Israel and World War III part four

[MakoMike]

Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Ahhh, that seems to be the Newt Gingrich line that's been floating around the net...

But it's nothing more than self serving rhetoric. The world isn't black and white...

-spence

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by spence

Ahhh, that seems to be the Newt Gingrich line that's been floating around the net...

But it's nothing more than self serving rhetoric. The world isn't black and white...

-spence

Are you saying that its not true?

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Are you saying that its not true?

Yes, I think it's complete BS intended to present a black or white option...

-spence

[MakoMike]

Spence,
O.K. what part of it do you disagree with. Do you think the Israelis would continue to attack hezbolla if they laid down their arms and said they wouldn't fight anymore? Or do you disagree that Hezbolla would overrun Israel and massacar the jews if they didn't put up a resistance?

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Spence,
O.K. what part of it do you disagree with. Do you think the Israelis would continue to attack hezbolla if they laid down their arms and said they wouldn't fight anymore? Or do you disagree that Hezbolla would overrun Israel and massacar the jews if they didn't put up a resistance?

I think the entire statement is bunk, here's my typical long winded response. It's so humid my fingers are sticking to the keyboard, and I can't get them free

Put simply, it's not an objetive statement. It's a wedge intended to influence people to one side only.

On that basis alone I reject it's value, because I don't want to be manupulated. by someone with an agenda.

It's unfortunate that our Puritan roots so easily push us into black or white decisions...but the real world is quite gray.

The reality is that the majority of Christian Arabs in the region support Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance organization formed in response to Israeli occupation.

Additionally, Hezbolla provides social and health programs for a very large population. This is in stark contrast to the holocost scenario presented in the statement.

That doesn't mean they're your perfect next door neighbor, certainly they're guilty of horrific acts. But Israel doesn't exactly have a clear record either, and from an Arab perspective...it's worse!

More to the point.

I believe that there are just as many uber Zionists who want to take all of the West Bank from the Palestenians as there are uber anti-semites who want to expell the Jews to the sea...a small number of both relatively speaking. This fight is being fueled by the extreme who want to position their man on deck for the end of days.

But both Jews and Arabs are perfectly capable of living side by side and in peace...they've done it throughout history and in they do it today, there are over 2 Million Arabs living in Israel right now.

Giving credence to the statement bolsters the positions of the radicals on both sides...and does nothing to help construct a meaningful solution.

-spence

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the entire statement is bunk, here's my typical long winded response. It's so humid my fingers are sticking to the keyboard, and I can't get them free

Put simply, it's not an objetive statement. It's a wedge intended to influence people to one side only.

Isn't that the point of the discussion, to decide which side we should support?

Originally Posted by spence

On that basis alone I reject it's value, because I don't want to be manupulated. by someone with an agenda.

Manipulated? Agenda? Your opinon, as well as mine and all the other in this discussion won't matter one iota in the decision making process. If you want to debate the subject at least be ibtellecutualy honest.

Originally Posted by spence

It's unfortunate that our Puritan roots so easily push us into black or white decisions...but the real world is quite gray.

Black and white? The quote you are referring to isn't about black and white its about determining who is the responsible party for the current hostilities. But lets assume for a minute that we are trying to determine, who is right and who is wrong. what's wrong with that. Isn't that the real question anyway? We should support whomever we think is right. That's got nothing to do with out Puritan roots, my family came here long after the puritans and their mores have no influence over my positions. Its simply a matter of determining what is right for our country.

Originally Posted by spence

The reality is that the majority of Christian Arabs in the region support Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance organization formed in response to Israeli occupation.

You better go check your polling numbers again. The vast majority of the Marionite Christians in Lebabnon seem to support he Israeli side in the currnt imbroglio. The Marionite Christians fought the Hezbolla for years and years.

Originally Posted by spence

Additionally, Hezbolla provides social and health programs for a very large population. This is in stark contrast to the holocost scenario presented in the statement.

And how many of theos grateful recipients of their largesse are Jews? Seems to me the only thing thay have been doing for Jews is lobbing rockets at them.

[QUOTE=spence]That doesn't mean they're your perfect next door neighbor, certainly they're guilty of horrific acts. But Israel doesn't exactly have a clear record either, and from an Arab perspective...it's worse![/Quote}

Why do we have to lok at it from an Arab perspective? We should be trying to be objective about it.

Originally Posted by spence

More to the point.

I believe that there are just as many uber Zionists who want to take all of the West Bank from the Palestenians as there are uber anti-semites who want to expell the Jews to the sea...a small number of both relatively speaking. This fight is being fueled by the extreme who want to position their man on deck for the end of days.

In cae you missed the fact, the jews have withdrawn from the Gaza and were in the process of withdrawing from the west bank. So I guess those ultrazionists aren't represented byt he Israeli Government.

Originally Posted by spence

But both Jews and Arabs are perfectly capable of living side by side and in peace...they've done it throughout history and in they do it today, there are over 2 Million Arabs living in Israel right now.

