and develop a distributorship, as have many local baitshops under the pretense that a permit was issued already(in 2005 and 2006).Advertising, live wells, and time =$$. The economic impact will also affect every petshop in the state, and every school child who keeps one as a pet as it is the importation of the fish they are challenging, if denied, all goldfish will have to be banned or they will be in violation of the ruling.
Their are studies galore on this fish and its supposed impacts, available to anyone who asks the for them or has the inclination to inform themselves; god forbid anyone actually do a little research before weighing in on anything . 80 years of use as a bait in both salt and fresh water in Texas should be an ample study sampling, don't you think? The amount of predators in the watersheds down there does not differ substantially from any other states, nor does how or what they eat.

[basswipe]

As far as a little research goes the Black Salty is none of these:
http://species.fishindex.com/species..._goldfish.html
Related yes...carassius auratus no.Its an engineered fish.

RI has had over 200 years to put a rule in the books?How do you come up with that?They've been tested in TX for 80yrs?Huh?Anderson Farms has only been in business 50yrs.The Black Salty itself beginnings were in the 90s.

As far as predators in other watersheds like in TX.Lets see there's Stripers,Hybrid Stripers,Redfish,Corvina,Gar,several Catfish species.
None of these can be found in NE waters.

The Black Salty has potential but I see a little more scientific research needing to be done before I want it here.

Btw quote all the rules and regs you want it ain't a minnow its a member of the goldfish family.

[basswipe]

Cap you either gotta be a salesman for Anderson or a stock holder in the company.You're WAY to defensive over these fish.Your life doesn't depend on these fish does it?

I'm done with this thread.Time to head BACK out and get MORE bass.

[CaptDom]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Cap you either gotta be a salesman for Anderson or a stock holder in the company.You're WAY to defensive over these fish.Your life doesn't depend on these fish does it?

I'm done with this thread.Time to head BACK out and get MORE bass.

Actually I am the RI distributor for these if the RI DEM decides to lift their ban. My life doesn't depend on it, but I obviously have interests in it. I live on Aquidneck Island, and fish the same waters as you on a daily basis throughout the year. I also hold a Biology degree, and run a charter outfit as well. I am merely trying to educate the public when it puts forth misinformation and conjecture. It is natural for anyone with a vested interst whether it be economic, emotional, or otherwise to defend something that is important to them. I have done major research over the last year and a half, and spent alot of time and energy working within the guidelines of the RI general laws to insure this fish was safe and legal. I care very much about our resources here, as my livelihood depends on a healthy and diverse coastal watershed. Without it I would be out of work. I would certainly not jeapordize it in any way, and in my very informed opinion this fish can only help take the pressure off the herring, menhaden, and eel stocks while presenting no threat to the "native species"( Many of which were not indigenous but are now referred to as native, i.e largemouth bass). Not to mention make me a bit of much needed money.

PS, I had bass up to 18 pounds in the bay the last 3 days. Our charter on Thur. had over 130 bass to the boat, 29 of them keepers. Many were caught on the Black Salty.

[basswipe]

Exactly.You have a vested interest.Imagine that.

[CaptDom]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Exactly.You have a vested interest.Imagine that.

In more ways than one, as I stated. I see no problem with my "vested"association with this, or my correction of gross mis statements and outright fallicies, anyone would do the same. Nor am I being malicious in any way here, I am merely stating facts as opposed to conjecture. I wonder why you have such a problem with the baits and indirectly me?

[basswipe]

I guess you haven't really read any of my posts then.Exactly where in my posts did I say I have problem with "the baits" or indirectly with you?

Originally all I stated was I was concerned with invasive freshwater species, the black salty being possibly an invasive species.

As far as facts go you ain't posting any.

PS.Sorry Joe I know you started this thread as something informative but its got out of hand.My apoligies.

Relax cappy.Let it go.

This being the original thread:http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ad.php?t=31075

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by CaptDom

Actually I am the RI distributor for these if the RI DEM decides to lift their ban. My life doesn't depend on it, but I obviously have interests in it. I live on Aquidneck Island, and fish the same waters as you on a daily basis throughout the year. I also hold a Biology degree, and run a charter outfit as well. I am merely trying to educate the public when it puts forth misinformation and conjecture. It is natural for anyone with a vested interst whether it be economic, emotional, or otherwise to defend something that is important to them. I have done major research over the last year and a half, and spent alot of time and energy working within the guidelines of the RI general laws to insure this fish was safe and legal. I care very much about our resources here, as my livelihood depends on a healthy and diverse coastal watershed. Without it I would be out of work. I would certainly not jeapordize it in any way, and in my very informed opinion this fish can only help take the pressure off the herring, menhaden, and eel stocks while presenting no threat to the "native species"( Many of which were not indigenous but are now referred to as native, i.e largemouth bass). Not to mention make me a bit of much needed money.