Thanks you for proving my point. The jews are obviously willing to live with the arabs, its the arabs that want to crush the jews.

Originally Posted by spence

Giving credence to the statement bolsters the positions of the radicals on both sides...and does nothing to help construct a meaningful solution.

How do "construct a meaningful solution" with someone whoe expressed desire is to kill you?

[stormfish]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.

I was thinking of something very simular MM. But I suggested Isreal relocating to the US-Mexican Border. If that be the case then our borders would be safe from illegal Immigrants.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Right on, if Hezbolla would knock off the bull %$%$%$%$ Israel would have no reason to be doing what they are doing now. Israel doesnt want this crap, but in thier eyes they have no choice but to take action.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Look at it this way, if Hezbolla layed down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their arms there would be another holocost. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Stop quoting bad talk show hosts.

[Skip N]

Im starting to wonder if some of you guys would've had trouble taking sides during WWII.

I can just hear Spence: well yeah Hitler is taking over half of Europe and slaughtering Jews, but he's done so much for Germany and restored confidence in the German people, so maybe he's just misunderstood and not an evil man like most assume

Once you recognize that radical islam and groups such as Hezbolah, Al Queada and Hamas are the new form of Nazism, it will be much easier for you to see the pure evil in these people, and stop making excuses for them. They are pure evil blood thirsty killers, and they would happily come into your house and mine and slaughter us as we sleep. Still wanna make excuses for these little scumbags?

They all need to die.

Have a good day....

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Once you recognize that radical islam and groups such as Hezbolah, Al Queada and Hamas are the new form of Nazism, it will be much easier for you to see the pure evil in these people, and stop making excuses for them.

Skippy, Skippy, Skippy...

First off you're comparing apples and oranges.

Second, this isn't about making excuses...it's about an appreciation for the real root causes of the issues we face.

If a suicide bomber attacks the local coffee shop, do you respond by wishing to simply kill all muslims...

...or do you also ask yourself, what would drive a person to do this?

It's not as simple as good and evil, which is why we're not winning the "war on terrorisim".

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

Skippy, Skippy, Skippy...


If a suicide bomber attacks the local coffee shop, do you respond by wishing to simply kill all muslims...

-spence

Who the hell ever said to go kill ALL muslims? I support the killing of RADICAL muslims who wish to do me and others harm. Most people don't have an issue with peaceful muslims. Its the radical brain washed ones I and most people have issue with.

I know you think myself and anyone who supports the war on radical Islam wants all Muslims wiped off the map, but you know for a fact this isnt the case. Typical spin from the lefties

And maybe if other countries other than the US, Israel and Britian gave a rats ass about taking down radical islam and terroists we'd be alot further along in this war on terror. The rest of the world sits back and kisses the asses of these muslim countries that support terror. kinda like you! You'd rather we sit back and talk to to these thugs, the only thing they understand is FORCE. I know liberals hate to use force, but sometimes when you face a pure evil enemy, you have no choice but to use heavy force.

We either confront radical Islam head on now, or we'll be forced to deal with them again down the road, maybe after another 9/11 or two? they are NOT going away anytime soon unless we take the fight to them. If we dont, they'll be waiting to strike us again and again.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

We either confront radical Islam head on now, or we'll be forced to deal with them again down the road, maybe after another 9/11 or two?

But Skipper, we're not "confronting" radical Islam at all, quite the contrary...we're doing much to empower it.

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by spence

If a suicide bomber attacks the local coffee shop, do you respond by wishing to simply kill all muslims...

-spence

If I had been waiting in line and the coffee was good.... Yes!



Skip! Spence!

[stormfish]

Isreal is in conflict with Hezbollah at the moment but let's not forget about Hamas. Isreal primary objective now is obviously to decentralize Hezbollah and 'with success to intimidate Hamas' (secondary objective). It's very unlikely Hamas and Hezbollah will join forces for they are rival tribes.

There will never be peace with Isreal and the Arab World. Grudge between the two is inevitable! There's a lot of Muslims to take out compared to Isrealites. Only thing keeping Isreal up is that they have big guns.

If the U.S. continue operations in the Middle East then there will be a WWIII, it's just a matter of time.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stormfish

There will never be peace with Isreal and the Arab World. Grudge between the two is inevitable!

It's that attitude that leads to rampant violence and dehumanization.

This is America, we're supposed to be more optimistic

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Skippy, Skippy, Skippy...

First off you're comparing apples and oranges.

Second, this isn't about making excuses...it's about an appreciation for the real root causes of the issues we face.

If a suicide bomber attacks the local coffee shop, do you respond by wishing to simply kill all muslims...

...or do you also ask yourself, what would drive a person to do this?

It's not as simple as good and evil, which is why we're not winning the "war on terrorisim".

-spence

Onyl the ones who vow to do it again. And there is plenty of them.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Onyl the ones who vow to do it again. And there is plenty of them.

Unless you can stop the flow of new recruits, there will always be plenty.

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by spence

Unless you can stop the flow of new recruits, there will always be plenty.

-spence

and how is this done? seriously?