PS, I had bass up to 18 pounds in the bay the last 3 days. Our charter on Thur. had over 130 bass to the boat, 29 of them keepers. Many were caught on the Black Salty.

READ ABOVE

[RIROCKHOUND]

I stand corrected....
Oh well...

[Squid kids Dad]

He does seem affiliated with the black salties success...Read his previous posts...

[CaptDom]

Originally Posted by basswipe

As far as a little research goes the Black Salty is none of these:
http://species.fishindex.com/species..._goldfish.html
Related yes...carassius auratus no.Its an engineered fish.

RI has had over 200 years to put a rule in the books?How do you come up with that?They've been tested in TX for 80yrs?Huh?Anderson Farms has only been in business 50yrs.The Black Salty itself beginnings were in the 90s.

As far as predators in other watersheds like in TX.Lets see there's Stripers,Hybrid Stripers,Redfish,Corvina,Gar,several Catfish species.
None of these can be found in NE waters.

The Black Salty has potential but I see a little more scientific research needing to be done before I want it here.

The first recorded goldfish was imported in RI in the early 1800's. By my math that makes 200 years or so.

The bottom picture in your link is of the dark variety carrasius auratus, which is the INTERNATIONALLY CERTIFIED taxonomy of the Black Salty. That picture looks like the majority of the Black Saltys shipped on a regular basis. The Black Salty is a Goldfish, plain and simple, its beginnings were hundreds of years ago, its trademarked and copyrighted nickname were created in the late 90's after much consideration by the farm that decided to market them.

Goldfish dark and orange variety, have been used in TX as a bait for 80 plus years, again the Black Salty is a common goldfish with advanced selective breeding techniques to exhibit remarkable short term salt water survival.

The amount, or distribution percentage of predators in each states watershed is waht I was referring to, not species. Last I checked we had several species of catfish, stripers, and a few predators Texas doesn't have. Thank god we don't have hybrid stripers, in my opinion. The fact remains that in any body of water, a chain exists and resident fish will occupy a percentage of the given biomass for each specific body of water. The distributions of these fish does not greatly vary in any way in almost all closed environments in the US except where an invasive species has wreaked havoc.

Before you go claiming something was engineered, do your homework. The term genetically modified, engineered, or altered has a very specific and exact definition as deemed by the international governing body Codex Alimentarious Commission. Since the breeding techniques used by Anderson farms do not alter or modify the gene makeup of these fish, and they use commonly practiced selective breeding techniques, this exludes the fish from any association with a genetically manipulated organism.
The USDA defines the term "genetically modified" to mean methods "including cell fusion, microencapsulation, recombitant DNA technology(including gene deletion, gene doubling, introducing a foreign gene, and changing positions of genes). they further state in CFR 7 205.2 the term genetically modified, altered, or engineered specifically excludes "traditional breeding including selective breeding practices, fermentation, or in vitro fertilization."

CFR 40 725.455 states the EPA succintly defines "genetic modification, alteration, or engineering as introduced genetic material".

Under even the broadest definition these fish do not even come close to being genetically engineered, manipulated, or altered, period. Quit claiming otherwise.

Selective breeding practices have been used in the US since the 1700's, in everything from horses, cattle, pigs, chickens, and many other animals. For that matter, humans engage in selective breeding by seeking out a well formed, healthy, and attractive mate to reproduce.

If you want volumes of scientific research, I can provide you with that as well. The State of RI and most other states defers to the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluffs for their taxonomy and studies in regards to fisheries/aquaculture, and this UAPB authority conducted a five year study of many different aspects of this fish, with many publications put forth as a result, including but not limited to its taxonomy; common goldfish, dark variety. All the research one could want has already been conducted, so no further tests should be needed. In addition, the USDA, USGS in conjunction with APHIS, and the US Fish and Wildlife all have done studies and rendered very similar conclusions and research in regards to the impact of this fish on native species. They all seem to state unequivocably that these fish are not an invasive species anywhere they currently inhabit in the wild.Every state except Alaska has resident goldfish in the wild, and 46 states have breeding populations, including RI. That would pretty much conclude that they are an acceptable species on a national level, no?

PM me with your email address if you want hard copies of all these studies and certifications, don't just take my word for it. Knowledge is essential for any informed decisions.

btw, i never claimed it was a minnow, the state of RI did by their own definition. I always asserted it was a goldfish.